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Unconditional Surrender! World War 2 in Europe» Forums » Strategy

Subject: German and Polish set-up Main Event rss

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Fred Buchholz
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Actually I am moving first part of this to rules questions so I'd like to start an "openings" a discussion:

Query: Is there a "better" placement for the Polish army other than historical?
Depending on what the Germans are allowed to do in set up this might be a frivolous discussion.
So let's assume I'm a lazy German and I just use the historical German unit placement.

What would be the optimum Polish Army set up?
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Peter Kossits
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Dren608 wrote:
Actually I am moving first part of this to rules questions so I'd like to start an "openings" a discussion:

Query: Is there a "better" placement for the Polish army other than historical?


Oh yeah! Definitely. I've actually had Poland survive 3 months with alternate set-ups.

The default setup has a handful of Polish units set up too far back to be of much use. I think they're mostly reduced units but they work very well as speedbumps if they're shifted further west.

Just checked the Playbook. The Polish unit in 2937 is out of play and needs to be moved.

2438 is another candidate although it's sort of guarding the east part of Poland. You can reposition him slightly so he also covers Warsaw and slows down German 16th army. .

Just stop the 2 Panzers from getting to Warsaw and you're probably looking at 2 turns. The little flat pocket of land between Lodz and Warsaw needs more than 1 unit starting in it. I want defenders in 2632/2633/2634.

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Bruce Tillotson
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Dren608 wrote:
What would be the optimum Polish Army set up?


Short answer: depends on the German setup.

Slightly longer answer: See below for an edited thread from Consimworld discussing this very question. This is from some notes I took when I first bought the game, so I don't have a link to the original discussion.

My own preference is to use GAR units as sacrificial roadblocks (say in Danzig), since they don't cost any NW when lost. However, they also can't hold out as long, so maybe that's a flawed strategy.

You can also see a slightly changed setup game here: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1947716/sal-vastamark-d...

------------

Consimworld Thread
So I've been reacquainting myself with the game by playing through the Poland scenario repeatedly. I figured it was a good way to pick up on some of the tactical nuances. When I played it originally, I only used the historical set-up and got easy wins as the Axis, but now that I am testing alternate army placements it doesn't seem like a sure thing. It could be that I'm a novice, but it seems like Poland can hold for at least a month even if Germany is willing to use all 12 sorties.

Specifically, it is all about Warsaw. Based on national will, Poland can lose all the other cities (4x2) and three field ground units (3x1) and both garrison units (2x1) and still not lose all 12 will. This means that Warsaw is all that matters and Germany really doesn't have that many units that can reach it if you set up good roadblocks. There are lots of choices but putting units in 2435, 2534, and Warsaw seems to work really well.

Obviously this isn't super important for real scenarios, but I'm curious if this strikes more experienced players as a reasonable approach.

RESPONSE
The historical setup isn't that bad for Polish forces, but yes, without Warsaw, the Axis needs to kill 4 Polish armies. Admittedly, that's possible since you have panzers and air combined. Poland doesn't usually last through the first month, but I've seen it happen. Either way, it's not the worst thing for the Axis.

RESPONSE
I've found the four dead is not that hard to achieve if you can surround a couple of Poles. The Polish setup seems to be a tradeoff between protecting Warsaw and not being surrounded. Using the rivers is also essential to force Germany to waste those precious panzer action points. But I haven't found a setup that allows the Poles to survive without getting very lucky.

I don't have time to Vassal but if you give your complete Polish setup, I'll gladly try attacking it on my table and report here.

RESPONSE
This may not be optimal, but I have been trying:
Full Units: 2332, 2534, 2435, 2635, 2733, 2933
Garrisons: 2631 and 2431

The only strategy is to clog the approach to Warsaw by using rivers as added defense. Again, it's entirely possible it's just my inexperience that is making this a semi-effect defense. The trick is that if you can even survive one month there is a 1 in 3 chance of severe weather for the full campaign.

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From your setup I realized a we have played the scenario wrong, which probably explains something here. We always have Poland set up first and Germany second, as in the main event (the main event also gives a list of hexes for the Germans, but there is a rule allowing you to setup them anywhere you want in Germany).

But it seems you are right, the Poland scenario actually has Germans setup first and only allows them to use a fixed setup, so you can create this kind of countering setup where you ignore Eastern Poland and pull the garrisons from there to help, which of course helps Poland a lot.

RESPONSE
Poland is only setup when Germany declares war on it.

Taking this into account, back to the topic: the setup given earlier seems like a very good answer to the default German setup, and you are right that defending Poland is pretty much about Warsaw (because eastern Poland is harder to attack than I thought). I think your setup also defends the rivers and the other cities a lot, though. The biggest difference to the default setup is that you have the additional garrisons in good use.

Maybe Germany will want to have another unit in the very east of Prussia to force Poland to defend Eastern Poland more, so they cannot afford as many road bumps against the panzers?

RESPONSE
For a German setup, all options on the table, I end up with one change to the rulebook setup, the German 14th sets up in 2433. Germans will forget about Krakow and look to eliminate 2 Polish armies instead on the way to Warsaw.

Then the Poles setup.
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Charles Finch
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after reading the above, i think it would be reasonable to house rule that the poles would never completely ignore the russians and need to set up at least 1 or 2 units to keep an eye on them...
they could have set up anywhere, it is their country, it is true (within limits of mobilization/transport time, but we'll ignore that); but there were certain other considerations you shouldn't completely ignore even in a free setup.
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Bruce Tillotson
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cfinchjr2 wrote:
after reading the above, i think it would be reasonable to house rule that the poles would never completely ignore the russians and need to set up at least 1 or 2 units to keep an eye on them...
they could have set up anywhere, it is their country, it is true (within limits of mobilization/transport time, but we'll ignore that); but there were certain other considerations you shouldn't completely ignore even in a free setup.


The Polish setup in the Main Event matches the historical Polish setup. There were no significant forces in the area that was later occupied by the Soviets. Presumably the Poles figured they had enough problems just stopping the Germans. Or perhaps they didn't have time to change anything, since the Nazi-Soviet Pact was signed just nine days before the invasion began.

https://historicalresources.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/camp...
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