Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
35 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Introduction » New User Questions

Subject: What does PnP mean rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
david tamali
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
I understand what it stands for (print and play) but I was just curious what it means since I see it a lot around here
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Happy Holidays! ABCDEFGHIJK MNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
badge
Please contact me about board gaming in Orange County.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's a game designed to be printed on a home printer and played.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Gazdecki
United States
Lindsey
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
There are some games which people have simply uploaded to BGG that you can print out the components and the rules, make the game yourself, and then play it.

Other games, a lot of Kickstarters for example, will release PnP's for people to try out to see if they like it and want to back it, and some even offer high resolution PnP's that you can back. Usually you get the pdf files for the components, and then the individual makes them somehow and then plays the game.

But basically it entails getting the files for the components, creating the physical pieces yourself, and then being able to play the game.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Keiser
United States
Waunakee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
david tamali
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
Bruiser419 wrote:
There are some games which people have simply uploaded to BGG that you can print out the components and the rules, make the game yourself, and then play it.

Other games, a lot of Kickstarters for example, will release PnP's for people to try out to see if they like it and want to back it, and some even offer high resolution PnP's that you can back. Usually you get the pdf files for the components, and then the individual makes them somehow and then plays the game.

But basically it entails getting the files for the components, creating the physical pieces yourself, and then being able to play the game.
By components I'm assuming no miniatures are involved, unless they have PnPs for people with 3D printers at their house. Is it basically entirely cards and boards? What about dice? Thanks
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Happy Holidays! ABCDEFGHIJK MNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
badge
Please contact me about board gaming in Orange County.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
stylicho wrote:
By components I'm assuming no miniatures are involved, unless they have PnPs for people with 3D printers at their house. Is it basically entirely cards and boards? What about dice? Thanks
I don't think it would be unheard of to use dice from another game. Most gamers at least have some d6s around. Or coins (d2s) or other common objects might be used.

Miniatures, no, but "standees" might be used. They're pictures of a character put on a stand or folded so they stand.

Since these games are free and sometimes improvised, no real rules exist.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Reverend Uncle Bastard
Canada
Windsor
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Unapologetic Continual Troublemaker!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Generally it is cards/boards/sheets to print out. Most of the games will also need dice and/or tokens, but generally people just use dice or cubes from other games in their collections.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kai Bettzieche
Germany
Ladenburg
Baden Württemberg
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
To give you a rough idea, I recommend this thread:

Monthly Print ' n Play Tally List Subscription Thread

It contains links to almost 10 years (oh god...) of people crafting print and play games.
Just click on the links, go through the lists and watch the pictures of the crafted games, where people have created game components with cardboard, replaced pawns with miniatures from god-knows-where and whatelse.
Creativity knows no boundaries - those lists are the proof for that statement!

Do you want to craft your own game?

Get on board and join the crew!



Kind regards,
Kai
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K H
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tall_Walt wrote:
Since these games are free and sometimes improvised, no real rules exist.
I disagree with this statement. Print and Play games usually do contain a formal rules document which may be printed along with any cards, chits, boards, etc. or just kept in electronic form for easy referral on a phone or tablet. Although many PnP games are available free of charge, some are only available on a pay-for-download basis.

Since there are fewer barriers to publish a game as PnP (no components to manufacture, no inventory to maintain, no tangibles to ship, far less capital invested), you will see greater variation in quality from title to title, compared to boxed retail games. By quality I mean things like the clarity, completeness, organization, and style of the rules document; the consistency and functionality of the graphic design; the visual appeal and level of detail in the artwork; and how well the rule set creates a player experience that is engaging, challenging, and balanced fairly. Some PnP games are so good that they exceed industry norms for boxed retail games. Others are so bad they could never sell in the retail market without a major overhaul.

As to the original question in this thread, the term Print and Play has a range of meanings to different people and in different contexts. In the broadest sense it applies to any game where the publisher provides electronic documents detailing the rules and components to be used in playing the game, and supplying all of the visual elements to be used in making the specified components, but with the expectation that the user will then be responsible for actually building the game by printing those resources, mounting them as needed, cutting them apart to make chits and cards, and buying or scrounging any additional parts needed such as dice, pawns, poker chips, or cubes. Some titles call for extensive builds requiring tools, materials, and skills that only an experienced crafter would be expected to have. Other titles are ready to play as soon as the ink dries on the paper.

[edit for layout]
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
david tamali
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
Interesting. So I'm guessing printers, and what you put in them, are big in this area. Thanks for the info
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Calum M
Scotland
flag msg tools
Mmmm, teacakes.
badge
There's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For high quality PNP games take a look at https://www.pnparcade.com/ and the PNP News blog: https://boardgamegeek.com/blogcategory/1400/pnp-games-news
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Simply looking at a few example print-and-play games (Print & Play) will probably clear things up quickly.

Note that many games are originally released as PnP and later are commercially published. The PnP edition may remain available, or not, as the designer + publisher decide.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Happy Holidays! ABCDEFGHIJK MNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
badge
Please contact me about board gaming in Orange County.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Slounger wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Since these games are free and sometimes improvised, no real rules exist.
I disagree with this statement. Print and Play games usually do contain a formal rules document ...
I was unclear. I meant, no real rules exist for what objects, printing techniques, and so forth are required to make a PnP game. A game might ask for 3D printed miniature, but I think usually it would supply a cheaper option, like standees or chess pieces. A game might ask for a d8, but of course, 3d2, three coins, can substitute.

Sorry for the lack of clarity.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Gazdecki
United States
Lindsey
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Tall_Walt wrote:
Slounger wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Since these games are free and sometimes improvised, no real rules exist.
I disagree with this statement. Print and Play games usually do contain a formal rules document ...
I was unclear. I meant, no real rules exist for what objects, printing techniques, and so forth are required to make a PnP game. A game might ask for 3D printed miniature, but I think usually it would supply a cheaper option, like standees or chess pieces. A game might ask for a d8, but of course, 3d2, three coins, can substitute.

Sorry for the lack of clarity.

Not to be pedantic but 2 things.

1.) You would need 4d2 or 4 coins to "equal" a d8
2.) I don't think you can make that substitution because I don't think the probabilities match up.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Thur
Germany
Weitersburg
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mb
Bruiser419 wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Slounger wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Since these games are free and sometimes improvised, no real rules exist.
I disagree with this statement. Print and Play games usually do contain a formal rules document ...
I was unclear. I meant, no real rules exist for what objects, printing techniques, and so forth are required to make a PnP game. A game might ask for 3D printed miniature, but I think usually it would supply a cheaper option, like standees or chess pieces. A game might ask for a d8, but of course, 3d2, three coins, can substitute.

Sorry for the lack of clarity.

Not to be pedantic but 2 things.

1.) You would need 4d2 or 4 coins to "equal" a d8
2.) I don't think you can make that substitution because I don't think the probabilities match up.

3d2 are suffcient for a d8 and the probabilities are perfect.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Gazdecki
United States
Lindsey
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Tomcat1304 wrote:
Bruiser419 wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Slounger wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Since these games are free and sometimes improvised, no real rules exist.
I disagree with this statement. Print and Play games usually do contain a formal rules document ...
I was unclear. I meant, no real rules exist for what objects, printing techniques, and so forth are required to make a PnP game. A game might ask for 3D printed miniature, but I think usually it would supply a cheaper option, like standees or chess pieces. A game might ask for a d8, but of course, 3d2, three coins, can substitute.

Sorry for the lack of clarity.

Not to be pedantic but 2 things.

1.) You would need 4d2 or 4 coins to "equal" a d8
2.) I don't think you can make that substitution because I don't think the probabilities match up.

3d2 are suffcient for a d8 and the probabilities are perfect.

How do you figure? Even assuming you used 3d2 for a d8, which I don't think you can, the lowest value you could get is a 3. There's no way to get a 1 or 2. If you used 4d2, the lowest is 4 so no 1,2, or 3.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Reverend Uncle Bastard
Canada
Windsor
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Unapologetic Continual Troublemaker!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bruiser419 wrote:
Tomcat1304 wrote:
Bruiser419 wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Slounger wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
Since these games are free and sometimes improvised, no real rules exist.
I disagree with this statement. Print and Play games usually do contain a formal rules document ...
I was unclear. I meant, no real rules exist for what objects, printing techniques, and so forth are required to make a PnP game. A game might ask for 3D printed miniature, but I think usually it would supply a cheaper option, like standees or chess pieces. A game might ask for a d8, but of course, 3d2, three coins, can substitute.

Sorry for the lack of clarity.

Not to be pedantic but 2 things.

1.) You would need 4d2 or 4 coins to "equal" a d8
2.) I don't think you can make that substitution because I don't think the probabilities match up.

3d2 are suffcient for a d8 and the probabilities are perfect.

How do you figure? Even assuming you used 3d2 for a d8, which I don't think you can, the lowest value you could get is a 3. There's no way to get a 1 or 2. If you used 4d2, the lowest is 4 so no 1,2, or 3.

It's just binary!

First coin
- heads 1-4 tails 5-8
second coin
- (first coin heads) heads 1-2, tails 3-4
- (first coin tails) heads 5-6, tails 7-8
third coin
- (first coin heads, second coin heads) heads 1, tails 2
- (first coin heads, second coin tails) heads 3, tails 4
- (first coin tails, second coin heads) heads 5, tails 6
- (first coin tails, second coin tails) heads 7, tails 8

Or just read it as binary, with heads=0, tails=1

So a flip of heads (0), tails (1), heads (0) would read 010 or 3 in binary.

Binary conversion chart, for those unfamiliar with binary notation:

000=1
001=2
010=3
011=4
100=5
101=6
110=7
111=8

As you can see the probabilities are perfectly even in distribution.
5 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Happy Holidays! ABCDEFGHIJK MNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
badge
Please contact me about board gaming in Orange County.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bruiser419 wrote:
Not to be pedantic but 2 things.

1.) You would need 4d2 or 4 coins to "equal" a d8
2.) I don't think you can make that substitution because I don't think the probabilities match up.
8 = 2×2×2, so 3d2. Use a penny, a nickel, and a dime:

1¢ = 0/1
5¢ = 0/2
10¢= 0/4

then add 1. Example, all heads = 1+2+4+1 = 8.

"Fear my botany [binary] powers!"
3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Reverend Uncle Bastard
Canada
Windsor
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Unapologetic Continual Troublemaker!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tall_Walt wrote:
Bruiser419 wrote:
Not to be pedantic but 2 things.

1.) You would need 4d2 or 4 coins to "equal" a d8
2.) I don't think you can make that substitution because I don't think the probabilities match up.
8 = 2×2×2, so 3d2. Use a penny, a nickel, and a dime:

1¢ = 0/1
5¢ = 0/2
10¢= 0/4

then add 1. Example, all heads = 1+2+4+1 = 8.

"Fear my botany [binary] powers!"

That is a clearer way to put it!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Gazdecki
United States
Lindsey
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Makes sense.

Binary is not usually something I think in.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K H
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
stylicho wrote:
Interesting. So I'm guessing printers, and what you put in them, are big in this area. Thanks for the info
Oh yes indeed. If the PnP/DIY bug bites you, you can expect the following symptoms:
+ Visiting multiple office, craft, and art supply stores every month looking for full page label sheets with good strong adhesive, heavy and lightweight card stock in various colors, and/or linen finish paper in various weights.
+ Shopping for a new printer with a straight paper feed path (not bent around rollers as it feeds through) and the ability to print on heavy (200 gsm) and even extra-heavy (>300 gsm) card stock.
+ Shopping for third party aftermarket continuous ink supplies or refillable high capacity ink/toner cartridges for your printer.
+ Visiting thrift stores and garage sales looking for cheap copies of certain games known to contain indented dice in certain sizes and colors, pawns, cubes, and other reuseable bits, with no intention of ever playing the original game.
+ Shopping for specialty tools like rotary cutters, self-healing cutting mats, die cut machines, arch punches, hobby knives with bulk replacement blades in a variety of blade shapes and sizes, light boxes, and the list goes on.
+ Frequently buying or reclaiming cardboard in various compositions and thicknesses.
+ Frequently buying spray finishes and adhesives.
+ Opening windows year round to vent away the fumes from spray finishes and adhesives.
+ Spending at least as much time building new games as actually playing them.
+ Posting pictures of finished and in-progress builds in the DIY forum and/or the monthly what-PnP-are-you-building geeklist (This subscription thread alerts you when the new geeklist is out and provides links).

Welcome to the asylum!
4 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Happy Holidays! ABCDEFGHIJK MNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
badge
Please contact me about board gaming in Orange County.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bruiser419 wrote:
Makes sense.

Binary is not usually something I think in.
Bet you do:

Two cups in a pint.
Two pints in a quart.
Two quarts in a half gallon.
Two half gallons in a gallon.

(This was a bigger sequence formerly, but some measures have fallen out of use. Before anything more than balance scales were common, dividing something in two was easy and accurate using a balance scale, and pretty good by eye. Try pouring a tenth of a liter by eye.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan - Son of Hett
United States
The Triangle
North Carolina
flag msg tools
 "…and in the darkness bind them / In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie." …gives me goosebumps every time, even all these years later.
Avatar
mbmbmb
reverendunclebastard wrote:

Binary conversion chart, for those unfamiliar with binary notation:

000=1
001=2
010=3
011=4
100=5
101=6
110=7
111=8

You left out the +1 detail. You are using sequential 3dBin+1, because:
Bin = Dec
000 = 0
001 = 1
010 = 2
011 = 3
100 = 4
101 = 5
110 = 6
111 = 7

...just to clarify.
3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Reverend Uncle Bastard
Canada
Windsor
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Unapologetic Continual Troublemaker!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JVgamer wrote:
reverendunclebastard wrote:

Binary conversion chart, for those unfamiliar with binary notation:

000=1
001=2
010=3
011=4
100=5
101=6
110=7
111=8

You left out the +1 detail. You are using sequential 3dBin+1, because:
Bin = Dec
000 = 0
001 = 1
010 = 2
011 = 3
100 = 4
101 = 5
110 = 6
111 = 7

...just to clarify.

You are correct sir!! This thread has gone on a delightful pedantic mathematician tangent and I love it
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Happy Holidays! ABCDEFGHIJK MNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
badge
Please contact me about board gaming in Orange County.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, it's binary code. All assignments between actual data and meanings are arbitrary.

For example, the 3-bit PDP-8 instruction codes were logical "and", add, increment and skip if zero (a counter), store, jump to subroutine, jump, input-output, and various operations on the accumulator including skipping if a test succeeded. The odd structure and limited instructions were to minimize electronics.

A still-common code is Two's Complement:

000 zero
001 +1
010 +2
011 +3
100 -4
101 -3
110 -2
111 -1

One of the odder codings is +1 -2 +4 etc. It's a bit strange because you can go more positive than negative or the reverse, my example going from -2 to +5. But you can always reverse the signs if you want to go in the opposite direction.

Then there's the 6-bit I Ching, which I'll just link to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagram_(I_Ching)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   |