Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Street Fighter: The Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: 20+ fighters interesting and distinctive enough rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ondrej Kocnar
Czech Republic
Prague
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hello,
I am thinking about backing this and perhaps even about World Warrior
pledge, but I am worried that the system will be too simple and shallow
to support substantial fighter diversity (and perhaps that "later" fighters will not get enough of designing time).

Does somebody have some insight into this?

Thanks a lot.





 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Beiter
United States
Tonawanda
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There was actually a big post about this allready.

The designers seem to be doing a good job of really differentiating the fighters to make them all feel unique.

They have only previewed a small handful of them at this point but on good faith it appears that they are really putting the time in to differentiate them.

I'm not worried.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ondrej Kocnar
Czech Republic
Prague
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
MajaiofDreams wrote:
There was actually a big post about this allready.

The designers seem to be doing a good job of really differentiating the fighters to make them all feel unique.

They have only previewed a small handful of them at this point but on good faith it appears that they are really putting the time in to differentiate them.

I'm not worried.


Thanks,
can you please point me to this post?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Beiter
United States
Tonawanda
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1983565/add-characters-how-...

Here is a good example. The designer himself commented on it.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ondrej Kocnar
Czech Republic
Prague
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I have read the tread but it seems to only be a promise, a bit substantiated by the fact that the designer has ideas and knows what he is talking about.

This seems pretty poor info for a game that is already being designed for such a long time.

Exceed Street Fighter also will have 20+ fighters and their designs seem to be very satisfying and varied so far and they had all of the presently available fighters (12) previewed in detail already I think.
And it is still a gamble whether they will be able to flesh out all the fighters well eventually.
Here we have some gameplay videos of few core characters and very limited deck-skimming in comparison.

I am sorry, but I am still undecided and willingness of many backers to be fine with such a meager info makes me nervous.

Exceed creators in comparison NEITHER ask you to take a big gamble (you can buy one smaller box at a time/wait for reviews) NOR keep most of design for themselves.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Beiter
United States
Tonawanda
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I do get where you are comming from.

I agree the designers dropped the ball a bit on trying to sell the new characters.
I called that out in an earlier thread.
They are relying on our trust that since they did such a thorough job of the few weve seen that we will believe ALL fighters will get the same love.

And based on the passion I have seen this far, I believe they will not disappoint us.

I think every single fighter will feel unique and fun.

This is a leap of faith that I personally feel will be well rewarded.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Captain Peach
msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
You could look at the Kickstarter maybe? Most backers were not fine with little differences seen, and demanded seeing different characters in the plays they did.

There were multiple plays, including one of M Bison as a Boss. All of which showed Zangief, Ken, Ru, Chun Li, Guile, I believe Dee Jayy and Blanka and E Honda too, all of which seemed to have pretty wide ranging strategies and styles.

Another thing to note, is despite the reach or size of BGG, I have found of people I talk to, only about 10% of people even know of its existence, let alone use it. Jasco makes multiple systems and employs man people... but looking through BGG you would wonder how given the way BGG users have perceived a few of their in house designed game. So it's not a shock to me they haven't prioritized putting said information on BGG.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Captain Peach
msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
MajaiofDreams wrote:
I do get where you are comming from.

I agree the designers dropped the ball a bit on trying to sell the new characters.
I called that out in an earlier thread.
They are relying on our trust that since they did such a thorough job of the few weve seen that we will believe ALL fighters will get the same love.

And based on the passion I have seen this far, I believe they will not disappoint us.

I think every single fighter will feel unique and fun.

This is a leap of faith that I personally feel will be well rewarded.


Pretty much my response being the same. They neglected BGG, and I completely empathize why. But we have seen a good deal of characters in the videos.

I would though in retrospect add that if the are waiting to do the MK and Dragon Ball versions of the system, it is smart to let the reviews of Street Fighter do the sales for them when reviews come out. If the were being lazy with the design they likely would have tried releasing MK before SF was released.

Also Joe Vargas has a good record as a content creator for me, and his Board Game passion and clear design talent from what we have seen, paired with the approval process makes me comfortable with everthing we have seen too.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Beiter
United States
Tonawanda
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Agreed Captain Peach.

I would gladly back a game from a super passionate gamer any day because you KNOW they won't let you down. I've backed a ton of kickstarters and I can tell they will deliver.

It just sucks because the salesman/marketing side of my brain is like, How could you try to sell an extra 16 characters without giving us ANY info on them???
It's bonkers.

But this project has a lot of passionate people involved. They may have dropped a marketing ball that will no doubt cost them some sales, but in the end, I expect backers will be very happy with all characters created and want more in the future.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike A
United States
Iowa
flag msg tools
I am generally full of shit.
badge
Some watery tart threw a sword at me.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sure, there's a decent chance the gameplay won't be as great as we all want it to be. At the same time, given active developments for follow-up MK and DBZ releases in the same system, the devs and Jasco appear to be fully behind the series and will likely put in a lot of effort to make this initial release amazing, otherwise it kills future projects.

This release is KS exclusive, and price-per-fighter is more than reasonable if you consider the relative cost of SF standalone decks in Exceed. If the Kickstarter work out well then aftermarket purchase price might get silly expensive. I also see limited downside in resell if the gameplay stinks given many folks will pay good money just for the miniatures.

I'm getting it all and we'll see how it goes. Nothing is guaranteed in life, even more so on Kickstarter.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Captain Peach
msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Probably the same way nearly every other kickstarter from even larger companies seem to just have add-ons without any real detail on development of them.

I doubt the marketing costs them an real noticeable sales tbh. The game was covered everywhere and they had way more varied gameplay than literally an other kickstarter.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Captain Peach
msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
sh4mike wrote:
Sure, there's a decent chance the gameplay won't be as great as we all want it to be. At the same time, given active developments for follow-up MK and DBZ releases in the same system, the devs and Jasco appear to be fully behind the series and will likely put in a lot of effort to make this initial release amazing, otherwise it kills future projects.

This release is KS exclusive, and price-per-fighter is more than reasonable if you consider the relative cost of SF standalone decks in Exceed. If the Kickstarter work out well then aftermarket purchase price might get silly expensive. I also see limited downside in resell if the gameplay stinks given many folks will pay good money just for the miniatures.

I'm getting it all and we'll see how it goes. Nothing is guaranteed in life, even more so on Kickstarter.


Actually if you look at the inspiration for the system, the UFS Card Game, all the characters there are very different feeling so I trust given that and Joe Vargas, the gameplay will meet high expectations.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ondrej Kocnar
Czech Republic
Prague
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
sh4mike wrote:


This release is KS exclusive, and price-per-fighter is more than reasonable if you consider the relative cost of SF standalone decks in Exceed. If the Kickstarter work out well then aftermarket purchase price might get silly expensive. I also see limited downside in resell if the gameplay stinks given many folks will pay good money just for the miniatures.

I'm getting it all and we'll see how it goes. Nothing is guaranteed in life, even more so on Kickstarter.


Sure the pricing seems pretty reasonable (but remember that KS should provide discounts) for the content promised, but investment asked for is much steeper and more uncertain than with Exceed.
Exceed is pretty expensive, but quite proven and Season 3 fighters were previeved extensively etc.

Silver lining is that if the mechanics bomb you can still use the very probably nice and shiny figures for your Exceed games (I think that the 2D stage fits exactly). So there is reason to get SF: MG even if you love Exceed and think that the Joe´s game will be mediocre, but it might get very expensive and not very satisfying.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ondrej Kocnar
Czech Republic
Prague
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
cjpeach2004 wrote:


I would though in retrospect add that if the are waiting to do the MK and Dragon Ball versions of the system, it is smart to let the reviews of Street Fighter do the sales for them when reviews come out. If the were being lazy with the design they likely would have tried releasing MK before SF was released.

Also Joe Vargas has a good record as a content creator for me, and his Board Game passion and clear design talent from what we have seen, paired with the approval process makes me comfortable with everthing we have seen too.


Ok, that they seem to have big future plans sooths me a bit. The problem I see is that lot of people seem to celebrate this game just for the minis and they (including reviewers) will be satisfied with mediocre game because it has "shiny".

It is Vargas´ first game as far as I know, which is not super reasuring.
The design as seen in the videos looked ok, but does not guarantee for example that other fighters won´t be boringly similar.

Are you sure that approval process will check if it is a good game or not? Did not Capcom licensed some very bad products in the past?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Captain Peach
msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
I see no one celebrating the game for the minis. I see really, people excited about the Miniature Quality, but also excited about the game itself. I doubt any large number of people spent 300 plus just to display some Street Fighter Minis on their shelf.

Also, someone's first, second or even fifth design doesn't really matter... god designers can pump out a good game from game #1 on. How well received is Founders of Gloomhaven vs Gloomhaven? My point being someone's first/second/third design doesn't guarantee/assure or mean anything. Joe is a critic of games, both physical and digital, so I would trust in him protecting his brand, and not putting out something blah.

I do not see how the point about the designs in the videos is applicable. You really expect them to have all like 30+ fighters in videos? That is such an unrealistic expectation. What we see from the video is a pattern. A pattern of Joe and Alex developing a unique twist for each character within the system. Like E Honda powering his slap through the discard. My point is, the pattern from the videos shows a willingness to keep the system simple, but have each character twist within it. Like Balrogs style is 100% different from all the others.

With all of that said no, Capcom protects Street Fighter it seems and somewhat Resident Evil. These seem to give 0 cares to Megaman and other properties. But they damn sure protect the look and brand of Street Fighter.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Captain Peach
msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
okocnar wrote:
sh4mike wrote:


This release is KS exclusive, and price-per-fighter is more than reasonable if you consider the relative cost of SF standalone decks in Exceed. If the Kickstarter work out well then aftermarket purchase price might get silly expensive. I also see limited downside in resell if the gameplay stinks given many folks will pay good money just for the miniatures.

I'm getting it all and we'll see how it goes. Nothing is guaranteed in life, even more so on Kickstarter.


Sure the pricing seems pretty reasonable (but remember that KS should provide discounts) for the content promised, but investment asked for is much steeper and more uncertain than with Exceed.
Exceed is pretty expensive, but quite proven and Season 3 fighters were previeved extensively etc.

Silver lining is that if the mechanics bomb you can still use the very probably nice and shiny figures for your Exceed games (I think that the 2D stage fits exactly). So there is reason to get SF: MG even if you love Exceed and think that the Joe´s game will be mediocre, but it might get very expensive and not very satisfying.


Kickstarter should not provide anything but early access and the ability to support the creator bringing a project to life. Anything beyond that is extra and to expect it is not indicative of the system itself as many games (like Garphil Games) are cheaper at retail. There are more videos of Street Fighter being played than Exceed if you look at Kickstarter, the Twitch Channel at the time as well as youtube. Also Exceed is a really shallow and tiny game, so one would hope they did have more (they didn't) given how much easier it would be.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ondrej Kocnar
Czech Republic
Prague
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
cjpeach2004 wrote:
okocnar wrote:
sh4mike wrote:


This release is KS exclusive, and price-per-fighter is more than reasonable if you consider the relative cost of SF standalone decks in Exceed. If the Kickstarter work out well then aftermarket purchase price might get silly expensive. I also see limited downside in resell if the gameplay stinks given many folks will pay good money just for the miniatures.

I'm getting it all and we'll see how it goes. Nothing is guaranteed in life, even more so on Kickstarter.


Sure the pricing seems pretty reasonable (but remember that KS should provide discounts) for the content promised, but investment asked for is much steeper and more uncertain than with Exceed.
Exceed is pretty expensive, but quite proven and Season 3 fighters were previeved extensively etc.

Silver lining is that if the mechanics bomb you can still use the very probably nice and shiny figures for your Exceed games (I think that the 2D stage fits exactly). So there is reason to get SF: MG even if you love Exceed and think that the Joe´s game will be mediocre, but it might get very expensive and not very satisfying.


Kickstarter should not provide anything but early access and the ability to support the creator bringing a project to life. Anything beyond that is extra and to expect it is not indicative of the system itself as many games (like Garphil Games) are cheaper at retail. There are more videos of Street Fighter being played than Exceed if you look at Kickstarter, the Twitch Channel at the time as well as youtube. Also Exceed is a really shallow and tiny game, so one would hope they did have more (they didn't) given how much easier it would be.


I am thankful for any replies to my concerns, but your answers seem bit too much dismissive to me. I am not trashing this KS, I am just trying to be responsible with my money - the game looks very cool and promising, but it is a big investment(change rate of our currency to USD is not very good etc.).

I feel it was completely unnecessary to harshly criticize Exceed. Have you played it a lot ? This commentary seems quite appropriate here:

King of Odonata wrote:
Hatori1181 wrote:
I'd never heard of Exceed. It looks alright, but I don't see as much tactical gameplay as you do in the Street Fighter Minis game. Yeah, it's likely a quicker game, but with all the complaints of randomness, how is a deck of shuffled cards any better? Also, I see no real blocking mechanics, outside of 4 dedicated cards in a 40+ card deck, reducing your ability to react. It seems as if whoever is faster gets the upper hand, and can reliably punish their opponent with little to no fear of reprisal. That sounds frustrating. Far more frustrating than possibly whiffing on attack dice, since even if you whiff, you build meter, which can be used for other effects.


So many wrong assumptions here, not sure where to start.

Now BattleCON is the most luckless version of these fighting game card games, the luck in Exceed is not high either since you draw a lot of cards and can control the draw. Like many card games, a major skill in Exceed is using your hand of cards to the best of your abilities. And your cards have set damage, so you are not relying on dice to hope you do damage.

The tactical game play is actually huge because, like an actual 2-D Fighting video game, positioning is extremely important. You have to be in the correct position to land attacks as well as avoid your opponent. And the most powerful attacks tend to have the most restricted range requirements, making smart setup all that much more important.

Speed is important, but like actual fighting video games, some characters are faster than others and you have to figure out how to play against them. Slower characters tend to have more defensive options and more powerful attacks. As for blocking, each character has 4 standard cards that are defensive (Guard and Focus), 4 cards that are a mix that allow you to attack even if hit (Sweep and Spike), 2 cards that doubles as offense or defense (Cross), and usually two copies each of one or two unique cards that are defensive. But it takes more than just playing blocking cards to be defensive. Sometimes you need to focus on your position and stay away. Other times, you may bait your opponent into an attack

No fear of reprisal? I had one game when I was quick and aggressive and made one wrong move which ended up me getting hit for 10+ damage.

Exceed is a game where I guess you must play it yourself to really see how deep it is. Very seldom did I feel I had a bad hand and instead thought, how can I use this hand to my advantage? Even then, you have the option on your turn to basically redraw a full new hand at the cost of Force.


I think that Joe himself stated that BattleCON and Exceed are good games, but quite complex and that SF: MG will be more casual (which is OK by me).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Captain Peach
msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't see how anything I have said is dismissive. All of your concerns are factually addressed with information through the kickstarter and the tons of live streams they did during the campaign. You asked a series of questions and I answered with examples and opinions of how I felt about those examples given.

I don't think it was. Exceed was brought up by you, not myself, and I shared what I believe to be both an opinion, but also something factual about the game. After multiple plays I found it to be very small and shallow, both in scope and design.

Because you disliked me sharing my opinion on a game you brought up in comparison, I will avoid sharing my thoughts on Battlecon, but talk about unnecessary, Joe's opinion on either game has literally nothing to do with this thread.

But I believe investment and quality are subjective so I guess take from the answers multiple people have given as you will
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.