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Subject: No Linux support? rss

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Andrew Jones
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I've got this game on preorder and in my excitement of it arriving this week I just checked out the app on steam and noticed there is no linux support! Is this typical for FFG games? I've never owner an app-based game before but when I heard they would have a client on steam I guess I just assumed they would have linux support.
 
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Mikkel Øberg
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I must admit I have never heard of a FFG-product having Linux-support. Lnix is, however wonderful a system it may be, still a tiny part of the private average-consumer computer market and as such no app. Liekwise with for instance Windows Phone, no app either.

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to start a discussion on the merits of Linux - I used to be a systems administrator running linux and fully acknowledge the greatness of the system.
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Andy Leighton
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But the apps don't really do anything really sophisticated do they?
I am not sure how they implement the apps on the phone side but for desktop surely they could be easily implemented in js/html and packaged as an Electron application which could easily produce versions for all three main desktop systems.
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Jeff Thompson
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Java?

But seriously... as someone mentioned Linux is not popular, and FFG is not a software company. I doubt FFG wants to spend any effort supporting an application of any kind, but at least they can control the complexity by limiting the application for deployment to a small subset of systems. If they are going to limit the number of systems, I agree they should maximize the overall coverage.

Sure, I'd love Linux support but would rather have FFG spend money on developing boardgames and not supporting software.
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John Medany
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Be happy it’s on Steam for PC.

The majority will be IOS or Android users on Tablets or even phones

Then Windows PC

Then MAC

There is such a small number of people using Linux for gaming that its just too expensive to be worth developing for. Even the Mac User base will make the Linux one look tiny... (even if OSX is based on FreeBSD)

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John Medany
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andyl wrote:
But the apps don't really do anything really sophisticated do they?
I am not sure how they implement the apps on the phone side but for desktop surely they could be easily implemented in js/html and packaged as an Electron application which could easily produce versions for all three main desktop systems.


No - they are far more complex than you think - would need a database engine on top of it and JS wouldn’t do what’s needed. As others have said possibly Java but as FFG aren’t a software house they are going to go with what they know ...
 
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when in doubt, you could look at some Android emulators for your Linux
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radioblaster wrote:
I've got this game on preorder and in my excitement of it arriving this week I just checked out the app on steam and noticed there is no linux support! Is this typical for FFG games? I've never owner an app-based game before but when I heard they would have a client on steam I guess I just assumed they would have linux support.


Why would you assume that? Comparatively speaking, there's only a fraction of games on Steam supported on Linux out of the available games.

If they used Unreal (or Unity I suppose), then Linux support is in reach, but they may also have decided not to because of the small market share and not having fully tested Linux support.

There are still ways around the problem, though, for Linux users. OS/2 Warp, on the other hand...





 
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Drew
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Tompy wrote:
Java?

But seriously... as someone mentioned Linux is not popular, and FFG is not a software company. I doubt FFG wants to spend any effort supporting an application of any kind, but at least they can control the complexity by limiting the application for deployment to a small subset of systems. If they are going to limit the number of systems, I agree they should maximize the overall coverage.

Sure, I'd love Linux support but would rather have FFG spend money on developing boardgames and not supporting software.


FFG is not a software company but the software side these days is handled by Asmodee Digital, which has a pretty deep amount of digital product these days.

https://www.asmodee-digital.com/en/

I would expect all current and future digital products to be released on Steam, Android and IOS. It seems that the board game assistant apps frequently are released for the Amazon app store as well, so there is Amazon Fire tablet support as well.
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Andrew Jones
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sequella wrote:

Why would you assume that? Comparatively speaking, there's only a fraction of games on Steam supported on Linux out of the available games.

I simply assumed that since it is not a AAA game title that they'd just use opengl so that it would run on most platforms. I understand Linux is generally not widely supported, I guess I was just expressing a bit of disappointment because I don't have a tablet and my laptop is linux. Either way, where there's a will there's a way! I'm sure I can come up with another solution.
 
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Jeff Thornsen
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I would think most Linux users already know how to work around this.

For example, you can usually use WINE or PlayOnLinux to run Windows applications thru an emulator. A very quick google search seems to indicate that it should be easy to get Steam running on Linux.

I'm sure you could also find an Android emulator and then install the App thru Google Play store.
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Greg Kubas
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radioblaster wrote:
I've got this game on preorder and in my excitement of it arriving this week I just checked out the app on steam and noticed there is no linux support! Is this typical for FFG games? I've never owner an app-based game before but when I heard they would have a client on steam I guess I just assumed they would have linux support.


Their apps work very well under wine. I have Descent, Imperial Assault and Mansion on Madness installed on Linux laptop.

Simply install Steam, according to https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iI....
Then install the app from Steam client.
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Kevin B. Smith
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radioblaster wrote:
I've got this game on preorder and in my excitement of it arriving this week I just checked out the app on steam and noticed there is no linux support! Is this typical for FFG games? I've never owner an app-based game before but when I heard they would have a client on steam I guess I just assumed they would have linux support.

Oof. I haven't ordered, but might have, making that same faulty assumption. In these days of powerful browsers and html5/javascript, I figured it would just work, forgetting they use Steam. Still, since a lot of Steam games are available on Linux as well, it's disappointing this one isn't.

Some day I need to look into Steam to find out whether the choice of a publisher to avoid Linux support is for legitimate technical develop reasons, or just because they didn't want to test and support it after flipping a switch. If Sentinels of the Multiverse can do it, it shouldn't be THAT hard.

Before buying the game, I would download the app on my phone, to see how it is. I'm afraid that it's going to be too small and crowded on a 5" screen.

gaspodeX wrote:
Be happy it’s on Steam for PC.

Well, if we only have Linux computers, that doesn't seem like something to be happy about. However, in the last few months, Steam has been working on an emulator system to allow non-Linux Steam apps to run under Linux. It's still in beta.

I changed my beta status in Steam, and then found the setting to run non-Linux games using proton. Then I applied a proton settings tweak found on the protondb.com site. With that, I was able to get the Mansions of Madness app to work. That makes me optimistic that RotR:JtME might work too.



As usual with these hybrid games, open source would be a great option. That would allow people with time and motivation to make it work. Apparently some folks have created an open source app for Mansions of Madness from scratch. Imagine how much better that app could be if they could have leveraged FFG's work.
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Patrick Parker
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One thing you need to consider is that the apps were originally released as Android or IOS for a reason. They are only part of a physical game.

If JiME is anything like MoM or Descent, then the physical components of the game take up a substantial amount of space on the table. I can recall several scenarios I have played where I don't think I had enough room to place a laptop on our table as well. And you need to interact with the app all the time, so it needs to be on the table. A tablet takes up far less space, and I would guess that is what FFG intended to be used to play. Tablets can also be passed from player to player easily, unlike a laptop, and there are times you need to do this (at least in MoM).

Adding these programs to Steam seems like a response to requests from their customers. However, it is probably not a good idea to run them on a laptop. Space will be an issue for most gamers, in this case.
 
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Andrew Jones
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peakhope wrote:

However, in the last few months, Steam has been working on an emulator system to allow non-Linux Steam apps to run under Linux. It's still in beta.

I changed my beta status in Steam, and then found the setting to run non-Linux games using proton. Then I applied a proton settings tweak found on the protondb.com site. With that, I was able to get the Mansions of Madness app to work. That makes me optimistic that RotR:JtME might work too.


Thanks for that tip. I just checked out my steam client on linux and I see Steam Play with proton is now a regular option (no need to opt into beta). I'll give that a try!
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Andy Leighton
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GaspodeX wrote:
andyl wrote:
But the apps don't really do anything really sophisticated do they?
I am not sure how they implement the apps on the phone side but for desktop surely they could be easily implemented in js/html and packaged as an Electron application which could easily produce versions for all three main desktop systems.


No - they are far more complex than you think - would need a database engine on top of it and JS wouldn’t do what’s needed.

Really? What do you think there is that Javascript can't do? Considering that someone has written x86 virtualization in JavaScript, which runs in a browser and NodeJS?

The database is trivial - one could use pouch for example.
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Michael Carter
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andyl wrote:
GaspodeX wrote:
andyl wrote:
But the apps don't really do anything really sophisticated do they?
I am not sure how they implement the apps on the phone side but for desktop surely they could be easily implemented in js/html and packaged as an Electron application which could easily produce versions for all three main desktop systems.


No - they are far more complex than you think - would need a database engine on top of it and JS wouldn’t do what’s needed.

Really? What do you think there is that Javascript can't do? Considering that someone has written x86 virtualization in JavaScript, which runs in a browser and NodeJS?

The database is trivial - one could use pouch for example.


JavaScript should stay in the browser where it belongs. yuk
 
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mlcarter815 wrote:
andyl wrote:
GaspodeX wrote:
andyl wrote:
But the apps don't really do anything really sophisticated do they?
I am not sure how they implement the apps on the phone side but for desktop surely they could be easily implemented in js/html and packaged as an Electron application which could easily produce versions for all three main desktop systems.


No - they are far more complex than you think - would need a database engine on top of it and JS wouldn’t do what’s needed.

Really? What do you think there is that Javascript can't do? Considering that someone has written x86 virtualization in JavaScript, which runs in a browser and NodeJS?

The database is trivial - one could use pouch for example.


JavaScript should stay in the browser where it belongs. yuk

You do know the browser has a simple database API.

Also some of the apps I have got which use Electron are totally credible. vscode is a pretty decent IDE.

But also with WebAssembly being a target for other languages I would imagine that most of what is written could be done in Rust or Elixir or even C or C++ if you really want to.
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Michael Carter
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andyl wrote:
mlcarter815 wrote:
andyl wrote:
GaspodeX wrote:
andyl wrote:
But the apps don't really do anything really sophisticated do they?
I am not sure how they implement the apps on the phone side but for desktop surely they could be easily implemented in js/html and packaged as an Electron application which could easily produce versions for all three main desktop systems.


No - they are far more complex than you think - would need a database engine on top of it and JS wouldn’t do what’s needed.

Really? What do you think there is that Javascript can't do? Considering that someone has written x86 virtualization in JavaScript, which runs in a browser and NodeJS?

The database is trivial - one could use pouch for example.


JavaScript should stay in the browser where it belongs. yuk

You do know the browser has a simple database API.

Also some of the apps I have got which use Electron are totally credible. vscode is a pretty decent IDE.

But also with WebAssembly being a target for other languages I would imagine that most of what is written could be done in Rust or Elixir or even C or C++ if you really want to.


I do. I just don’t like that JavaScript has bled into the server side, but I also can’t believe people program large applications in Python.
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Max Augustin
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I haven't downloaded the app myself, but all other FFG apps are done in Unity, it should however be easy to check as they tend to use the default unity settings menu that opens up before the actual game starts. If this is the same style of menu that MoM app uses, it definitely is Unity. And Unity has official Linux build support, so FFG is basically to lazy to hit the build button once more. I understand that they don't want to test a platform that 0.01% of their userbase will use but Unity tends to handle this fairly smoothly, especially when all the code is Platform independent and runs under Android and iOS as well as Windows. Just send them an email, a person that knows his stuff should be able to build and publish on steam in few hours, maybe they will at least a beta version.
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It may seem easy to do a Linux export, but it's actually hard for large companies to set aside one or two testers for the builds. We don't have to agree with it, but that's just how it is. It's a bit like how the Russian army is implemented in Memoir '44.

Which is hilariously annoying when one of the most used platforms basically IS Linux, just on your phone/tablet. Unity even has good Vulkan support. And WebGL with wasm.

Oh, and the Linux userbase is probably past 2-3% by now. The Mac population is closer to 20% outside hardcore gamers (US estimates; Europe may be a few percent below). Steam numbers will skew towards gamers, while board games tend to appeal to more than just that crowd so you will see all sorts of OS choices.

Go nag some FFG people on social media. They might listen with enough voices.
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gnurf wrote:
It may seem easy to do a Linux export, but it's actually hard for large companies to set aside one or two testers for the builds. We don't have to agree with it, but that's just how it is. It's a bit like how the Russian army is implemented in Memoir '44.

Which is hilariously annoying when one of the most used platforms basically IS Linux, just on your phone/tablet. Unity even has good Vulkan support. And WebGL with wasm.

Oh, and the Linux userbase is probably past 2-3% by now. The Mac population is closer to 20% outside hardcore gamers (US estimates; Europe may be a few percent below). Steam numbers will skew towards gamers, while board games tend to appeal to more than just that crowd so you will see all sorts of OS choices.

Go nag some FFG people on social media. They might listen with enough voices.


Mac OS has never even hit double digits in usage among the full population, and yes Linux users are still at 2 - 3 %.

https://netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.asp...

As a developer I can agree with them not supporting Linux. Its a lot of extra work for a very small gain. It makes little business sense. Especially when most apps work through WINE.
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radioblaster wrote:
peakhope wrote:

However, in the last few months, Steam has been working on an emulator system to allow non-Linux Steam apps to run under Linux. It's still in beta.

I changed my beta status in Steam, and then found the setting to run non-Linux games using proton. Then I applied a proton settings tweak found on the protondb.com site. With that, I was able to get the Mansions of Madness app to work. That makes me optimistic that RotR:JtME might work too.


Thanks for that tip. I just checked out my steam client on linux and I see Steam Play with proton is now a regular option (no need to opt into beta). I'll give that a try!


I've noticed FFG apps run faster under Wine than Steam's proton (it's easier to install and run though; running apps under Wine could be tricky sometimes).
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Just as an aside, worth pointing out that Android is essentially a mobile variant of Linux. So the Linux market share in the mobile space is actually enormous, and in a sense FFG do support it, just not one of the desktop kernels

I say this only because as someone who used and promoted Linux through the period when Microsoft and others tried their hardest to kill off Linux, it gives me pleasure to see how things have evolved.
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mlcarter815 wrote:
andyl wrote:
mlcarter815 wrote:
andyl wrote:
GaspodeX wrote:
andyl wrote:
But the apps don't really do anything really sophisticated do they?
I am not sure how they implement the apps on the phone side but for desktop surely they could be easily implemented in js/html and packaged as an Electron application which could easily produce versions for all three main desktop systems.


No - they are far more complex than you think - would need a database engine on top of it and JS wouldn’t do what’s needed.

Really? What do you think there is that Javascript can't do? Considering that someone has written x86 virtualization in JavaScript, which runs in a browser and NodeJS?

The database is trivial - one could use pouch for example.


JavaScript should stay in the browser where it belongs. yuk

You do know the browser has a simple database API.

Also some of the apps I have got which use Electron are totally credible. vscode is a pretty decent IDE.

But also with WebAssembly being a target for other languages I would imagine that most of what is written could be done in Rust or Elixir or even C or C++ if you really want to.


I do. I just don’t like that JavaScript has bled into the server side, but I also can’t believe people program large applications in Python.


wait, so your counter argument to wanting to use JS on the client for cross-platform applications is that you don't like it on the server?

wat?

 
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