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Subject: Owl & Shrike Catch 22 & Rules Questions... rss

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Abstract Strategy
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There is a classic Catch 22 here. If I don't buy the owl and the shrike then I don't have the rules for them... but if I don't know how they work, then how do I know if I want to buy them... This is an untenable situation. So, I have some questions:

1. If I buy the latest English language issue do I get these cards?
2. If so, how do I know if I am ordering a pack that contains them rather than an old pack like the one I have??
3. Can I buy them separately?
4. If I buy them separately, will the ink/design on the back of the cards match my pack??
5. I understand basically what they do but concerning the owl, does the player put the card that the owl replaces back in his hand and then play it next turn or does s/he re-play it immediately?
6. Also, can the owl be played on the central card, causing the central card to move?
7. If so, what about a 4-player game? Can the owl be played on the special central card and cause it to move along with its special berry tokens?

Any help with these questions would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
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1. They're available in the geekstore.
2. They're not in the retail version. Visit the geekstore
3. Yes, in the geekstore.
4. Yes it does, but in my FR version they're slightly miscut.
5. No, you move the card in another spot and put the owl in the spot. That's your turn. Then it's next player's turn.
6. I'm assuming you mean with 4 players? I don't think this is covered in the rules. I would assume you cannot but that would be an interesting interaction. I think it only moves a bird so I'd say it can't.
7. Well see above. In a normal game yeah, sure, why not?
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Abstract Strategy
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Thanks so much for your help. See, that bothers me too. Even if I buy the extension pack, I still won't actually know the intended rules completely!!! You know I'm going to end up buying it but it annoys me that game rules in general tend not to cover obvious questions like this.

I recently read an article that said in order to make game rules better and clearer it is better to concentrate on telling the player what s/he CAN do rather than what s/he CAN'T. I largely disagree.

If there are specific things that the rules, as presented, might otherwise suggest are legal but which are not intended to be legal, the game creators need to tell people. The problem is that it leaves an open question in the mind of the player. 'So, can I do thing x or not'? If a game creator doesn't want me to do something which all other rules suggest I might be able to then they need to tell me so, specifically, not just assume I might guess that they didn't want me to because the situation was slightly different and I should be able to read minds.

THANK GOODNESS FOR BGG and the excellent community spirit.
 
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Abstract Strategy
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Another question which occurs to me is: 'Can you play the Owl on the Shrike'????
 
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Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
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My rule of thumb is that if the rules don't explicitely tell you you can't do something, it's because you can.

Of course, in the defined boundaries of the game.
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So, the rules don't say whether you can or can't move the shrike using the owl, then?
 
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Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
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So the rules say if you play with 4 with these birds you shouldn't use a special card, so you won't be able to move the center card

They don't say that you can't move the shrike.
I'm thinking they're not supposed to be played together, but they don't specify that.

So I'd wager that if you move the shrike, since it is first removed from the tableau and then played again (that's how the owl works) you get to rearrange the berries again.
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Ok. Thanks heaps! That's very helpful!
 
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Just out of interest, I have visited the Geek Store, as I am till trying to decide if it's worth it to buy them. It's a pretty good game as it stands. The listing for the Owl and Shrike there says:

Quote:
OWL: When you play the Owl from your hand, you must remove a Songbird card in the forest and place the Owl in that space. Then, place the Songbird card you have removed back into the forest using the standard placement rules. If you keep this card as your favored songbird, your score is 0.

SHRIKE: When played, swap the berries in the Shrike's row and column. Bird orthogonally adjacent to the Shrike are worth -1.


This begs the question: What happens if you are left with the Shrike in your hand as your favoured songbird? Do you also score 0 or do you score -1??
 
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Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
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AbstractStrategy wrote:
This begs the question: What happens if you are left with the Shrike in your hand as your favoured songbird? Do you also score 0 or do you score -1??


You get zero.
It is not recommended.
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Thankyou. :-)
 
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Ludovic Nieres
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[q="Razoupaf"]
4. Yes it does, but in my FR version they're slightly miscut.

Is the difference between the backs of the cards very visible, or is this visible only if you examine precisely these backs? I will surely buy the french version and I really wondered about buying also owl and shrike a little bit later...

Thank you for answering

Lodov
 
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Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
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It's up to your appreciation. If you know what you're looking for it's visible. If you don't it doesn't show. It's a 1mm discrepency on size of the white border on the back.



It's the one on the right.
 
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Ludovic Nieres
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Yes, got it and saw it...
Wonder if all cards would have this difference, anyway.

Thank you for answering
 
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