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Subject: Compatibility with older expansions rss

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Alex Mercer
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I posted this on another thread, but I'd like to know what people think of the compatibility (both physically and thematically) for older expansions and Forbidden Fortress:

From what I can gather...
Any of the otherworlds should be fine and kind of add mines as an additional other-world as they have enough tile/cards to make it worthwhile. Some modified base-set monsters have tokens in case you don't have that base set?

Mission Packs seem to come with an objective mine tile. Is that important, or is it just one scenario (out of 6?). Will it kind of fit as a special room in FoFo if necessary (I know it will physically but will it look stupid?)

I assume there's nothing in the enemy packs that will not work, except things like the Trederran Raiders won't have an otherworld card for the Belly of the Beast/Forest of Shadows (though could sleeve and back to back it with a duplicate).

Am I right in thinking anything that mentions a world name is confined to that world? i.e. Guardian of Targa? I'd avoid certain ones anyway as they seem linked to the old West a bit too thematically (Scafford Gang etc).

Frontier Town obviously completely breaks themes, on the off chance I ever see it for 75% off would it be worth it as an alternate town to visit, or does it rely on location sheets/tokens etc. in the original cores?

What about the card packs, ignoring the ones specific to otherworlds, is something like 'Treasures of the Void' mostly non-western themed (I don't mind an occaisional western firearm showing up as an oddity, but don't want to flood the deck with them).
 
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Paul Newby
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Great question. I'm in the same boat as you.

I purchased:

Scourge Rats (rats are rats right?! )
Hell Vermin

And the Swamps base set as I wanted the swamps otherworld primarily.

Then I bought all the swamp related expansions (Slugs, Raptors, card packs etc.)

I may use the mines as an otherworld purely because they came with the Swamps base game, but I'm tempted to buy Blasted Wastes and use the Canyons instead - in addition to the wastes. Two otherworlds for one seems like good value.

But, then I might have to purchase the sand kraken, hydra, etc because I feel they are more thematic based in the canyons than the tight confines of the mines.. Oh dear, it's becoming expensive. Initially I just planned on have FoFo as the main theme with four other worlds:

Belly of the Beast
Swamps
Mines/Canyons
Forest of the Dead

Four otherworlds is enough for me. And by the time I've painted them - sheesh.

I am also considering Masters of the Void, but I'm concerned all the cards are for the mines only...

Interested to hear any veteran players advice.

Cheers.
 
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Dillon Flaherty
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There's a lot of different ways you can do it, but given the nature of the universe of Shadows of Brimstone - I just mix everything. There's gates all over, so to me it does make sense that enemies like the Scafford Gang would be rolling through those gates to other worlds, Forbidden Fortress included!

Conveniently, the base FoFo box even gives you a "mines" otherworld card - so if you did want to keep things specific to western/mines, you could do so even without the base game. Just use gates to access mines as an OtherWorld and then populate with those enemies.

The main thing that would be tricky there would be the Mission Packs, as you mentioned, but even though it would look goofy you could just drop that tile into FoFo tiles for the sake of playing it.

There's enough weird mixed stuff already by nature of the game's setting - so I always suggest just going for it!
 
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Paul Newby
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I totally get the 'all you can eat' buffet style of just throw it all in, but personally, I want my Samurai to primarily be challenged by Oriental enemies, encounters and such and therefore pick up Japanes loot, etc.

When he goes to an Otherworld, I try to remain thematic for that too, as I mentioned above. So the the swamps primarily contain swampy stuff and creatures - with a little bit of bleed over into the fortress (threat cards) for the creatures that do wander in there over time, thematically.

It's just my preference, and that's how I've bought my stuff so far. I'm not really into aliens from a derelict ship wandering around the fortress even though you make a good case as to why they would!

Cheers.
 
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Alex Mercer
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I mean my master plan is to not buy anything until I've painted it all (just basic Sumo at the moment), by which time my Wolf Pledge might be on it's way (unless I upgrade it when the pledge manager comes out).

But that may go out of the window if I see something shiny on sale somewhere.

I'm kind of thinking that I may go for the Feudal Village expansion when that's out in the wild though.

Also I kind of do like the idea of aliens, Trederran Raiders, Blasted Wastes and Derelict ship are all on my watch list.
 
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Jee Fu
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The more I try to codify specific rules for what can appear where, what missions can start where, and which things are specific to which other things that more I inch closer to Dillion's solution. I don't think I'll ever actually get there, because homogenizing the base worlds dilutes the theme unacceptably (you wouldn't combine all the Otherworld stuff together would you?), but I'm starting to grow weary of the burden this is imposing - and I totally get the rationale behind the mad-mix solution.

The rules do help us a little with keeping things separate (there is a blurb that recommends you keep everything with an Lotus icon specific to Worlds with a Lotus icon), but this doesn't help with Missions. In theory, any Mission that starts in the Mines can also start in the Fortress - and vice versa - but often the Mission flavor text is so specific to the theme of the World it's "supposed" to start in that it ruins this hand-wavy-woo. To combat this I can either:

1) Make a giant list of which Missions are polymorphic and which Missions aren't, from all possible Missions.

2) Apply the general rule that ALL of them that start in a Base world can start in ANY Base world, and just make up new Mission flavor text for the ones that don't make sense

3) Enforce the starting worlds as detailed by the Mission

None of these are ... optimal solutions. The first and second require the players to take on the role of game designers**. The third option is acceptable since it's pretty consistent mechanically, but it's inconsistent thematically AND limits compatibility (why are 3/4ths of the Otherworlds easier to get to from the Old West?).

- Jee

** Normally, I would actively pursue game-design happily but I'm already doing this for Brimstone in enough other ways that my weariness is starting to outweigh my enthusiasm. Sometimes I just want to play the game I'm expecting to play without having to do the legwork to make it consistent, robust, or thematically apropo. I do feel for FFP on this - I'm sure they feel the same way sometimes all the time. Brimstone is a unruly monster (especially now) and as such, they're stuck with the same development issues that modern MMO designers are stuck with: do we go back and fix stuff, or do we create new content and just let the players deal. In the Board Game world, the second option becomes much more attractive because unlike in Video Games the players can simply fix your game for you if any bugs make it through the cracks - better to keep the new and shiny comin'. This is the path to the Dark Side tho, as anyone who has played Descent 1st Ed can tell you; there comes a moment when your game is so cluttered with paradoxes and inconsistencies that it is beyond fixing and requires you to start over. The CoOp nature of Brimstone affords some protection against this, because players tend to become frustrated with holes in the rules less often when they're not playing against each other (I am not like this; unhandled exceptions earn my ardor regardless). Either way, if you prioritize content over rules then your end-game is "Tabletop RPG", not "Board Game".

- Jee
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Troy Gustavel
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Quote:
Am I right in thinking anything that mentions a world name is confined to that world? i.e. Guardian of Targa?


For the most part. The Trederran Raiders are specifically Trederran teams the venture into other worlds to steal DS, they have threat cards for all the original worlds, but not Trederra itself. I think that’s the only exception though.

Quote:
I am also considering Masters of the Void, but I'm concerned all the cards are for the mines only...


Masters of the void is a mic, generic expansion. The enemies fit pretty well anywhere. There might be some gear or artifacts that come with them that seem western themed, but I don’t think so.

Plus, they cast void magic spells, which are also cast by the fallen sorcerers in Japan, so you can double the available spells for those two enemies by having both.
 
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Neil Edmonds
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Enemies are restricted to worlds solely by their threat cards. So if the Targa Guardian only appears on Targa Otherworld Threat cards, you're not going to see the Targa Guardian when drawing Cynder Otherworld cards. There's nothing stopping you from making your own cards though, nor is there anything preventing Flying Frog from doing this themselves.

I think Flying Frog mixed themes ala Heroscape because:

1.) If they didn't offer the option, some fans would ask for it anyway.

2.) It could stimulate sales of existing expansion sets (eg - customers that passed on the Western sets may buy them because they own the Asian, Spanish, or Norse sets). I'd imagine moving more volume through the wholesale and retail channels would allow Flying Frog to focus on specific settings because of increased demand.

I see the appeal of offering different core sets, but I also realize that the enemies and Otherworlds aren't going to change just because I'm playing a Samurai or a Viking, so that made it easy for me to pass on those sets. Now I'm just waiting for BRIMSTONE ADVENTURES PIRATES edition.
 
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Paul Newby
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This is why I'm trying to keep a fairly limited selection based around Fofo.

I only bought into Shadows because of the release of Fofo. I wasn't really interested in the wild west theme prior to that.

It's the flaming otherworlds that are the problem I'm trying so hard to keep to the few I listed above. But it's so tempting to get Blasted Wastes plus all the cards and Xl enemies that go with it - that and the canyons.. Nightmare.

Masters of the Void is really appealing to me but seems to be like gold dust to get hold of at the minute.

Inspector Jee's post above is why I'm not even considering any of the mission packs. They would just send me over the edge. As it stands I'm fairly happy with my thematic approach. Now if FFP were to release compatibility decks for some of their otherworlds that aligned them to Fofo as opposed to the mines, well then I might as well remortgage my house!

Cheers.
 
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Alex Mercer
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What I would like is if they slotted Belly of the Beast (& Forest of Shadows?) cards for Trederran raiders and other thing not specifically tied to one otherworld).
 
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Pete & SO
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I started a new campaign recently, and now have to deal with FoFo as well. I decided this time around to play all the official missions in some order, and after my current game I will always play the four heroes (out of 19) with the lowest XP. If the mission allows for it, the majority of heroes will decide the starting world, Old West or Forbidden Fortress. Otherwiese, a bunch of cowboys will start cleaning out the oriental fortress, so what.
 
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Rob H
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I guess there is a light and a heavy way to approach this.

Brimstone itself is a wide open interconnected web of multiple universes. It is a Stargate or Heroscape type property where themes are meant to mingle. To many, it is part of the draw.

That said one could try to box off themes. It is sort of easy now with Far East or Old West, but it will get harder once Conquistadors and Vikings (each having content intimately tied to previous Other Worlds) enter the fray.

The light way of approaching this is to isolate East from West. Keep gear and artifacts of mine or fortress isolated. You can move heroes between, but treat each as an "other world" and pay attention to each deck like other, other worlds. The whole Lovecraft universe should encourage and allow Void enemies to be everywhere. Mine enemies stay in the mines, other world enemies in other worlds. This should all work. Even missions should work if you treat East and West as a sub-other world hub before venturing. That is portal to a Frontier Town from anywhere (Fortress or Terderra, whatever) before going on a Vampire mission. Basically, think of it as an episode of Stargate. That's what Brimstone is, or is becoming.

The heavy way is just to mix wildly. There are no East, West, Conquistador, or Viking hubs. The world is no longer themes as universes bleed into each other. This is a sort of Star Trek time continuum problem episode or a Spider-Man Spiderverse type thing. But this feels a bit too much to me.

If I was wanting to stay East and avoid West, focus on Void stuff and other worlds only.

However, besides theme, all the critters and packs offer cool wrinkles to the same core system. This game thrives off more. More of everything. You would be selling yourself short not experiencing Werewolf bites or the regenerating heads of a mutated snake-hydra. Just keep them from dropping a Katana and enjoy the ride.
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Max Caine
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What makes Trederra especially interesting from a compatibility point of view is that the other three otherworlds are considered "passive", that is, you go and visit them whereas Trederra is an "active" otherworld - it comes and visits you! The bit of Shadows bling that is the Doomsday Device has a mission that specifically has you penetrating a Trederran forward operations base set up in your homelands to shutdown the aformentioned Doomsday Device. It's possible to justify Trederrans arriving en masse in FoFo as they set up camp in an abandoned fortress. You could do any of the basic missions using the Trederran otherworld threat deck instad of the normal threat deck to simulate attacking a Trederran foothold in Japan.
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Adam Mitchell
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spinningdice wrote:
I posted this on another thread, but I'd like to know what people think of the compatibility (both physically and thematically) for older expansions and Forbidden Fortress:

From what I can gather...
Any of the otherworlds should be fine and kind of add mines as an additional other-world as they have enough tile/cards to make it worthwhile. Some modified base-set monsters have tokens in case you don't have that base set?

Mission Packs seem to come with an objective mine tile. Is that important, or is it just one scenario (out of 6?). Will it kind of fit as a special room in FoFo if necessary (I know it will physically but will it look stupid?)

I assume there's nothing in the enemy packs that will not work, except things like the Trederran Raiders won't have an otherworld card for the Belly of the Beast/Forest of Shadows (though could sleeve and back to back it with a duplicate).

Am I right in thinking anything that mentions a world name is confined to that world? i.e. Guardian of Targa? I'd avoid certain ones anyway as they seem linked to the old West a bit too thematically (Scafford Gang etc).

Frontier Town obviously completely breaks themes, on the off chance I ever see it for 75% off would it be worth it as an alternate town to visit, or does it rely on location sheets/tokens etc. in the original cores?

What about the card packs, ignoring the ones specific to otherworlds, is something like 'Treasures of the Void' mostly non-western themed (I don't mind an occaisional western firearm showing up as an oddity, but don't want to flood the deck with them).


Let me try to answer your questions.

The extra room tile is generally necessary for at least one of the four missions in each mission pack; most of those tiles would indeed look odd in Forbidden Fortress, and the mission pack enemies and cards are pretty centered on the Old West.

In the basic enemy packs, yes, there is nothing that won't work. The Deluxe Enemy packs, however, include Artifact cards, and these are backed as "Mine Artifact", not "Fortress" Artifact (of course, if you sleeve your Artifact deck, this won't matter, but it certainly matters if you don't!).

Not necessarily; the Custodians of Targa have also found their way into the Mines.

Frontier town would definitely be worth it to visit in the Mines or Canyons Otherworld, and it is complete in and of itself.

Treasures of the Void has the same problem with the backs of the Artifact cards, in that they are marked "Mine Artifact". Other than that it is not overly Western-themed.

 
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Adam Mitchell
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Inspector Jee wrote:
The third option is acceptable since it's pretty consistent mechanically, but it's inconsistent thematically AND limits compatibility (why are 3/4ths of the Otherworlds easier to get to from the Old West?).
- Jee


How is it inconsistent thematically? I don't do any pure Old West missions in Japan, or vice versa, but to I can quite easily justify doing all of the Other World-centered missions in Japan as well as in the Old West; I see no thematic conflict in, say, having a Japanese party wind up in Targa and have to shut down the super-advanced "boilers" before they explode in "Overload".

And I can answer that last question! Think of the multiverse as a vast series of orbs connected by lines. Those orbs are worlds and the lines are portals between them. While the West is closer to the center of the web, Japan is on the outermost fringe, connected only to the Belly of the Beast, the Mines, and the Forest of the Dead. All three of these worlds connect to the rest of the reachable worlds, which are further into the web.
 
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Paul Newby
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Plenty of ideas in this discussion, but I'm still with the OP about maintaining a theme between different worlds/otherworlds.

Now what I really need from you guys is a definitive answer on whether or not to add Blasted Wastes and using the canyons instead of the mines as one of my otherworlds (so I can buy the Hydra and Kraken!).

Also, does anyone remove threat deck cards to maintain not only theme but prevent saturation? By that I mean not including epic enemies in any other threat level deck?

Oh and also how on earth do you decide which order to play the missions? There are so many once you buy enemy packs.

Not too much to ask eh?
 
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Adam Mitchell
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DistantOasis wrote:

Masters of the void is a mic, generic expansion. The enemies fit pretty well anywhere. There might be some gear or artifacts that come with them that seem western themed, but I don’t think so.

Plus, they cast void magic spells, which are also cast by the fallen sorcerers in Japan, so you can double the available spells for those two enemies by having both.


I would like to point out, however, that the Fallen Sorcerers are considerably more powerful than the Void Sorcerers, and they also have the stronger Void Spells. I personally see no need for Void Sorcerers in Japan, given the superiority of the Fallen Sorcerers (I thrive on challenge, and would be disappointed every time I got a Void Sorcerer and not a Fallen Sorcerer if I mixed the former into my Forbidden Fortress Threat decks).

Here are the Enemies whom I would argue fit thematically in Forbidden Fortress Threat decks:

1. Trederran Raiders and Harvesters (they get EVERYWHERE!)
2. The Trederran Incursion card (if the Raiders visit your world, you have to be prepared for a heavier incursion sometimes)
3. The Flesh Stalker and his Flesh Drones, who travel throughout time and space.
4. The Void Hounds, who do likewise.
5. The Serpentmen and the Shaman, since we know there is a portal to Jargono just off the coast that the Spanish are using to invade the Swamps; it only makes sense that there would be other portals to Jargono and that Serpentmen would strike back through them.
6. Slashers, Trun Hunters, Hellbats and Swamp Slugs. They go through the Jargono portals to the Mines, so why not go through to Japan?
7. Succubi and Magma Fiends. The latter have their own FoFo Threat cards. The former do not, but again, if they venture into the Mines, why wouldn't they venture into Japan?
8. The Crimson Hand (they, too, get everywhere)
9. Void Spiders-How can you have a Jorogumo Spider Queen and NOT want these little guys around too?
 
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Adam Mitchell
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Khula wrote:
Plenty of ideas in this discussion, but I'm still with the OP about maintaining a theme between different worlds/otherworlds.

Now what I really need from you guys is a definitive answer on whether or not to add Blasted Wastes and using the canyons instead of the mines as one of my otherworlds (so I can buy the Hydra and Kraken!).

Also, does anyone remove threat deck cards to maintain not only theme but prevent saturation? By that I mean not including epic enemies in any other threat level deck?

Oh and also how on earth do you decide which order to play the missions? There are so many once you buy enemy packs.

Not too much to ask eh?


Blasted Wastes is one of my favorite Other Worlds, so I can hardly argue AGAINST adding it! Just realize, that if you want to properly populate the Canyons, you'll be adding several Old West enemy sets, too. Do you have enough disposable income?

Glad you clarified that question, but sad that it's still confusing anyway! Most Epic Threats are not found in Low, Medium or High Threat cards. Foe example, you'll only ever encounter a Goliath as an Epic Threat. There are plenty of Epic Enemies marked as belonging to a specific Other World, however, such as the Swamp Raptor and Serpentman Grand Shaman. I take these cards from the main Threat deck and make my own little Jargono Epic Threat deck, Trederra Epic Threat deck, etc.

I posted a good thematic stringing together of the available missions once upon a time here. Where was it again? Oh, yes! https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1625261/thematic-campaign-l...

The most important things to remember about the order you play the missions is to play the Targa missions as your first Other World missions, since that place is a treasure trove of valuable artifacts, many of which will help you survive worse dangers later on. Jargono is good to visit as the next OW, since it has several nice Armor Artifacts. Lastly, Trederra is the most lethal Other World by far; I recommend visiting it no sooner than Hero Level 5, and no later than Hero Level 6, if you want to livedevil.

 
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Paul Newby
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Solan wrote:
Khula wrote:
Plenty of ideas in this discussion, but I'm still with the OP about maintaining a theme between different worlds/otherworlds.

Now what I really need from you guys is a definitive answer on whether or not to add Blasted Wastes and using the canyons instead of the mines as one of my otherworlds (so I can buy the Hydra and Kraken!).

Also, does anyone remove threat deck cards to maintain not only theme but prevent saturation? By that I mean not including epic enemies in any other threat level deck?

Oh and also how on earth do you decide which order to play the missions? There are so many once you buy enemy packs.

Not too much to ask eh?


Blasted Wastes is one of my favorite Other Worlds, so I can hardly argue AGAINST adding it! Just realize, that if you want to properly populate the Canyons, you'll be adding several Old West enemy sets, too. Do you have enough disposable income?

Glad you clarified that question, but sad that it's still confusing anyway! Most Epic Threats are not found in Low, Medium or High Threat cards. Foe example, you'll only ever encounter a Goliath as an Epic Threat. There are plenty of Epic Enemies marked as belonging to a specific Other World, however, such as the Swamp Raptor and Serpentman Grand Shaman. I take these cards from the main Threat deck and make my own little Jargono Epic Threat deck, Trederra Epic Threat deck, etc.

I posted a good thematic stringing together of the available missions once upon a time here. Where was it again? Oh, yes! https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1625261/thematic-campaign-l...

The most important things to remember about the order you play the missions is to play the Targa missions as your first Other World missions, since that place is a treasure trove of valuable artifacts, many of which will help you survive worse dangers later on. Jargono is good to visit as the next OW, since it has several nice Armor Artifacts. Lastly, Trederra is the most lethal Other World by far; I recommend visiting it no sooner than Hero Level 5, and no later than Hero Level 6, if you want to livedevil.



Aaargh. You're killing me. All great ideas and points. I'm definitely now creating otherworld thematic threat decks (including epic), so thanks for that idea!

I'm sure I saw that Sho Riu can be met as a high level threat and not just epic - as can the swamp raptors and the Cannon, etc. I'm thinking of removing all potential to meet these kinds of enemies until i draw an epic card. In fact I'm now tempted to only encounter some of these epic enemies in their bespoke missions (if they have them of course).

Do I really need to buy the other base game of Cities of the Ancients? I was really hoping that swamps would be enough considering I'm using Fofo as my base game.
 
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Shelby Babb
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Don't forget: the Spaniards and cowboys are on the map (literally) where Forbidden Fortress is set. You could legitamitely use Frontier Town for your samurai to visit if you wanted (and from there, the Scafford Gang isn't a huge stretch).
 
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Khula wrote:
[q="Solan"][q="Khula"]

Aaargh. You're killing me. All great ideas and points. I'm definitely now creating otherworld thematic threat decks (including epic), so thanks for that idea!

I'm sure I saw that Sho Riu can be met as a high level threat and not just epic - as can the swamp raptors and the Cannon, etc. I'm thinking of removing all potential to meet these kinds of enemies until i draw an epic card. In fact I'm now tempted to only encounter some of these epic enemies in their bespoke missions (if they have them of course).

Do I really need to buy the other base game of Cities of the Ancients? I was really hoping that swamps would be enough considering I'm using Fofo as my base game.


No, that would be what you will say about Trederra, once you venture into it.

Thanks!

You only need to create a separate Other World Threat deck for Epic Threats; otherwise each Other World comes with its own thematic Low, Medium and High Threat deck, all on the same cards.

Nope. You can meet a dragon as a High Threat card, but you can only meet the Dragon King as an Epic Threat. And it my game, you can't even do that! Sho-Riu has an entire kingdom and army to run; even if he was interested in something as petty as kidnapping a Sorcerer's Apprentice or keeping a Void Gate open, he hasn't got the TIME! That's why I removed his card from the Epic Threat deck. If you want to kill Sho-Riu in my campaign, YOU must seek HIM out; you're not important enough for him to come to you. And the very challenging mission provided for trying to assassinate the Dragon King in his forward base, "Fire and Flame" seems to me like an excellent capstone mission to a campaign.

Now it's my turn to ask a question: Why would you want to remove the possibility of encountering a Raptor or Cannon outside of an Epic Threat card?

You certainly don't need to; just realize that you are passing up arguably the easiest and most profitable Other World.

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Max Caine
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Khula wrote:
Also, does anyone remove threat deck cards to maintain not only theme but prevent saturation? By that I mean not including epic enemies in any other threat level deck?


I do. I keep my threat decks fairly thin as in my experience you don't have that many battles per game (except Trederra), so thinning out the deck means being able to balance certain types of villain against each other, so there's a nice mix. The next game we're going Takobake - Spearmen, Riflemen, Summoners, Sorcerors, the Cannon and the Fallen Shogun. Haven't used most of them yet, only recently quired a Shogun pledge but you have what looks like a solid melee, 3 ranged, a new support class then it's a toss up between whether we face the Cannon or the Shogun. I doubt we're going to see everything but it's going to be fun.
 
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Jee Fu
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Solan wrote:
Inspector Jee wrote:
The third option is acceptable since it's pretty consistent mechanically, but it's inconsistent thematically AND limits compatibility (why are 3/4ths of the Otherworlds easier to get to from the Old West?).
- Jee


How is it inconsistent thematically? I don't do any pure Old West missions in Japan, or vice versa, but to I can quite easily justify doing all of the Other World-centered missions in Japan as well as in the Old West; I see no thematic conflict in, say, having a Japanese party wind up in Targa and have to shut down the super-advanced "boilers" before they explode in "Overload".

Sure, but Missions that guarantee a certain world are weighted toward the Mines. If portals open with an even world-distribution (which, according to the only official data we have on them, they do) then applying a strict interpretation about what missions start where will lead a universe that contradicts this. This is thematically inconsistent. I say this as a player who uses this method, because it's the most "official". But it certainly isn't Core Set consistent.

Solan wrote:
And I can answer that last question! Think of the multiverse as a vast series of orbs connected by lines. Those orbs are worlds and the lines are portals between them. While the West is closer to the center of the web, Japan is on the outermost fringe, connected only to the Belly of the Beast, the Mines, and the Forest of the Dead. All three of these worlds connect to the rest of the reachable worlds, which are further into the web.

Yes, you can indeed make up a thematic reason for why the world-spread is inconsistent, but now you're justifying and defending the notion that some Otherworld expansions (and Mission packs) are simply way less compatible than others with any given Core Set. This contradicts the notion of "full compatibility".

It's a small thing I guess. It's not like it's stopped me from playing or loving the game. The point I'm making is that if you want all the pieces in your game to be actually fully compatible with all the other pieces, then you're gonna need to do a non-zero amount of rule-tweaking - either inventing new rules outright or making more than a few assumptions about the mission design intent. This isn't a bad thing necessarily, but it is more work for the player.

- Jee
 
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Solan wrote:
Khula wrote:
[q="Solan"][q="Khula"]

Aaargh. You're killing me. All great ideas and points. I'm definitely now creating otherworld thematic threat decks (including epic), so thanks for that idea!

I'm sure I saw that Sho Riu can be met as a high level threat and not just epic - as can the swamp raptors and the Cannon, etc. I'm thinking of removing all potential to meet these kinds of enemies until i draw an epic card. In fact I'm now tempted to only encounter some of these epic enemies in their bespoke missions (if they have them of course).

Do I really need to buy the other base game of Cities of the Ancients? I was really hoping that swamps would be enough considering I'm using Fofo as my base game.


No, that would be what you will say about Trederra, once you venture into it.

Thanks!

You only need to create a separate Other World Threat deck for Epic Threats; otherwise each Other World comes with its own thematic Low, Medium and High Threat deck, all on the same cards.

Nope. You can meet a dragon as a High Threat card, but you can only meet the Dragon King as an Epic Threat. And it my game, you can't even do that! Sho-Riu has an entire kingdom and army to run; even if he was interested in something as petty as kidnapping a Sorcerer's Apprentice or keeping a Void Gate open, he hasn't got the TIME! That's why I removed his card from the Epic Threat deck. If you want to kill Sho-Riu in my campaign, YOU must seek HIM out; you're not important enough for him to come to you. And the very challenging mission provided for trying to assassinate the Dragon King in his forward base, "Fire and Flame" seems to me like an excellent capstone mission to a campaign.

Now it's my turn to ask a question: Why would you want to remove the possibility of encountering a Raptor or Cannon outside of an Epic Threat card?

You certainly don't need to; just realize that you are passing up arguably the easiest and most profitable Other World.



Yep, I see your point about removing the raptor, etc. My thoughts are that if any enemy has an epic card and lesser threat card variants as the dragon king does and raptors and so on, I wanted to only have the chance to meet them in an epic finale.

Not run into a lesser version in a standard threat deck along the way. I realise that this would lessen the chance of meeting them at all, but I plan on playing Fofo quite a lot over the next couple of years and so don't mind having enemies that I've not encountered yet (or might not ever do). I guess I enjoy the thrill of epic enemies being rare. But I understand why some of them come with high threat level cards also so that players can at least get the figure on the board - especially if they've spent ages painting it!

I guess that's another reason Shadows eventually appealed to me with the release of FoFo. It's emminently customisable.

I'm still determined to have a thematic approach to it all and your ideas have only reinforced that for me. So it's FoFo as the base and the four otherworlds I mentioned before, and thats enough for me. No mission packs either as they really seem tied to the original two base sets.

It's just the Blasted Wastes (and Hydra and Kraken) that are calling me siren song style! Blasted indeed And all because I prefer the thought of Canyons to the Mines...
 
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Khula wrote:
Solan wrote:
Khula wrote:
[q="Solan"][q="Khula"]

Aaargh. You're killing me. All great ideas and points. I'm definitely now creating otherworld thematic threat decks (including epic), so thanks for that idea!

I'm sure I saw that Sho Riu can be met as a high level threat and not just epic - as can the swamp raptors and the Cannon, etc. I'm thinking of removing all potential to meet these kinds of enemies until i draw an epic card. In fact I'm now tempted to only encounter some of these epic enemies in their bespoke missions (if they have them of course).

Do I really need to buy the other base game of Cities of the Ancients? I was really hoping that swamps would be enough considering I'm using Fofo as my base game.


No, that would be what you will say about Trederra, once you venture into it.

Thanks!

You only need to create a separate Other World Threat deck for Epic Threats; otherwise each Other World comes with its own thematic Low, Medium and High Threat deck, all on the same cards.

Nope. You can meet a dragon as a High Threat card, but you can only meet the Dragon King as an Epic Threat. And it my game, you can't even do that! Sho-Riu has an entire kingdom and army to run; even if he was interested in something as petty as kidnapping a Sorcerer's Apprentice or keeping a Void Gate open, he hasn't got the TIME! That's why I removed his card from the Epic Threat deck. If you want to kill Sho-Riu in my campaign, YOU must seek HIM out; you're not important enough for him to come to you. And the very challenging mission provided for trying to assassinate the Dragon King in his forward base, "Fire and Flame" seems to me like an excellent capstone mission to a campaign.

Now it's my turn to ask a question: Why would you want to remove the possibility of encountering a Raptor or Cannon outside of an Epic Threat card?

You certainly don't need to; just realize that you are passing up arguably the easiest and most profitable Other World.



Yep, I see your point about removing the raptor, etc. My thoughts are that if any enemy has an epic card and lesser threat card variants as the dragon king does and raptors and so on, I wanted to only have the chance to meet them in an epic finale.

Not run into a lesser version in a standard threat deck along the way. I realise that this would lessen the chance of meeting them at all, but I plan on playing Fofo quite a lot over the next couple of years and so don't mind having enemies that I've not encountered yet (or might not ever do). I guess I enjoy the thrill of epic enemies being rare. But I understand why some of them come with high threat level cards also so that players can at least get the figure on the board - especially if they've spent ages painting it!

I guess that's another reason Shadows eventually appealed to me with the release of FoFo. It's emminently customisable.

I'm still determined to have a thematic approach to it all and your ideas have only reinforced that for me. So it's FoFo as the base and the four otherworlds I mentioned before, and thats enough for me. No mission packs either as they really seem tied to the original two base sets.

It's just the Blasted Wastes (and Hydra and Kraken) that are calling me siren song style! Blasted indeed And all because I prefer the thought of Canyons to the Mines...


Your choice, of course, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it! To take one example, the young adult Swamp Raptor you can meet in Jargono is perhaps the deadliest non-Epic Threat in the entire game and, as a former friend of mine once pointed out, its presence in the Swamps deck adds a pleasing tension every time you have to draw a Jargono Threat card, since you're fervently hoping it's not the Dino Destroyerdevil.

Also, my favorite mission is a Mines mission from Caverns of Cynder, in which the Heroes are trying to hold a bridge against a continuing stream of Low Threat enemies. Ever since the option appeared, I have inevitably drawn a damaged Hell Cannon and seen it try to blast my Heroes off that bridge, which only adds to the fun and theme of an already excellent mission.

What I'm trying to say is that the presence of these enemies adds a lot to the game and it would be poorer without them.

As for the Canyons, don't forget the Dark Stone Scorpions too! They'll probably be available from the Flying Frog Online store on Easter.
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