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Subject: Moderator Gone Wild! rss

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Michael Sosa
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Octavian has been deleting posts like a maniac, first time in all my years of using BGG where I am genuinely annoyed at this site.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2181370/how-about-new-and-b...

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2174984/i-thought-we-were-p...

How can you have a discussion when this guy deletes just about everything? I had two posts deleted: the first I don't know why, the second because I added a complaint about the moderator.
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Michael Sosa
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So I received a response from Octavian as to why my original post was removed:

"..was removed for derailing because it raises a number of tangentially related topics that, if responded to, would take the thread off-topic."

The thread was about the game Scramble from Africa, which GMT removed due to complaints from some that it glorified colonialism or imperialism. This is an old complaint. I made comparisons to other games like Struggle of Empire, Navegador, and to the workers in Puerto Rico. I said I chose not to play religious games and stupid sex games (I didn't say it but I was thinking of Cards Against Humanity). I said I hoped another company would pick it up.

I cannot help but feel Octavian is being way to aggressive in policing this thread.

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As a participant in both those threads I think it has kept the discussion on topic.
It could be worth starting another thread comparing Scramble for Africa to other games that deal with colonisation and similar topics.
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Rich Keiser
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Seems like all those deleted comments were not only to be expected, but also justified.

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Richard B
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Have been refreshing that thread as the comments get deleted in seconds (and now the game title itself has been deleted from the game’s page completely); and the majority of the comments were both about the game & civil (some were not of course & have no issue with those which were deleted).

It’s a bit concerning that in all the years I have been involved in the community I’ve never seen such heavy handed moderation

This is the thread btw, since the game can no longer be searched for: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2174984/scramble-africa-i-t...
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Belisarius88 wrote:
So I received a response from Octavian as to why my original post was removed:

"..was removed for derailing because it raises a number of tangentially related topics that, if responded to, would take the thread off-topic."

The thread was about the game Scramble from Africa, which GMT removed due to complaints from some that it glorified colonialism or imperialism. This is an old complaint. I made comparisons to other games like Struggle of Empire, Navegador, and to the workers in Puerto Rico. I said I chose not to play religious games and stupid sex games (I didn't say it but I was thinking of Cards Against Humanity). I said I hoped another company would pick it up.

I cannot help but feel Octavian is being way to aggressive in policing this thread.

Just because they’re things you want to talk about or points you want to make doesn’t make them on topic.

Taking that thread down a rabbit hole of whataboutisms related to other games is absolutely disruptive.
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Matthew M
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birch97 wrote:


This is the thread btw, since the game can no longer be searched for: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2174984/scramble-africa-i-t...

FYI this is unrelated to forum moderation. The game does not currently have a publisher and has no current plan to get published, so the game entry has been folded into the Unpublished Prototype entry.

I am uninvolved in that decision making - I learned about it the same way everyone else did.

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Marc Nelson Jr.
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Octavian wrote:
birch97 wrote:


This is the thread btw, since the game can no longer be searched for: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2174984/scramble-africa-i-t...

FYI this is unrelated to forum moderation. The game does not currently have a publisher and has no current plan to get published, so the game entry has been folded into the Unpublished Prototype entry.


Right...

It adds insult to injury when you won't even own up to your actions. If your policy is to make BGG a place where only certain opinions can be expressed, then just say so. Don't hide behind supposedly objective criteria.

Your intent is pretty clear - why beat around the bush?
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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petegs wrote:
As a participant in both those threads I think it has kept the discussion on topic.
It could be worth starting another thread comparing Scramble for Africa to other games that deal with colonisation and similar topics.

Funny, that...

I started a thread wondering whether Imperial Struggle would fall victim to the same concerns about colonialism that got Scramble for Africa pulled - that thread got deleted for "trolling". And if you want to discuss Scramble for Africa, you'll now have to do it in the Unpublished Prototype entry, since its entry has now gone down the memory hole.

Once again, the pretext of "civility" and "conversation" has been exposed as "shut up, he explained".
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Matthew M
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marcnelsonjr wrote:


It adds insult to injury when you won't even own up to your actions. If your policy is to make BGG a place where only certain opinions can be expressed, then just say so. Don't hide behind supposedly objective criteria.

Your intent is pretty clear - why beat around the bush?

Our intent is to allow the topic to be discussed and to maintain a space where that can happen uninterrupted.

Contentious topics are easily derailed. We remove comments that antagonize others, seek to intentionally derail the topic, are well intended but lead to unintentionally derailing the topic, are dismissive to the topic, or are otherwise disruptive - all in the interest of keeping a space for the main discussion to continue.

Without heavy moderation the thread would have been thrown off topic in the first couple pages and would never have recovered.

Quote:
I started a thread wondering whether Imperial Struggle would fall victim to the same concerns about colonialism that got Scramble for Africa pulled - that thread got deleted for "trolling".

Yes - hijacking the forum of an unrelated game to complain about GMT's decision is unwelcome.
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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Octavian wrote:
[q="marcnelsonjr"]We remove comments that antagonize others, seek to intentionally derail the topic, are well intended but lead to unintentionally derailing the topic, are dismissive to the topic, or are otherwise disruptive - all in the interest of keeping a space for the main discussion to continue.

Except you don't. One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants.
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
Octavian wrote:
birch97 wrote:


This is the thread btw, since the game can no longer be searched for: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2174984/scramble-africa-i-t...

FYI this is unrelated to forum moderation. The game does not currently have a publisher and has no current plan to get published, so the game entry has been folded into the Unpublished Prototype entry.


Right...

It adds insult to injury when you won't even own up to your actions. If your policy is to make BGG a place where only certain opinions can be expressed, then just say so. Don't hide behind supposedly objective criteria.

Your intent is pretty clear - why beat around the bush?
What? He literally has no involvement in that decision.

The operation of BGG does, in fact, involve more than Octavian.
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Russ Williams
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
Except you don't. One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants.
Do you seriously believe this? That people with political/social views similar to Octavian can literally antagonize all they want with no moderation repercussions by Octavian or other admins?
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russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Except you don't. One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants.
Do you seriously believe this? That people with political/social views similar to Octavian can literally antagonize all they want with no moderation repercussions by Octavian or other admins?

It's not really happening in this case, but yes, that's a pretty well known fact, Russ, as you have seen discussed several times before.
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motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Except you don't. One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants.
Do you seriously believe this? That people with political/social views similar to Octavian can literally antagonize all they want with no moderation repercussions by Octavian or other admins?

It's not really happening in this case, but yes, that's a pretty well known fact, Russ, as you have seen discussed several times before.
So what, you're saying that I'm somehow confused or misremembering all the times I've seen people with political/social views similar to Octavian be moderated for antagonizing posts? You've really not seen it happen?
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russ wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Except you don't. One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants.
Do you seriously believe this? That people with political/social views similar to Octavian can literally antagonize all they want with no moderation repercussions by Octavian or other admins?

It's not really happening in this case, but yes, that's a pretty well known fact, Russ, as you have seen discussed several times before.
So what, you're saying that I'm somehow confused or misremembering all the times I've seen people with political/social views similar to Octavian be moderated for antagonizing posts? You've really not seen it happen?

Okay, maybe not never, but there are plenty that fit that description that do tons of antagonizing on this site without their posts being removed from threads where other posts have been removed.
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motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Except you don't. One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants.
Do you seriously believe this? That people with political/social views similar to Octavian can literally antagonize all they want with no moderation repercussions by Octavian or other admins?

It's not really happening in this case, but yes, that's a pretty well known fact, Russ, as you have seen discussed several times before.
So what, you're saying that I'm somehow confused or misremembering all the times I've seen people with political/social views similar to Octavian be moderated for antagonizing posts? You've really not seen it happen?

Okay, maybe not never, but there are plenty that fit that description that do tons of antagonizing on this site without their posts being removed from threads where other posts have been removed.
huh... guess all those notices for pissy posts of mine that were removed for being... well... pissy, were just my imagination. who knew I was that creative?
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DragonsDream wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Except you don't. One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants.
Do you seriously believe this? That people with political/social views similar to Octavian can literally antagonize all they want with no moderation repercussions by Octavian or other admins?

It's not really happening in this case, but yes, that's a pretty well known fact, Russ, as you have seen discussed several times before.
So what, you're saying that I'm somehow confused or misremembering all the times I've seen people with political/social views similar to Octavian be moderated for antagonizing posts? You've really not seen it happen?

Okay, maybe not never, but there are plenty that fit that description that do tons of antagonizing on this site without their posts being removed from threads where other posts have been removed.
huh... guess all those notices for pissy posts of mine that were removed for being... well... pissy, were just my imagination. who knew I was that creative?

Yeah, I would like to be a part of that other universe's narrative where my 40+ mod events were awards, complete with cash prizes and laurels.
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tumorous wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Octavian wrote:
birch97 wrote:


This is the thread btw, since the game can no longer be searched for: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2174984/scramble-africa-i-t...

FYI this is unrelated to forum moderation. The game does not currently have a publisher and has no current plan to get published, so the game entry has been folded into the Unpublished Prototype entry.


Right...

It adds insult to injury when you won't even own up to your actions. If your policy is to make BGG a place where only certain opinions can be expressed, then just say so. Don't hide behind supposedly objective criteria.

Your intent is pretty clear - why beat around the bush?
What? He literally has no involvement in that decision.

The operation of BGG does, in fact, involve more than Octavian.

Here is a live-action shot of Waketavian derezzing several threads that don't align to his BELIEEEF SYSTEMS....


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Said as just another user of the site and one who doesn't do forum moderation:


Returning to the OP's topic:

I've taken a look at the thread. Yup, there are a fair few removed posts; early ones for derails, later ones for antagonism but the thread reads well and has stayed on topic. Two clear perspectives emerge and despite strong opinions, what's readable is respectful.

I think you're likely one of the early posts and based upon what you've said would have injected with some major discussions:

What games glorify colonialism - how do we define this (examples to discuss)?
What games wouldn't you play on religious or moral grounds?

These are great points to discuss and as a community I think we should and do, BUT this would have seriously derailed the OP's thread, IMO.

You've said your second post was removed because you were complaining about the previous moderation. That's clearly not the place and is disruptive, IMO. Here's the place - so thank you for posting here.

So while it's irritating to have your post removed and you clearly posted originally in good faith - I can see why your post was moderated and I think the outcome is a good bit of debate that sticks to the original thread's topic. The moderation was obviously not personal or related to the merits of what you posted; only when and where.

My advice: don't take it to heart or let it spoil your day. Take a breather and if you wish to create a new thread/geeklist discussing one of the topics you originally raised.

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DragonsDream wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Except you don't. One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants.
Do you seriously believe this? That people with political/social views similar to Octavian can literally antagonize all they want with no moderation repercussions by Octavian or other admins?

It's not really happening in this case, but yes, that's a pretty well known fact, Russ, as you have seen discussed several times before.
So what, you're saying that I'm somehow confused or misremembering all the times I've seen people with political/social views similar to Octavian be moderated for antagonizing posts? You've really not seen it happen?

Okay, maybe not never, but there are plenty that fit that description that do tons of antagonizing on this site without their posts being removed from threads where other posts have been removed.
huh... guess all those notices for pissy posts of mine that were removed for being... well... pissy, were just my imagination. who knew I was that creative?

Wasn’t going to name names, but the number of your posts that should have been deleted for antagonizing but aren’t is pretty high. And I’ve pointed out specific examples of yours multiple times.
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Russ Williams
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To be clear, I agree that there is a handful of users who seem to often make what seem to me to be rude antagonizing comments which don't always get deleted (and some of them have political/social views similar to Octavian - but I don't know about others).

I was disagreeing with the sweeping assertion that "One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants."
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I came expecting pictures of drunken Octavian taking his shirt off, but all I got was another boring thread about moderation.
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Charles Boyung
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russ wrote:
To be clear, I agree that there is a handful of users who seem to often make what seem to me to be rude antagonizing comments which don't always get deleted (and some of them have political/social views similar to Octavian - but I don't know about others).

I was disagreeing with the sweeping assertion that "One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants."

That I can agree with - it definitely isn’t 100% for sure. I would argue, however, that those that disagree with his personal views DO get their posts, even innocuous ones, deleted FAR more often.
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cbazler wrote:
I came expecting pictures of drunken Octavian taking his shirt off, but all I got was another boring thread about moderation.

Oh, we are about to go live with those. Just trying to find the correct colored clamps that POP in the low lighting.

Neon... very tacky.

Cheap, clad gold... gauche.

Matte platinum... too GoT.


All ideas are welcome.

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