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Subject: Moderator Gone Wild! rss

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Rich Keiser
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motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
To be clear, I agree that there is a handful of users who seem to often make what seem to me to be rude antagonizing comments which don't always get deleted (and some of them have political/social views similar to Octavian - but I don't know about others).

I was disagreeing with the sweeping assertion that "One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants."


That I can agree with - it definitely isn’t 100% for sure. I would argue, however, that those that disagree with his personal views DO get their posts, even innocuous ones, deleted FAR more often.


Causation vs Correlation candidate.

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darthhugo wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
To be clear, I agree that there is a handful of users who seem to often make what seem to me to be rude antagonizing comments which don't always get deleted (and some of them have political/social views similar to Octavian - but I don't know about others).

I was disagreeing with the sweeping assertion that "One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants."


That I can agree with - it definitely isn’t 100% for sure. I would argue, however, that those that disagree with his personal views DO get their posts, even innocuous ones, deleted FAR more often.


Causation vs Correlation candidate.



You can make your comments all you want, but the facts are quite clear for anyone that isn't completely blinded by their ideologies. I agree with Octavian's personal beliefs on most things, but I'm still able to see things objectively, and definitely see an incredibly strong bias in how moderation is handled here.
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monkeyhandz wrote:
Said as just another user of the site and one who doesn't do forum moderation:


Returning to the OP's topic:

I've taken a look at the thread. Yup, there are a fair few removed posts; early ones for derails, later ones for antagonism but the thread reads well and has stayed on topic. Two clear perspectives emerge and despite strong opinions, what's readable is respectful.

I think you're likely one of the early posts and based upon what you've said would have injected with some major discussions:

What games glorify colonialism - how do we define this (examples to discuss)?
What games wouldn't you play on religious or moral grounds?

These are great points to discuss and as a community I think we should and do, BUT this would have seriously derailed the OP's thread, IMO.

You've said your second post was removed because you were complaining about the previous moderation. That's clearly not the place and is disruptive, IMO. Here's the place - so thank you for posting here.

So while it's irritating to have your post removed and you clearly posted originally in good faith - I can see why your post was moderated and I think the outcome is a good bit of debate that sticks to the original thread's topic. The moderation was obviously not personal or related to the merits of what you posted; only when and where.

My advice: don't take it to heart or let it spoil your day. Take a breather and if you wish to create a new thread/geeklist discussing one of the topics you originally raised.



Thank you for posting that Liam. A well-considered and thoughtful post. We could do with more like this.
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motoyugota wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Except you don't. One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants.

Do you seriously believe this? That people with political/social views similar to Octavian can literally antagonize all they want with no moderation repercussions by Octavian or other admins?


It's not really happening in this case, but yes, that's a pretty well known fact, Russ, as you have seen discussed several times before.

So what, you're saying that I'm somehow confused or misremembering all the times I've seen people with political/social views similar to Octavian be moderated for antagonizing posts? You've really not seen it happen?


Okay, maybe not never, but there are plenty that fit that description that do tons of antagonizing on this site without their posts being removed from threads where other posts have been removed.

huh... guess all those notices for pissy posts of mine that were removed for being... well... pissy, were just my imagination. who knew I was that creative?


Wasn’t going to name names, but the number of your posts that should have been deleted for antagonizing but aren’t is pretty high. And I’ve pointed out specific examples of yours multiple times.

I encourage you to red-x them. Mods aren't psychic and only know something is a problem if someone points it out.
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darthhugo wrote:
tumorous wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Octavian wrote:
birch97 wrote:


This is the thread btw, since the game can no longer be searched for: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2174984/scramble-africa-i-t...


FYI this is unrelated to forum moderation. The game does not currently have a publisher and has no current plan to get published, so the game entry has been folded into the Unpublished Prototype entry.



Right...

It adds insult to injury when you won't even own up to your actions. If your policy is to make BGG a place where only certain opinions can be expressed, then just say so. Don't hide behind supposedly objective criteria.

Your intent is pretty clear - why beat around the bush?

What? He literally has no involvement in that decision.

The operation of BGG does, in fact, involve more than Octavian.


Here is a live-action shot of Waketavian derezzing several threads that don't align to his BELIEEEF SYSTEMS....




thumbing this for no other reason than my Yes micro-badge might be revoked if I didn't
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motoyugota wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
To be clear, I agree that there is a handful of users who seem to often make what seem to me to be rude antagonizing comments which don't always get deleted (and some of them have political/social views similar to Octavian - but I don't know about others).

I was disagreeing with the sweeping assertion that "One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants."


That I can agree with - it definitely isn’t 100% for sure. I would argue, however, that those that disagree with his personal views DO get their posts, even innocuous ones, deleted FAR more often.


Causation vs Correlation candidate.



You can make your comments all you want, but the facts are quite clear for anyone that isn't completely blinded by their ideologies. I agree with Octavian's personal beliefs on most things, but I'm still able to see things objectively, and definitely see an incredibly strong bias in how moderation is handled here.

Do keep in mind that there is a non-zero chance that your personal biases might be contributing to your impression of events here.
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DragonsDream wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Except you don't. One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants.

Do you seriously believe this? That people with political/social views similar to Octavian can literally antagonize all they want with no moderation repercussions by Octavian or other admins?


It's not really happening in this case, but yes, that's a pretty well known fact, Russ, as you have seen discussed several times before.

So what, you're saying that I'm somehow confused or misremembering all the times I've seen people with political/social views similar to Octavian be moderated for antagonizing posts? You've really not seen it happen?


Okay, maybe not never, but there are plenty that fit that description that do tons of antagonizing on this site without their posts being removed from threads where other posts have been removed.

huh... guess all those notices for pissy posts of mine that were removed for being... well... pissy, were just my imagination. who knew I was that creative?


Wasn’t going to name names, but the number of your posts that should have been deleted for antagonizing but aren’t is pretty high. And I’ve pointed out specific examples of yours multiple times.

I encourage you to red-x them. Mods aren't psychic and only know something is a problem if someone points it out.


I do. They are not moderated.
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
[q="marcnelsonjr"]Except you don't. One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants.

Do you seriously believe this? That people with political/social views similar to Octavian can literally antagonize all they want with no moderation repercussions by Octavian or other admins?


It's not really happening in this case, but yes, that's a pretty well known fact, Russ, as you have seen discussed several times before.

So what, you're saying that I'm somehow confused or misremembering all the times I've seen people with political/social views similar to Octavian be moderated for antagonizing posts? You've really not seen it happen?


Okay, maybe not never, but there are plenty that fit that description that do tons of antagonizing on this site without their posts being removed from threads where other posts have been removed.

huh... guess all those notices for pissy posts of mine that were removed for being... well... pissy, were just my imagination. who knew I was that creative?


Wasn’t going to name names, but the number of your posts that should have been deleted for antagonizing but aren’t is pretty high. And I’ve pointed out specific examples of yours multiple times.

I encourage you to red-x them. Mods aren't psychic and only know something is a problem if someone points it out.


One Red-X does not a moderation make. PM'ing Octavian does not a moderation make. Sometimes, those two combined does not a moderation make.

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DragonsDream wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
tumorous wrote:
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Octavian wrote:
birch97 wrote:


This is the thread btw, since the game can no longer be searched for: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2174984/scramble-africa-i-t...


FYI this is unrelated to forum moderation. The game does not currently have a publisher and has no current plan to get published, so the game entry has been folded into the Unpublished Prototype entry.



Right...

It adds insult to injury when you won't even own up to your actions. If your policy is to make BGG a place where only certain opinions can be expressed, then just say so. Don't hide behind supposedly objective criteria.

Your intent is pretty clear - why beat around the bush?

What? He literally has no involvement in that decision.

The operation of BGG does, in fact, involve more than Octavian.


Here is a live-action shot of Waketavian derezzing several threads that don't align to his BELIEEEF SYSTEMS....




thumbing this for no other reason than my Yes micro-badge might be revoked if I didn't


I have had the opportunity to see Mr. Wakeman with this setup (gear) on more than one occassion... once getting to stand around 10' away. If I remember, his setup for AWBH was much leaner... as was he.

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I am once again flabbergasted by the fact that some members insist on trying to paint the moderation as equitable/fair when in fact it has repeatedly been stated that this kind of "fairness" is not the primary objective of the moderation! The moderation has a rather heavy pro-inclusionary (read: anti-exclusionary) bias as a matter of policy. There's no reason to pretend this isn't so!

Pete (wonders why this persists)
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plezercruz wrote:
I am once again flabbergasted by the fact that some members insist on trying to paint the moderation as equitable/fair when in fact it has repeatedly been stated that this kind of "fairness" is not the primary objective of the moderation! The moderation has a rather heavy pro-inclusionary (read: anti-exclusionary) bias as a matter of policy. There's no reason to pretend this isn't so!

Pete (wonders why this persists)

Perhaps because "inclusionary vs exclusionary" is a different issue from "liberal vs conservative".
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plezercruz wrote:
I am once again flabbergasted by the fact that some members insist on trying to paint the moderation as equitable/fair when in fact it has repeatedly been stated that this kind of "fairness" is not the primary objective of the moderation! The moderation has a rather heavy pro-inclusionary (read: anti-exclusionary) bias as a matter of policy. There's no reason to pretend this isn't so!

Pete (wonders why this persists)


Pete's Defs

Inclusionary - all things allowed

Exclusionary - some things not allowed.


I believe that the latter is what is occurring, as the former is just fantasy.


Oh, I misread your definitions... sure, this site is intentionally derezzing those comments that are trying to minimize certain opinions that were historically minimized. Yup.

OK, that's a good thing. Never denying that.


If I'm getting accused of supporting this type of moderation, then lock me up.




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grant5 wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
To be clear, I agree that there is a handful of users who seem to often make what seem to me to be rude antagonizing comments which don't always get deleted (and some of them have political/social views similar to Octavian - but I don't know about others).

I was disagreeing with the sweeping assertion that "One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants."


That I can agree with - it definitely isn’t 100% for sure. I would argue, however, that those that disagree with his personal views DO get their posts, even innocuous ones, deleted FAR more often.


Causation vs Correlation candidate.



You can make your comments all you want, but the facts are quite clear for anyone that isn't completely blinded by their ideologies. I agree with Octavian's personal beliefs on most things, but I'm still able to see things objectively, and definitely see an incredibly strong bias in how moderation is handled here.

Do keep in mind that there is a non-zero chance that your personal biases might be contributing to your impression of events here.


Ever hear of the pot calling the kettle black, Grant? You are the epitome of that phrase here.
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Grant
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motoyugota wrote:
grant5 wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
To be clear, I agree that there is a handful of users who seem to often make what seem to me to be rude antagonizing comments which don't always get deleted (and some of them have political/social views similar to Octavian - but I don't know about others).

I was disagreeing with the sweeping assertion that "One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants."


That I can agree with - it definitely isn’t 100% for sure. I would argue, however, that those that disagree with his personal views DO get their posts, even innocuous ones, deleted FAR more often.


Causation vs Correlation candidate.



You can make your comments all you want, but the facts are quite clear for anyone that isn't completely blinded by their ideologies. I agree with Octavian's personal beliefs on most things, but I'm still able to see things objectively, and definitely see an incredibly strong bias in how moderation is handled here.

Do keep in mind that there is a non-zero chance that your personal biases might be contributing to your impression of events here.


Ever hear of the pot calling the kettle black, Grant? You are the epitome of that phrase here.

Never claimed I wasn’t, but top notch deflection. We all view the world through our own lens. You just seem exceptionally unaware of yours.
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MODERATOR GONE WILD! (GONE WRONG!)

It sounds like a x-rated video crossed with a clickbait youtube video
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grant5 wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
grant5 wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
russ wrote:
To be clear, I agree that there is a handful of users who seem to often make what seem to me to be rude antagonizing comments which don't always get deleted (and some of them have political/social views similar to Octavian - but I don't know about others).

I was disagreeing with the sweeping assertion that "One side - the side you agree with - is free to antagonize all it wants."


That I can agree with - it definitely isn’t 100% for sure. I would argue, however, that those that disagree with his personal views DO get their posts, even innocuous ones, deleted FAR more often.


Causation vs Correlation candidate.



You can make your comments all you want, but the facts are quite clear for anyone that isn't completely blinded by their ideologies. I agree with Octavian's personal beliefs on most things, but I'm still able to see things objectively, and definitely see an incredibly strong bias in how moderation is handled here.

Do keep in mind that there is a non-zero chance that your personal biases might be contributing to your impression of events here.


Ever hear of the pot calling the kettle black, Grant? You are the epitome of that phrase here.

Never claimed I wasn’t, but top notch deflection. We all view the world through our own lens. You just seem exceptionally unaware of yours.


Complicated humans with concurrent, but conflicting views.

When one books enough years, they realize this is the norm and not the fantasy, fever-dream of young minds for ABSOLUTE consistency.

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Toenail21 wrote:
MODERATOR GONE WILD! (GONE WRONG!)

It sounds like a x-rated video crossed with a clickbait youtube video


In this case it would be "red x-rated"
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russ wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
I am once again flabbergasted by the fact that some members insist on trying to paint the moderation as equitable/fair when in fact it has repeatedly been stated that this kind of "fairness" is not the primary objective of the moderation! The moderation has a rather heavy pro-inclusionary (read: anti-exclusionary) bias as a matter of policy. There's no reason to pretend this isn't so!

Pete (wonders why this persists)

Perhaps because "inclusionary vs exclusionary" is a different issue from "liberal vs conservative".
I suppose it is, but you know who's going to end up where, generally speaking!

Pete (can understand why conservatives think it's specifically them that are targeted)
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Okay, was I the ONLY one who came here expecting there to be a DVD for sale?? <----(See, now that's derailing!)
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Pokeweed Mitogen wrote:
Okay, was I the ONLY one who came here expecting there to be a DVD for sale?? <----(See, now that's derailing!)

Happy now?
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Thunkd wrote:
Pokeweed Mitogen wrote:
Okay, was I the ONLY one who came here expecting there to be a DVD for sale?? <----(See, now that's derailing!)

Happy now?
Perfect!

Pete (claps)
 
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I think posts were removed under the pretext of not being on topic or derailing the conversation. My posts comparing other games that have sensitive elements was relevant to the discussion. Heavy handed removal of posts by moderators inhibit discussion, it doesn't help it.

IMHO moderators should not be on the business of keeping any damn thread on topic. They should be in the business of removing offensive posts or spam, that's it. A lot of good comments, like mine, probably got deleted. Was it bias on the moderator's part? Was it incompetence? Who knows. Why create this situation of apparent impartiality? Let the damn discussion flow, don't get involved unless name calling starts flying or threats. People can always hit X on a response.

I'm still angry about this crap. Octavian needs to find something better to do.

This is the kind of heavy handed approach you would expect from a company forum. I remember my thread being removed in Civ 5 because I complained about multiplayer functionality. That was the last Civ game I've purchased. I have no tolerance for stifling of discussion because of liberal, conservative, religious, or any other sensitivities.

Luckily here on BGG I just stick to talking about games.
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Belisarius88 wrote:
I'm still angry about this crap. Octavian needs to find something better to do.


He is... currently fixing my deck, mulching my yard, and then going to photograph my prized pooches for the next Furry Friends of Finicky Felines calendar (2020).

I'm steaming their tuxes right now - dogs look addooooorrrrable in formal wear.

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Thunkd wrote:
Pokeweed Mitogen wrote:
Okay, was I the ONLY one who came here expecting there to be a DVD for sale?? <----(See, now that's derailing!)

Happy now?


Hey... I have that one. Wonder if I can get an autograph from the man with the hands that wield a hammer.

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For those of you that missed it, Belisarius88 was wise enough to see why asking us to "get out" of his thread if we had nothing "intelligent" to contribute was very much antithetical to his reasons for opposing the current BGG moderation, so he deleted his comment.

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