Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
53 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

Barrage» Forums » General

Subject: Where is spot UV? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Bernhard W
Australia
Queensland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MetalPirate wrote:
WisniaPL wrote:
During campaign they said that they won't sell at Speil if production of Barrage will be late.

Where did they say that?

If the retail version is ready for sale in October, I bet that it will be sold at the biggest game fair in the world. No publisher can afford to miss that opportunity.

You will have to work a long way down through the KS comments, but you'll find it there:

Quote:
Bernhard, we offer a 6 month exclusive. The six months starts from the first delivered copies (the overall delivery process should take two weeks, keeping all the production short and compact). If, by any reasons, we fail to deliver by april 2019, that would simply mean the 6 month would last till or after Essen. That's it.

We are still working on retail agreements with worldwide partners and this topic is paramount for us. No delivery by april, no launch at essen/lucca. Why would we ruin our main selling point for a bunch of copies sold at fairs?

What do we offer is our commitment, first of all, to deliver in time - and all the production/logistics decisions we made (and a lot of people didn't got at the start) were taken in order to have the least possible waste of time. On the other hand, if we can't deliver by April... the 6 month will last starting from May, or June, or whenever you backers will get your game.

R.

No delivery by april, no launch at essen/lucca.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jérôme
Netherlands
Eindhoven
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That’s the most ridiculous exclusive ever offered. Time as a luxury commodity...

shake

Who cares about playing their game six months before others?
Well, at least I don’t. I just want Cranio to keep their other promises and deliver a premium product.

Admittedly, it sure looks good on the latest pictures even though it’s unforgivable that the Rietveld-Schröder house was omitted without any notice. I’ll try to refrain from further comments until I have the actual game in my hands.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bernhard W
Australia
Queensland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cranio just confirmed that
Quote:
there is no UV spot on the 3D map.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthias M
Germany
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In the same way, I expect them to break the 6 month exclusivitiy promise which Bernhard cited above.

Maybe they will delay normal FLGS sales to December, but I simply cannot imagine that Cranio will abstain from selling Barrage in Essen.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bernhard W
Australia
Queensland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MetalPirate wrote:
In the same way, I expect them to break the 6 month exclusivitiy promise which Bernhard cited above.

Maybe they will delay normal FLGS sales to December, but I simply cannot imagine that Cranio will abstain from selling Barrage in Essen.

They dodged again to give a clear answer about the Spiel release:
Quote:
...we tried our best to keep the delivery date to backers as close as possible. The release of the game in distribution will depend also on the partners in each country, anyway we should produce the localized versions between July and August, so they will be available probably by the end of the year, not before.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sander Schippers
Netherlands
flag msg tools
Well i am 100% convinced they sell it at Spiel Essen 2019.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Becq
United States
Cerritos
California
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Cranio CreationsCreatorSuperbacker
29 minutes ago

Hi White Winston, it is not me to take this final decision, but it will be most probably that we will present and sell the game in Essen. However, the availability of the game in the stores is something totally different. Giuliano

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Brooks
United States
Katy
TX
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Becq wrote:
Quote:
Cranio CreationsCreatorSuperbacker
29 minutes ago

Hi White Winston, it is not me to take this final decision, but it will be most probably that we will present and sell the game in Essen. However, the availability of the game in the stores is something totally different. Giuliano



I personally agree with Essen not being retail. And the campaign always said the game would be sold at Essen. So if the retail version is only available through distribution 6 months from when the last backer is sent their game, aside from copies sold at Essen, I'm not sure they're defying anything previously said.

From Risks & Challenges section:
"Another content that we gonna give you is the exclusive 6 months of gameplay.
We are not going to sell copies to retailers in campaign nor immediately after the campaign ended.
Retailers will wait 6 months after that we sent last copy to our last backer.
We want to assure you backers an exclusive content for 6 months."
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Becq
United States
Cerritos
California
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
You could also argue that while selling to people at Essen might not count as 'retail', those buyers are not backers and therefore those sales still violates "backer exclusive content for 6 months".

I don't consider that a big deal, but they are going against what they said they would do.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tilou
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
Frisches wrote:

"Another content that we gonna give you is the exclusive 6 months of gameplay.
We are not going to sell copies to retailers in campaign nor immediately after the campaign ended.
Retailers will wait 6 months after that we sent last copy to our last backer.
We want to assure you backers an exclusive content for 6 months."


Those are two different things.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Becq
United States
Cerritos
California
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
tilouboy wrote:
Frisches wrote:

"Another content that we gonna give you is the exclusive 6 months of gameplay.
We are not going to sell copies to retailers in campaign nor immediately after the campaign ended.
Retailers will wait 6 months after that we sent last copy to our last backer.
We want to assure you backers an exclusive content for 6 months."


Those are two different things.

I'd say three things, depending on how you group them, but they promised:
* that they wouldn't sell to retailers during or "immediately after" the campaign
* that retailers would be unable to sell for 6 months after the last backer copy was shipped
* that the game would be exclusive to backers for 6 months.

Selling at Essen doesn't violate the first two bullet points, but *does* violate the third.

Again, not a huge problem to me, but this was a specific selling point they made that matters a great deal to some people, and they have a point.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Brooks
United States
Katy
TX
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Becq wrote:
You could also argue that while selling to people at Essen might not count as 'retail', those buyers are not backers and therefore those sales still violates "backer exclusive content for 6 months".

I don't consider that a big deal, but they are going against what they said they would do.


But it always said to my recollection that the retail (version of the) game would debut for sale at Essen.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Becq
United States
Cerritos
California
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Frisches wrote:
Becq wrote:
You could also argue that while selling to people at Essen might not count as 'retail', those buyers are not backers and therefore those sales still violates "backer exclusive content for 6 months".

I don't consider that a big deal, but they are going against what they said they would do.


But it always said to my recollection that the retail (version of the) game would debut for sale at Essen.

The difference is that selling at Essen was an announced *plan*, while the 6 month exclusivity was a sales *pledge*. Given that production was delayed, they've reached a point where they can't satisfy both their announced plan and the contract they made with their backers -- which means their choice is between losing future sales at Essen (by not selling there) or angering backers because they broke their contract (and losing the trust of some portion of their backers).

I think if I were them, I would have seriously considered changing plans to demo and take *preorders* at Essen, for delivery the week that the 6 month exclusivity ends. That way they can sell at Essen without violating their promised exclusivity.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Brooks
United States
Katy
TX
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Becq wrote:

The difference is that selling at Essen was an announced *plan*, while the 6 month exclusivity was a sales *pledge*. Given that production was delayed, they've reached a point where they can't satisfy both their announced plan and the contract they made with their backers -- which means their choice is between losing future sales at Essen (by not selling there) or angering backers because they broke their contract (and losing the trust of some portion of their backers).

I think if I were them, I would have seriously considered changing plans to demo and take *preorders* at Essen, for delivery the week that the 6 month exclusivity ends. That way they can sell at Essen without violating their promised exclusivity.


Agree to disagree.

I don't think they're doing anything wrong by selling it at Essen or explicitly going against what they said previously.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tilou
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
Frisches wrote:
Becq wrote:

The difference is that selling at Essen was an announced *plan*, while the 6 month exclusivity was a sales *pledge*. Given that production was delayed, they've reached a point where they can't satisfy both their announced plan and the contract they made with their backers -- which means their choice is between losing future sales at Essen (by not selling there) or angering backers because they broke their contract (and losing the trust of some portion of their backers).

I think if I were them, I would have seriously considered changing plans to demo and take *preorders* at Essen, for delivery the week that the 6 month exclusivity ends. That way they can sell at Essen without violating their promised exclusivity.


Agree to disagree.

I don't think they're doing anything wrong by selling it at Essen or explicitly going against what they said previously.


How is it compatible with "exclusive content for backers"?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bernhard W
Australia
Queensland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Frisches wrote:
Becq wrote:
Quote:
Cranio CreationsCreatorSuperbacker
29 minutes ago

Hi White Winston, it is not me to take this final decision, but it will be most probably that we will present and sell the game in Essen. However, the availability of the game in the stores is something totally different. Giuliano



I personally agree with Essen not being retail. And the campaign always said the game would be sold at Essen. So if the retail version is only available through distribution 6 months from when the last backer is sent their game, aside from copies sold at Essen, I'm not sure they're defying anything previously said.

From Risks & Challenges section:
"Another content that we gonna give you is the exclusive 6 months of gameplay.
We are not going to sell copies to retailers in campaign nor immediately after the campaign ended.
Retailers will wait 6 months after that we sent last copy to our last backer.
We want to assure you backers an exclusive content for 6 months."

Cranio mentioned in the KS comments
"No delivery by april, no launch at essen/lucca. Why would we ruin our main selling point for a bunch of copies sold at fairs?"

After the latest comment by Giuliani though, everything they said during the campaign seems meaningless (this was in regard to 3mm cardboard thickness):
"Riccardo only made an enthusiastic comments about this on BGG but, unfortunately, without having the final go from the production team".
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jérôme
Netherlands
Eindhoven
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Makes me wonder what else was enthusiastically said without a final go from the production team...
 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Becq
United States
Cerritos
California
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
It appears as though spot UV on the 3d board was enthusiastically said (on the main KS page!) without a final go from the production team, too...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthias Habelitz
Germany
Zweibrücken
Reinland-Pfalz
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Well I have a diffenrent sight - but I allready played the prototype last Essen.

I don't know what Stretch goal any Kickstarter I backed had in detail - and I think if the publisher had a chance to fulfill all stretch goals they'll do - so what I know about Barrage is, that I'll get a great game probalbly the best game of the year, probably a game that hits my Top 10 of all time, probably the best game of all times. Furthermore I know I'm getting an awesome production - so I'm fine with that

If I am right this was Cranios 1st Kickstarter - I think they learned a lot discoveres a lot of Problems which they didn't see coming and I hope they did their homework for further projects...
If anyone backed and knew that it's their 1st one he/she knew about the risk and where fine with it by pledgeing

Some final thoughts 6 month exclusive is nice, 3 month is fine too as long as it isn't like TMG did (Yokohama) where a friend of mine had his retail version with german language before I recieved my Kickstarter Version...
Or like it had been with CO2 where copies in Essen had been sold before my localized Version arrived in January from Giochix.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rafal Kowalski
msg tools
Matthias19281 wrote:
Well I have a diffenrent sight - but I allready played the prototype last Essen.

I don't know what Stretch goal any Kickstarter I backed had in detail - and I think if the publisher had a chance to fulfill all stretch goals they'll do - so what I know about Barrage is, that I'll get a great game probalbly the best game of the year, probably a game that hits my Top 10 of all time, probably the best game of all times. Furthermore I know I'm getting an awesome production - so I'm fine with that

If I am right this was Cranios 1st Kickstarter - I think they learned a lot discoveres a lot of Problems which they didn't see coming and I hope they did their homework for further projects...
If anyone backed and knew that it's their 1st one he/she knew about the risk and where fine with it by pledgeing

Some final thoughts 6 month exclusive is nice, 3 month is fine too as long as it isn't like TMG did (Yokohama) where a friend of mine had his retail version with german language before I recieved my Kickstarter Version...
Or like it had been with CO2 where copies in Essen had been sold before my localized Version arrived in January from Giochix.



Then why back it at kickstarter? We could get it cheaper at retail but we were told we will get this awsome, deluxe 3d map with spot uv etc.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Becq
United States
Cerritos
California
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
WisniaPL wrote:
Then why back it at kickstarter? We could get it cheaper at retail but we were told we will get this awsome, deluxe 3d map with spot uv etc.

Note that there were some additional features included in the top pledge -- through most of the campaign the 3d board was it, but during the last couple of hours while many of us were asleep they added the metal coins and some KSE CEOs. I think that may have ended up being part of the problem; they charged too little (~$23) for the coins, 3d board, and additional punchboard. So they started reducing costs...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bernhard W
Australia
Queensland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Matthias19281 wrote:
If I am right this was Cranios 1st Kickstarter - I think they learned a lot discoveres a lot of Problems which they didn't see coming and I hope they did their homework for further projects...
If anyone backed and knew that it's their 1st one he/she knew about the risk and where fine with it by pledgeing

I can't understand how so many are happy that a boardgames publisher with 10 years of experience and over 60 published games is free to approach a new market like Kickstarter with the slogan it's our first KS, we will make lots of mistakes, it might not be what we said, but we'll do it better next time.

There are so many ways a KS creator can research the KS basics to keep backers happy. It doesn't look like Cranio prepared this KS properly at all. They didn't communicate internally (huh?), left backers in the dark, broke promises, now they are throwing their initial KS campaign creator team under the bus (they were enthusiastic when they promised 3mm punchboards) ... all good, it's their first.

I expected a high quality product because of their retail experience, where I thought Cranio will make all production related choices before KS launch, what will be in the box and at what quality. Because that's what an experienced game producer should be good at. That did not happen, and it's not what you should expect at all from an experienced company, 1st time selling on KS or again at retail.

It almost sounds like some would have been happy with a KS prototype quality 1st edition because the game play is awesome. They can then fix it all for retail in the 2nd edition, no worries.
6 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Becq
United States
Cerritos
California
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
BeloW06 wrote:
I can't understand how so many are happy that a boardgames publisher with 10 years of experience and over 60 published games is free to approach a new market like Kickstarter with the slogan it's our first KS, we will make lots of mistakes, it might not be what we said, but we'll do it better next time.

There are so many ways a KS creator can research the KS basics to keep backers happy. It doesn't look like Cranio prepared this KS properly at all. They didn't communicate internally (huh?), left backers in the dark, broke promises, now they are throwing their initial KS campaign creator team under the bus (they were enthusiastic when they promised 3mm punchboards) ... all good, it's their first.

I expected a high quality product because of their retail experience, where I thought Cranio will make all production related choices before KS launch, what will be in the box and at what quality. Because that's what an experienced game producer should be good at. That did not happen, and it's not what you should expect at all from an experienced company, 1st time selling on KS or again at retail.

It almost sounds like some would have been happy with a KS prototype quality 1st edition because the game play is awesome. They can then fix it all for retail in the 2nd edition, no worries.

I think you're misrepresenting them a bit. There are many gamers who would be just as happy playing a good game with cardboard chits as with detailed miniatures; they care much more (or even exclusively) about the gameplay, and the aesthetics are unimportant. So for that type of gamer, the stretch goals were fluff, and now the game is still a great game but a little less fluffy. They may not have even paid attention to the campaign and the stretch goals added therein, so the fact the Cranio backed out of some of those stretch goals is also irrelevant to them. What they are getting is a productized version of the prototype that they decided to buy into. The extra polish that *could* have been added but wasn't doesn't matter to them. And they are right, in their own way, to feel that way.

You're upset that Cranio made promises (or in some cases, Cranio's employees made promises that the company didn't support) about what they would do to make the game look and feel *awesome*, and you feel like they broke a contract with you. And they did, at least in some of those cases, and in other cases you were mislead. You are right, in your own way, to feel that way.

Then there are a bunch of us somewhere on the spectrum between those two extremes. I've seen some posts that said they were *glad* the 3d may wouldn't have spot UV, because they thought the glare would be distracting. I like things like spot UV, because even though they don't affect game play at all, they do make the board look flashier, and I take pride in my games. I've stated elsewhere that I'm actually glad that the contract tiles were made thinner, because I feel that the thinner contracts will enhance playability in the form of more easily stacked tiles -- though the durability and usability of the *wheel* is a definite concern.

I think we're past the point where further changes can be made, though. So I feel as though the best I can do is wait and see how the game feels when I get may hands on it, then review it accordingly. I'm hoping that that review will be summed up something along the lines of "A great game with decent components" instead of "This game had so much potential, but substandard components ruined it for me." But we'll see.

The biggest shame is that Cranio's reputation is likely to suffer, with a lot of people becoming reluctant to believe promises they make. This may be their last KS, unless the delivered game and component quality turns out to be better than we fear it is.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bernhard W
Australia
Queensland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Becq wrote:
I think you're misrepresenting them a bit. There are many gamers who would be just as happy playing a good game with cardboard chits as with detailed miniatures; they care much more (or even exclusively) about the gameplay, and the aesthetics are unimportant. So for that type of gamer, the stretch goals were fluff, and now the game is still a great game but a little less fluffy. They may not have even paid attention to the campaign and the stretch goals added therein, so the fact the Cranio backed out of some of those stretch goals is also irrelevant to them. What they are getting is a productized version of the prototype that they decided to buy into. The extra polish that *could* have been added but wasn't doesn't matter to them. And they are right, in their own way, to feel that way.

You're upset that Cranio made promises (or in some cases, Cranio's employees made promises that the company didn't support) about what they would do to make the game look and feel *awesome*, and you feel like they broke a contract with you. And they did, at least in some of those cases, and in other cases you were mislead. You are right, in your own way, to feel that way.

Then there are a bunch of us somewhere on the spectrum between those two extremes. I've seen some posts that said they were *glad* the 3d may wouldn't have spot UV, because they thought the glare would be distracting. I like things like spot UV, because even though they don't affect game play at all, they do make the board look flashier, and I take pride in my games. I've stated elsewhere that I'm actually glad that the contract tiles were made thinner, because I feel that the thinner contracts will enhance playability in the form of more easily stacked tiles -- though the durability and usability of the *wheel* is a definite concern.

I think we're past the point where further changes can be made, though. So I feel as though the best I can do is wait and see how the game feels when I get may hands on it, then review it accordingly. I'm hoping that that review will be summed up something along the lines of "A great game with decent components" instead of "This game had so much potential, but substandard components ruined it for me." But we'll see.

The biggest shame is that Cranio's reputation is likely to suffer, with a lot of people becoming reluctant to believe promises they make. This may be their last KS, unless the delivered game and component quality turns out to be better than we fear it is.

That makes a lot of sense.

The promises Cranio made, especially the 3mm thick deluxe EGG/TMG cardboard quality that fills that huge (core) box taking up the space of 2 other games on my shelf on top of the other bling drove me to back Barrage.

I have enough worker placement games with tight resource management that are at Barrage's core. It was the board interaction that kept my interest. I'm sure it would have not been enough to buy it at retail. I'll be happy with it in the end, and already invested too much time commenting to get the quality that I thought Cranio will deliver to back out, if that were an option.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Crispin
United States
Wilmington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I did not back Barrage because I was not overly excited about the 6 month exclusivity being either practical or particularly interesting to me. I will say Cranio main failing was good communication. Often current BGG denizens start imagining the very worst possible outcome if not given a great deal of positive feedback to reassure them.

Cranio has during the last decade plus been very good about delivering interesting and worthwhile games and they have not been a source of significant support complaints or in general been at all dodgy. It does seem that this KS has not been their finest hour.

It is odd how much this has mirrored the issues with Giochix release of CO2. They are another publisher I consider reliable and trustworthy, yet they caused a great deal of unhappiness with a very poor handling of communication on the back end of the campaign.

An Italian cultural issue, a language issue? In both cases I am willing to give them some slack since I am sure they are not out to cheat anyone but it would be nice if they want to do future campaigns that they acknowledged that they did not really understand how to manage expectations on a KS campaign.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.