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Subject: A discussion about 54-card expansion packs rss

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Caleb Morton
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I have seen a few games come out with 54 card expansion packs that adds additional content to the game. I wanted to get an idea as to how people feel about these expansion packs.

What do you think of them? Do you like the additional content?

What would be an acceptable price point for these?
Example: Unstable Unicorns base game and little expansions:
- The base game has 135 cards (many are duplicates), $25.
- They released 4 54-card expansions (many duplicates) so far, $15/ea.
So in total, if you wanted all of this content, it would cost $85, and a lot of the cards are dups. Is this too many expansions? Do they cost too much?

Would an expansion pack with no duplicates be more valuable?

Do you have any other examples of games that have 54 card expansion packs?

 
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Rob Harper
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It depends on the game.
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Hedyn Brand
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(Damn it, somebody got me started on prices again!)

Prices vary greatly for card expansions. Here are some prices for a few games in my collection, for context:
- LCG packs, 60 cards: ~190 NOK (<$22)
- Legend of the Five Rings LCG clan packs, 78 cards: ~229 NOK (~$27)
- Warhammer:Underworlds warbands, 60 cards and some miniatures: ~190 NOK
- Warhammer:Underworlds card-only expansions, 60 cards: 110 NOK (~$13)
- Hero Realms character packs, 15(!) cards: 59 NOK (~$7)
- Scythe automa, may or may not include 23 extra cards on top of whatever the count is: 59 NOK
- Scythe Encounters, 32 cards: 269 NOK (~$32)
- Marvel Legendary small expansions, 100 cards: ~249 NOK (~$30)
- Marvel Legendary large expansions, up to 400 or so cards: 500-600 NOK ($59-$71)

In the case of FFG's prices, they tend to be a little more expensive per card outside the base sets. GW's prices are about the same when compared to base set prices, better when compared to FFG's games. Hero Realms and Scythe card expansions are just hugely overpriced here.

I feel that the smallest LCG packs for some games do little alone, but get two or three and the games feel a lot better. Arkham Horror definitely gains more from very little. But that's a small fortune. You get a mix of cards for factions/classes, never much of a coherent whole.

The new 78-card packs for L5R are much more useful. Something like that, focusing on one faction, is always preferable. Deluxe sets similarly do best when released as faction-specific boxes of ~156 cards.

The feeling I get from a warband pack for Underworlds is different. A complete new team is included, its support cards, and enough of them to have to make hard choices. In addition plenty of neutral cards for all warbands are included. Best value for my money among constructible deck games.

Hero Realms' character packs are nice for variety, and you'll generally be using them all the time. But it's a bit much for 15 cards. The larger sets are a better deal. If all these class packs had been part of a larger add-on, the price would have been friendlier. So the lesson learned is don't do small packs.

Scythe's automa decks are useful if you need another AI player. Probably not something you buy more than one extra copy of, and fine at that price. It does a thing, and it's the only way to do that thing, and it's a thing many players want. The encounter deck add-on, however, is insanely costly for such a small addition of cards. I dunno what justifies the price around here.

The Legendary packs are just not nicely priced for small packs, and you don't always know if you'll like them. Five heroes and some villain plots. Each new release requires research. The larger packs, however, add a ton of fun. Worth it, even at our extortionate prices.

So to lure me in there definitely has to be a thematic/faction focus, and to keep costs down you have to stick to larger, meatier packs.

Prices in some countries are just so ridiculous that we prefer large expansions to small ones, but Games Workshop somehow get miniatures AND cards into the same price point as FFG's card-only expansions. I'd say the two prices they have for cards+minis and cards only packs are the best I can find.
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KC Schrimpl
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I personally would never pay over $10 for a 54 card deck.

If their asking $15-20, I can go out and get another full game.
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Nate K
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How many pieces of unique, high-quality art are we talking? And how popular is the game?

If the artwork is fairly simple or there are only a few unique pieces of art, I would expect to pay a bit less. If the artwork is gorgeous and high quality, with many unique pieces, I would expect to pay more.

If the game is popular and the expansion is expected to sell well, I would expect to pay a bit less. If it's a niche or indie game and the expansion is likely to only sell a couple thousand units, I would expect to pay a little more.

Depending on the circumstances, I could see paying as little as $5 or as much as $30 for such an expansion.
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Caleb Morton
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kurthl33t wrote:
How many pieces of unique, high-quality art are we talking? And how popular is the game?

If the artwork is fairly simple or there are only a few unique pieces of art, I would expect to pay a bit less. If the artwork is gorgeous and high quality, with many unique pieces, I would expect to pay more.

If the game is popular and the expansion is expected to sell well, I would expect to pay a bit less. If it's a niche or indie game and the expansion is likely to only sell a couple thousand units, I would expect to pay a little more.

Depending on the circumstances, I could see paying as little as $5 or as much as $30 for such an expansion.


This is a very good perspective on this question. This makes me realize that there is no blanket answer to it but the different perspectives are helpful.

I do not have answers to those questions because they are hypothetical.

Looking at the case of Exploding Kittens, that game is only 56 cards but costs 30 dollars, but is wildly popular. Expansions on that game are definitely on the pricey side and the artwork really isn't high quality but the popularity of it makes it worth it.
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Caleb Morton
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schrimpl wrote:
I personally would never pay over $10 for a 54 card deck.

If their asking $15-20, I can go out and get another full game.


I felt this way as well at first, but I have come to realize that if its a game that I really enjoy, and want more content for, I am willing to spend that $15-20 to add more to the game.
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Justin R
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CalMor wrote:
kurthl33t wrote:
How many pieces of unique, high-quality art are we talking? And how popular is the game?

If the artwork is fairly simple or there are only a few unique pieces of art, I would expect to pay a bit less. If the artwork is gorgeous and high quality, with many unique pieces, I would expect to pay more.

If the game is popular and the expansion is expected to sell well, I would expect to pay a bit less. If it's a niche or indie game and the expansion is likely to only sell a couple thousand units, I would expect to pay a little more.

Depending on the circumstances, I could see paying as little as $5 or as much as $30 for such an expansion.


This is a very good perspective on this question. This makes me realize that there is no blanket answer to it but the different perspectives are helpful.

I do not have answers to those questions because they are hypothetical.

Looking at the case of Exploding Kittens, that game is only 56 cards but costs 30 dollars, but is wildly popular. Expansions on that game are definitely on the pricey side and the artwork really isn't high quality but the popularity of it makes it worth it.


The success of Exploding Kittens lies, I would think, not in its appeal to gamers that frequent BGG, but in its appeal to (extremely) casual gamers, preexisting fans of the publisher, and those inclined toward silly shit, plus a healthy dose of hype train.

You and others are very much correct to acknowledge it depends on the product. For more Terraforming Mars cards or a Race for the Galaxy expansion, a whole bunch of people would drop $15 to $20, but those are already excellent games. People play the crap out of them and crave more content. I think you'll get a more frugal response posing the question in the abstract.
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Matthew Proper-Lee
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JJRR_Esq wrote:
CalMor wrote:
kurthl33t wrote:
How many pieces of unique, high-quality art are we talking? And how popular is the game?

If the artwork is fairly simple or there are only a few unique pieces of art, I would expect to pay a bit less. If the artwork is gorgeous and high quality, with many unique pieces, I would expect to pay more.

If the game is popular and the expansion is expected to sell well, I would expect to pay a bit less. If it's a niche or indie game and the expansion is likely to only sell a couple thousand units, I would expect to pay a little more.

Depending on the circumstances, I could see paying as little as $5 or as much as $30 for such an expansion.


This is a very good perspective on this question. This makes me realize that there is no blanket answer to it but the different perspectives are helpful.

I do not have answers to those questions because they are hypothetical.

Looking at the case of Exploding Kittens, that game is only 56 cards but costs 30 dollars, but is wildly popular. Expansions on that game are definitely on the pricey side and the artwork really isn't high quality but the popularity of it makes it worth it.


The success of Exploding Kittens lies, I would think, not in its appeal to gamers that frequent BGG, but in its appeal to (extremely) casual gamers, preexisting fans of the publisher, and those inclined toward silly shit, plus a healthy dose of hype train.

You and others are very much correct to acknowledge it depends on the product. For more Terraforming Mars cards or a Race for the Galaxy expansion, a whole bunch of people would drop $15 to $20, but those are already excellent games. People play the crap out of them and crave more content. I think you'll get a more frugal response posing the question in the abstract.


It's helpful to note that Exploding Kittens also had a large audience already due to the artist's past (and current) work on The Oatmeal. He has a huge fanbase that already supported things like preserving and renovating Tesla's lab. I seriously doubt it would have had much impact without his involvement.
 
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