Tom
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Ok so, I have some problems to bring this game to the table.:

1. A big bunch of rules without a good small overview. (around 30~40 minutes)

2. The start is slow (even with expansions and the more money you have) and drags around if you die too often due to very bad luck are you wanted to do something risky(but then it is your own fault ).

This should only fix the gap between Ship Tier 1 and 2 until the game stats rolling faster and faster for Fame-Point. So that beginners can enjoy the game in under 3 hours and then afer that, like to play the normal game to see the depth of the strategies.

3. Downtime between turns.




So now I thinking sometimes how to fix these problems but still I cant fix/buff all of them without breaking the game.

Do you know some solution how to tackle these problems?

Here is what I can think off right now:

1. Found a overview and did some small cards in addition and laminated them. That helps a lot and closes some questions for people.



2.
a) Give them more money (yes they have already enough for a decent strategy but not enough to compansate mistakes or getting faster to the first missions and trades for more money and a Tier 2 Ship).
-> The problem here is, how do you stop them to buy a Tier 2 Ship instant from the start?
You could say, that you need at least to fullfill 1 mission to buy a Tier 2 Ship as a lock. But then if your really unlucky, most of your missions cannot fullfilled early in the game. What then?

Or they need at least make X trades and or X Missions... mehh I dont know

Or a Turn-Timer that need to be 0 to buy Tier 2 Ships. But if you pull off a crazy stunt then that hinders you to get one earlier.

Well it is not easy to block something off and on the other hand give something instead (vice versa too!).


3. Solving Nr. 2 would help here. Also I saw a turn by turn Variant(but the problem is that you could always fly away from a blaster).

MAybe doing your turn while the other is starting his business phase.

I just want to find a way, someone is not sitting 10-15 minutes doing nothing while he is waiting that the other players finish their turns.


Any suggestions? :S



 
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Jonathan West
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Give each player 6K to start - can buy more stuff but not enough for a tier 2 ship (unless equipped only with a D6 engine!!! which would be a challenge (and make them a target) in itself.

TBH, the first 2/3 turns may be slow (which helps learning in fact), but it quickly ramps up. I find I'm in a tier 2 ship for only 1 or 2 turns normally before I'm buying a tier 3.
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Tyinsar -
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Ressless wrote:
...
MAybe doing your turn while the other is starting his business phase.
...
We do this.
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Randy D

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Starting with more money is a simple idea that works pretty well -- it gives players a bit more options for customizing their ships with decent outfit combinations. What's wrong with someone just buying a larger tier ship right off the bat? It doesn't strike me as a game-breaker, in fact, it seems like it would hurt the player -- you can either have a Tier 1 ship and lots of money to buy lots of good outfits and cargo to sell, or buy a Tier 2 ship without much else. While the Tier 1 ships are gaining exploration tokens with their big engines or making money selling cargo w/ cargo pods, or attacking other ships with big weapons, you are limping along in a Tier 2 ship with only a level 1 engine. If you really want to rule against it using some sort of timer mechanism then perhaps do not permit Tier 2 ships to be purchased until the first Event card is drawn. This will make it so that the lead player is the last player able to buy a new ship, since they are the one who triggered this ability, and it doesn't rely upon complicated or uncertain requirements such as completing missions or selling cargo, etc.
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Randy D

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In a recent 5-player game of Xia, I was quite nervous of downtime, so I had considered various options including the action-turn variant (each player goes around taking an action on their turn). We wound up not using any of them and simply had the next person go when you ended your Action Phase (begin Business/Cleanup Phase) and it actually went smoothly and moved at a good pace. We found that it was nice to have a little bit of time after your turn to look through the missions you've drawn to decide which one to take, or look through the next tier ships & powers to decide which one to buy, or decide how to arrange your outfits, or simply survey the board and decide on what to do when your turn comes up again. The catch was that when it was your turn then you must go and not spend much time deliberating things, so if you hadn't decided on a mission by the time your turn came around again then you discard them all or if you hadn't decided on a new ship then you didn't buy one or if you hadn't bought new outfits then you didn't get them. So even though it wasn't your turn, you were still quite engaged in the game (players were not as aware of downtime) and having planned your turn out ahead of time made things go fairly quickly when it actually was your turn (reducing downtime altogether). In fact, there was incentive to playing out your pre-planned turn as quickly as possible as it would reduce the amount of time other players had to strategize their turn and decide on a mission or new ship.

I was curious though, since the updated rules from the Embers expansion do say to select a mission after your turn has ended from those you've drawn during your turn, how do you handle the unfair advantage of new tiles being explored during this time? For example, suppose none of my drawn missions' destinations are currently available on the board. However, during other players' turns, one of the destinations is revealed so because of this new info I decide to take that mission before my turn comes up again. Should I not be watching the board while I select a mission or is this advanced info fair game? Likewise, since we actually took our entire Business Phase on other players' turns, it seemed a little unfair to be able to decide what outfit to buy after seeing what another player does on their turn after you had already taken your turn. For example, seeing that the next player, who happens to be adjacent to you, is buying weapon mods you then decide to buy a larger shield mod instead of that cargo pod you were originally eyeing. Even though that player came after you in turn order, since you are doing your Business Phase on other players' turns, you have this advanced knowledge.

The other thing I noticed during this game was that most players were so focused on conducting their Business Phase or choosing a mission or choosing a ship or planning out their next turn that rarely was anyone watching everything other players were doing (selling cargo, collecting money, buying outfits, applying border effects, etc.). It is easy to make mistakes in this game, especially for new players, and so I thought perhaps it might be good for the player whose turn just ended (before they choose a mission, choose a ship, etc.) to watch the next player take their turn to make sure nothing is missed.
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Dan Regs
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While I do see a potential for some advantage in picking mission cards while another player is playing IE: A new tile comes out and you now have a origin or destination point for a single mission card that you didn't before - I don't think it's significant enough to worry about.

The effect is mitigated somewhat by the additional missions in Embers, and again in Missions and Powers. The more expansion material you have, the less effect it has since both of these sets introduce missions with non-specific origins or destinations. IE: Instead of having to go to the horse-head nebula, you can visit any nebula.

Also, the potential advantage only will possibly impact a single card, out of 3 or more. Even with the card going from non-viable to viable, it may not be the most attractive to that specific player at that specific time. I know sometimes I'm looking for a mission of a specific type IE: Research or shuttle missions.

Maybe have the player next in turn order watch the prior player's turn?
 
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Randy D

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dream_rpg wrote:
Maybe have the player next in turn order watch the prior player's turn?

Out of curiosity, is this an arbitrary suggestion, or did you have some specific reasons for this change? I could go either way, but was wondering if there were some reasons for one over another.

On the one hand, there is that disruption for the player to observe immediately after their turn is done, and then continue with their Business Phase, mission selection, ... until they see their turn coming up. But on the other hand, it is easier to misjudge how much time you have left to conclude your off-turn actions before your turn comes up again if you need to be done when it is the turn of the player before you. And even then, you might be tempted to finish up your Business Phase while also observing the preceding player, whereas you simply do not have that luxury when it is your turn.
 
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Carl Hanson
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One common suggestion for speeding up the early game is to start with the Socialist Merchants Event in play. It provides a steady supply of money throughout the game without front loading starting credits. It also serves as a catch up mechanism for new players since it gives more money to players with fewer FP.
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Trogdor The Burninator
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During setup, randomly draw a Title card worth 1Fp. Having a goal available to everyone at the beginning of the game may help new players.
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Tom
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Oh man the Title Card is a real good thing! And yeah I like the way to think that a Tier 2 is not better than a fully loaded Tier 1 Ship.

Downtime I guess I go with that to choose missions and business phase. Lets hope I find now some wanna be Spaceheroes

Thanks for the input to ya all!
 
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Randy D

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Ressless wrote:
Lets hope I find now some wanna be Spaceheroes
Yeah, I hear you there. It doesn't hit the table nearly enough for me either.
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Randy D

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CrackTheSky wrote:
During setup, randomly draw a Title card worth 1Fp. Having a goal available to everyone at the beginning of the game may help new players.
Good idea. My wife doesn't really like this game (and therefore we don't play it) because she feels she doesn't have any specific goal to shoot for and so doesn't know what to do. Maybe I'll try this to get a goal out on the table and hopefully Xia can hit the table again.
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Ressless wrote:
... a Tier 2 is not better than a fully loaded Tier 1 Ship.
Last game we had one player who stayed at tier 1 until near the end then upgrade to a decent gunship. No one else had really geared up for combat and he almost won - he was actually not doing too bad and had already managed to grab a couple of titles.

randyd42 wrote:
CrackTheSky wrote:
During setup, randomly draw a Title card worth 1Fp. Having a goal available to everyone at the beginning of the game may help new players.
Good idea. My wife doesn't really like this game (and therefore we don't play it) because she feels she doesn't have any specific goal to shoot for and so doesn't know what to do. Maybe I'll try this to get a goal out on the table and hopefully Xia can hit the table again.
Crazy thought but: hand out three random 1Fp cards to each player at the start as sort of secret missions.
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Trogdor The Burninator
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Quote:
Crazy thought but: hand out three random 1Fp cards to each player at the start as sort of secret missions.
Ooooooh! I like it!
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CrackTheSky wrote:

Quote:
Crazy thought but: hand out three random 1Fp cards to each player at the start as sort of secret missions.
Ooooooh! I like it!
thumbsup
I’m not near my game at the moment so I just hope there’s enough titles in the deck. We might also have to have another alternate ability for the one ship that gets extra power from titles (or modify or disallow that ability).
 
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Can't sleep - Yay insomnia! zombie

Titles:
1 Fp x 18
2 Fp x 8
3 Fp x2
plus 1 blank at each level

This could work!

The ship power in question is "Livestream-1" for Long Haul (level 3). This is the alternate power from the Missions & Powers expansion.
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Tom
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Tyinsar wrote:
Can't sleep - Yay insomnia! zombie

Titles:
1 Fp x 18
2 Fp x 8
3 Fp x2
plus 1 blank at each level

This could work!

The ship power in question is "Livestream-1" for Long Haul (level 3). This is the alternate power from the Missions & Powers expansion.

You could use Blank one for a Simple Task, and that is the beginner Title!^^
 
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Randy D

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Tyinsar wrote:
Crazy thought but: hand out three random 1Fp cards to each player at the start as sort of secret missions.
Are you thinking each player keeps all 3 or chooses 1 of the 3 to keep and discard the rest?
 
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randyd42 wrote:
Tyinsar wrote:
Crazy thought but: hand out three random 1Fp cards to each player at the start as sort of secret missions.
Are you thinking each player keeps all 3 or chooses 1 of the 3 to keep and discard the rest?
My first thought was to keep only one but then I thought why not keep all three? I suppose keeping all three may increase the randomness since one player may get three that would be made easier by a particular ship power or outfit set while another player may get three harder or unrelated missions. However, having three might give players more flexibility in accomplishing them.

I think I’d put it up for a vote with my game group since I can see negatives and positives both ways. Which would you prefer?
 
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Randy D

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Tyinsar wrote:
I think I’d put it up for a vote with my game group since I can see negatives and positives both ways. Which would you prefer?

Selecting a title from 3 drawn options does seem to help mitigate the "bad draw" factor, giving all players a fairly equal shot at achieving their title and focusing in a direction they would like to go (trading, pirating, ...). However, it's also nice having a small array of goals to shoot for while playing too. Maybe draw 3 and keep 2? Or maybe put them in piles equal to their Fame Point value and allow players to choose from which pile to draw their 3, only that they may keep 3 1pt titles, or 2 2pt titles, or 1 3pt title.

I think I'd probably put it up for a vote in my group.
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laugh You're no help at all laugh
Guess we'll have to assign 1-10 = pick one of three and 11-20 = keep all three: 1d20 = (17) = 17
 
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Randy D

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randyd42 wrote:
Likewise, since we actually took our entire Business Phase on other players' turns, it seemed a little unfair to be able to decide what outfit to buy after seeing what another player does on their turn after you had already taken your turn. For example, seeing that the next player, who happens to be adjacent to you, is buying weapon mods you then decide to buy a larger shield mod instead of that cargo pod you were originally eyeing. Even though that player came after you in turn order, since you are doing your Business Phase on other players' turns, you have this advanced knowledge.

Anyone have any thoughts on mitigating this?
 
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randyd42 wrote:
randyd42 wrote:
Likewise, since we actually took our entire Business Phase on other players' turns, it seemed a little unfair to be able to decide what outfit to buy after seeing what another player does on their turn after you had already taken your turn. For example, seeing that the next player, who happens to be adjacent to you, is buying weapon mods you then decide to buy a larger shield mod instead of that cargo pod you were originally eyeing. Even though that player came after you in turn order, since you are doing your Business Phase on other players' turns, you have this advanced knowledge.

Anyone have any thoughts on mitigating this?
The easiest method would be to have the business phase elements happen on another table and facing away from the game.
 
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