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Dȗhr: The Lesser Houses» Forums » Rules

Subject: Adding scandals to non-favored houses and.... rss

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Joel Gabelman
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Just played our first game last night - interesting, and I bet we got some rules wrong.

1) Player 1 has a house out of favor (5 cards turned over). 2 scandals and 3 suspicions. Is there a way I can villify him? I wasn't sure how to replace a suspicion with a scandal. Masterstroke? I thought it was in the rules somewhere....

2) I had the Kardosa house (power = Conceal suspicion) and my Conspiracy card matched my House. I wasn't sure how this helped me.... So... I can use my house power on a concealed card.... ummmmm.... I don't follow...

-> I'm assuming my Conspiracy card has to be Revealed to use the ability on face down cards, otherwise, I can use the House ability as written. But... since all cards played are played face up, what ability does have a matching Conspiracy card give me in this situation?

3) I am NOT saying the games unbalanced after 2 players; just noting that it seems the power to conceal Scandal cards is better than the power to conceal Suspicion cards...

4) Is the Lycosia house the best? The ability to move scandals away from one house to ANY favored house was really strong in our games...

Thanks for the feedback! A little bit to wrap our head around, but by game 2 it flowed much better. Looking forward to trying this out once I get some additional clarity.

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Jim Felli
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Thanks for playing the game! I'll try and address your questions...

elmsley4 wrote:
1) Player 1 has a house out of favor (5 cards turned over). 2 scandals and 3 suspicions. Is there a way I can villify him? I wasn't sure how to replace a suspicion with a scandal. Masterstroke? I thought it was in the rules somewhere....

I'm assuming that the House you are referring to has 5 concealed cards (face down) on it. To vilify the House, you would need to manipulate its concealed cards to show 3 revealed scandals. You can approach this by:

a) Use a masterstroke to reveal (turn face up) the concealed scandal cards (turn them face up). Or...

b) Use a masterstroke to reveal concealed suspicion cards, then either move the suspicions off the House to open a place for a scandal, or convert the suspicions into scandals. The conversion would require the help of House Usari or a villain. Or...

c) Convince one or more villains to use their actions to reveal the concealed scandal cards. Or...

d) Convince one or more villains to use their actions to reveal concealed suspicion cards, then either move the suspicions off the House to open a place for a scandal, or convert the suspicions into scandals. The movement and conversion would require the help of Houses Deluras and Usari, or a villain.

e) Use the Blackmail card to force the House into a situation where they refuse to be blackmailed.

There are other corner cases that can help, but these approaches are the most obvious. Having 5 concealed cards puts a House in a very enviable position -- it will really require some deal making and careful manipulation to bring that House down.


elmsley4 wrote:
2) I had the Kardosa house (power = Conceal suspicion) and my Conspiracy card matched my House. I wasn't sure how this helped me.... So... I can use my house power on a concealed card.... ummmmm.... I don't follow...

-> I'm assuming my Conspiracy card has to be Revealed to use the ability on face down cards, otherwise, I can use the House ability as written. But... since all cards played are played face up, what ability does have a matching Conspiracy card give me in this situation?

Having a matching conspiracy card means that your House may use its ability on concealed cards as well as their basic targeted cards. House Kardosa can flip cards over, but this ability is limited to revealed suspicion cards. If House Kardosa had their own conspiracy card, their power would still be to flip cards over, but they could now target revealed suspicion cards AND concealed cards. This means that House Kardosa could use their ability to flip any concealed card over (i.e., face up to reveal it). If House Deluras had their own conspiracy card, they could move both suspicions AND concealed cards.


elmsley4 wrote:
3) I am NOT saying the games unbalanced after 2 players; just noting that it seems the power to conceal Scandal cards is better than the power to conceal Suspicion cards...

What is "better" really comes down to what people's agendas are... concealing a scandal makes is harder to vilify a House and swaps out a loss of 2 points (for a revealed scandal) for loss of 0 points (for a concealed card). The point effect is better than concealing a suspicion, which swaps out a loss of 1 point (for a revealed suspicion) for loss of 0 points. That said, your agenda might call for more villains than disfavored Houses, which would put greater value to you on concealing suspicions over scandals. Also, maintaining revealed scandals allows for more deal making opportunities with Houses Usari and Lycosia.

elmsley4 wrote:
4) Is the Lycosia house the best? The ability to move scandals away from one house to ANY favored house was really strong in our games...

We've had players win with every House. Sometimes, people gang up on House Lycosia immediately; sometimes House Usari undermines House Lycosia's ability; sometimes House Silgaro made brilliant deals... My suspicion (pun intended) is that you will find interesting and fun nuances with each House, especially if you can get a 6 player game going.

I hope these comments are helpful to you!
 
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Joel Gabelman
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Oh yeah!

Great help!

I made an error in question one - I realize I said a player had 5 cards turned over and this is wrong.

If Player 2 has 5 cards in front of them (assume all face up), and there are 2 Scandals and 3 Suspicion cards, how do I villify him? I can't recall if I can play a scandal (I believe I can't) b/c he already has 5 cards. My Agenda said if Player 2 is villified, I get a bonus and I didn't see how I could do it without enrolling the help of someone else who has a special ability.

Also - there is a power where you draw another suspicion hard for a player (Don't recall the power), but there were times where we were drawing a suspicion card from a power/ability, and drew an Event - there was some question what we do. We houseruled this and re-shuffled the event in the deck, then ultimately just took the face-up discarded suspicion card in the discard deck vs. drawing a new suspicion card. Is this the agreed best way to do this? Did we miss something?

Looking forward to getting this to the table again!

Thanks!

-Joel
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Jim Felli
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elmsley4 wrote:
I made an error in question one - I realize I said a player had 5 cards turned over and this is wrong.

If Player 2 has 5 cards in front of them (assume all face up), and there are 2 Scandals and 3 Suspicion cards, how do I villify him? I can't recall if I can play a scandal (I believe I can't) b/c he already has 5 cards. My Agenda said if Player 2 is villified, I get a bonus and I didn't see how I could do it without enrolling the help of someone else who has a special ability.

Ah! No, there is nothing that you can do unless you can convert a suspicion to a scandal (Usari), or move a suspicion off them (Deluras, Silgaro) and then slap a scandal into the vacated spot. This is a situation where you may need to make a deal with a villain or another House.

elmsley4 wrote:
Also - there is a power where you draw another suspicion hard for a player (Don't recall the power), but there were times where we were drawing a suspicion card from a power/ability, and drew an Event - there was some question what we do. We houseruled this and re-shuffled the event in the deck, then ultimately just took the face-up discarded suspicion card in the discard deck vs. drawing a new suspicion card. Is this the agreed best way to do this? Did we miss something?

That sounds like House Usari, converting a scandal to a suspicion. It says to use the top card from the Web of Suspicion. So, I understand your question to be: "What if the top card on the Web of Suspicion is an event card?"

If I had more forethought, I would have written this: "If the top card is an event card, discard that card and draw the next card from the Web of Suspicion."

It is important to draw down the Web of Suspicion (rather than take cards from the discard pile) to get used cards back into play.

Does that make sense?
 
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Joel Gabelman
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Makes perfect sense! Now I'm really motivated to get this back to the table while it's fresh in my mind. Also interested to try bemused... Thanks for the reply! I really appreciate it!

Joel
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