Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
6 Posts

Mage Knight Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Disintegrate - Multiple/Group Enemy Attacks rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: mageknightgroupcombat [+] [View All]
I have a question about grouping enemies for attacks, and how that interacts with the Disintegrate spell.

I was assaulting a city, and inside were three defenders:

--Altem Mages, Freezers (Fire Resistance), Guardsmen

It was at night, and during the Attack Phase I played Disintegrate powered by Red/Black Mana. The relevant text reads:

Play this only in the Attack phase of combat. Destroy target enemy. Other enemies get Armor -1.

I targeted the Altem Mages, killing them. I then went to apply the Disintegrate effects to the Freezers and Guardsmen:
--The Freezers have Fire Resistance and Disintegrate is a Red spell, so they are immune, right?
--The Guardsmen do not have Fire Resistance, so the spell should affect them, reducing their armor by 1, right?

I then attacked the Freezers/Guardsmen as a group. Once I declared them as a group, the Freezers gained Fortify and the Guardsmen gained Fire Resistance, correct? Does that mean that the Disintegrate spell would not affect the Guardsmen, or do you apply the -1 Armor effect before they are "grouped"?

Thanks!


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ethan Lang
msg tools
mb
Interesting question. I believe that the attacks are done sequentially. So you would kill the guy with Disintegrate and apply the armor debuff immediately. Then you would do the second attack and only then apply the resistance. So the armor debuff remains.

In the rules, attacks are separate, sequential actions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darren Smith
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Smarter people will need to answer, but the way I would think about it isn't that the guardsmen get fire resistance, but that while attacking as a group, my fire attack would be inefficient. So they wouldn't gain resistance to my spells, but fire attack does less damage.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Bauer
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
8Darren wrote:
Smarter people will need to answer, but the way I would think about it isn't that the guardsmen get fire resistance, but that while attacking as a group, my fire attack would be inefficient. So they wouldn't gain resistance to my spells, but fire attack does less damage.

Correct. Nothing is gained here. This is one of those instances where its really important that when grouping enemies together, resistances are not „shared“ or „gained“.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken
United States
Crystal Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think you have things partially right. Specifically, handling the spell - monsters with fire resistance don't suffer the effects of red spells. So any monster that does (like the Freezers) would not be affected by the armor reduction, but any monster without such resistance would.

Once you get to the grouping, you need to resist the urge to have monsters "gain resistance" and instead remember that resistance "makes attacks inefficient." Because you've created a group with at least one monster that has fire resistance, fire attacks will be ineffecient against that group. So any actual attack cards you play will be impacted and you'll adjust strength based on the type of attack, but you won't alter any other affects of anything like spells or abilities.

The latter point is subtle, but very important.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill K
United States
Unspecified
Maryland
flag msg tools
. . . then came the king's son, wounded, sore bestead, and weaponless, and saw the broken sword, hilt-buried in the dry and trodden sand, and ran and snatched it, and with battle shout lifted afresh, he hewed his enemy down . . .
badge
A spicebush swallowtail caterpillar that was roaming my neighborhood.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ThLizardKing wrote:
I targeted the Altem Mages, killing them. I then went to apply the Disintegrate effects to the Freezers and Guardsmen:
--The Freezers have Fire Resistance and Disintegrate is a Red spell, so they are immune, right?
--The Guardsmen do not have Fire Resistance, so the spell should affect them, reducing their armor by 1, right?
Correct.
From the Q&A Compendium:

Combat S33:—Fire & Ice Resistance—The rule about the "non-Attack/non-Block effects of red/blue Deed cards (and of Unit abilities that require red/blue mana) not affecting enemies with Fire/Ice Resistance" affects only seven cards: Ice Shield (stronger effect), Shield Bash (stronger effect), Exploding Shield, Chill & Lethal Chill, Demolish & Disintegrate, AMOTEP FREEZERS (blue-mana effect), and DELPHANA MASTERS (blue- and red-mana effects). You may wish to put a reminder mark on these cards, maybe a small blue or red pentagon.

In the Ultimate Edition of the game, the new cards Chilling Stare and Explosive Bolt are also limited by this rule.

If you face several enemies together, and some of them have Fire/Ice Resistance while others don't, you may still play these cards that affect all enemies (e.g., Demolish/Disintegrate), but only those enemies without the requisite Fire/Ice Resistances will be affected by the non-Attack/non-Block effects of these cards.

Quote:
I then attacked the Freezers/Guardsmen as a group. Once I declared them as a group, the Freezers gained Fortify and the Guardsmen gained Fire Resistance, correct?
No.
From the Q&A Compendium:

Combat S12:—Grouping Enemies—Per the rulebook, p. 8: If some of the chosen enemies are fortified (either because they are defending a fortified site, or because they have the fortified ability on their token), only Siege Attacks can be played. You can play Ranged Attacks only if none of the targeted enemies are fortified. ... If some of the enemies are fortified and some are not, you may want to deal with the unfortified ones with a separate attack (so you can use your Ranged Attacks). If some enemies have certain resistances and some not, you may want to deal with them with separate attacks, as the presence of a resistant enemy halves the value of all Attacks of the type it is resistant to.

When you group several enemy tokens together for an attack, those enemy tokens don't share abilities with each other. Rather, (1) the presence of any fortifications within the group restricts the types of attacks that are permissible against that group as a whole during the Ranged-and-Siege-Attack phase, and (2) the presence of Fire or Ice Resistance among any of the enemy tokens in that group may reduce the efficiency of (that is, halve the strength of) certain Attacks that are made against the entire group. These are the only two enemy token abilities that affect attacks directed against an entire group.

This means that if one enemy token in an attacked group has, say, the Elusive ability, that the armor values of the other enemy tokens in the group remain as they were. Likewise, the Defend ability doesn't propagate to the other enemy tokens, nor does the Unfortified ability (see entry S13 under Combat), etc.

And be sure to note that the immunity (against non-Attack/non-Block effects) which enemy tokens with Ice Resistance have against blue cards (and against Unit abilities powered by blue mana) also doesn't spread to the other enemy tokens in the same attacked group.

Quote:
Does that mean that the Disintegrate spell would not affect the Guardsmen, or do you apply the -1 Armor effect before they are "grouped"?
The latter.
From the Q&A Compendium:

Basic Action Cards S2:—Timing of EffectsEffects (aside from those effects that provide Move, Influence, Healing, Attack, or Block points) work immediately the instant they are played, no matter if the effects arise from cards, Skills, or Units. Effects cannot be delayed, and no other effects can be played before the current effect is fully processed.

Even effects which provide Attack points and Block points generally have to be used instantly. Exceptions can apply, though, if the wording suggests that those Attack and Block points will be available in future phases at a time subsequent to when the initial effect of the card (or Skill or Unit ability) is processed, such as with the cards Ambush and Dodge and Weave. (See entry S9 under Miscellaneous.)

S3:—Duration of EffectsIf an effect modifies some value or rule, that modification remains in effect until the end of your turn. [For players who only partially attend a PvP combat, presumably these effects will last until the end-of-turn sequence begins at the end of their first full turn.]
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.