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Subject: Helpers vs sales coverage rss

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James Frye
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I just read the rulebook again yesterday and found out that sales and helper coverage works basically the same way, i.e. you must cover all of a certain type in order to receive the benefits of coverage. I'm not crazy. I KNOW I heard somewhere that each work in your gallery covered a number of helpers matching its value but ALL helpers of the same type had to be covered to receive their bonus actions, whereas with sales, each work in your Shop covered a number of sales matching its value but you DID NOT have to cover all of them to receive points for the sales that were covered.

So, if you had one clay work in your gallery, it would cover up to three helpers. Add one more helper and NONE were covered. You would have to get one more clay work to again receive coverage. On the other hand, one clay work in the shop would cover 3 out of 4 works in sales. You would get nine points for those sales instead of zero.

I know I heard this somewhere. I've been playing it wrong since I got the game (about a week), but I studied it extensively before I bought it so I would be able to teach it. Could those rules have been a previous edition?

Edit: I just scanned the forums and this question comes up so many times that the misconception has to come from somewhere. If we can find out where and pin a topic that declares the source as being inaccurate, then maybe we can finally put this topic to bed.
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Adam Glesser

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Mottainai rulebook page 14 wrote:

A completed work provides cover for a number of helpers equal to the work’s value. A paper work covers one clerk, a stone work covers two monks, and so forth. If you don’t have enough works to cover all your helpers of a type, none of them are considered covered


Mottainai rulebook page 15 wrote:

Cover for sales works the same way as cover for helpers.

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Wow. My all-time favorite game and I have been playing this rule wrong for... forever. I’m a little embarrassed to admit it, since I have spent considerable time working out the rules nuances of this game. (I also dig M:tG so I consider this “depth” rather than “complexity.”)

After reading your post and knowing you were obviously wrong I, too, went to the rules forums and realized it was I who was wrong. In fact, Chris Cieslik, whom I consider to have power of verbal rules canon regarding this game, states in both principle and example that the way you have been interpreting the rules is indeed the right way- coverage for sales is all or nothing, just like helpers.

The way the printed rules are presented I can see there being some room for ambiguity in interpretation, especially without a scoring example in the rules involving more sales than covering ability via works in the Gift Shop.

Thanks for posting and expressing your confusion. I’m a little wiser for it.

EDIT: Grammar
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Kevin B. Smith
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Perhaps the rules about backorders got muddled with sales coverage, in some peoples' minds?

I know when I was learning the game, by about that point, my mind had melted into a steaming pile of mush. Honestly, I played my first several games intentionally ignoring the backorders rule, because it my brain was full. We would still score it at the end, but I would play as if we weren't going to, and I just allowed those extra points to be a complete surprise tacked on the end.
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kruska kruska
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james39562 wrote:
I just read the rulebook again yesterday and found out that sales and helper coverage works basically the same way, i.e. you must cover all of a certain type in order to receive the benefits of coverage. I'm not crazy. I KNOW I heard somewhere that each work in your gallery covered a number of helpers matching its value but ALL helpers of the same type had to be covered to receive their bonus actions, whereas with sales, each work in your Shop covered a number of sales matching its value but you DID NOT have to cover all of them to receive points for the sales that were covered.

So, if you had one clay work in your gallery, it would cover up to three helpers. Add one more helper and NONE were covered. You would have to get one more clay work to again receive coverage. On the other hand, one clay work in the shop would cover 3 out of 4 works in sales. You would get nine points for those sales instead of zero.

I know I heard this somewhere. I've been playing it wrong since I got the game (about a week), but I studied it extensively before I bought it so I would be able to teach it. Could those rules have been a previous edition?

Edit: I just scanned the forums and this question comes up so many times that the misconception has to come from somewhere. If we can find out where and pin a topic that declares the source as being inaccurate, then maybe we can finally put this topic to bed.




YOU ARE WRONG!!!

You must covered all sales or you score zero (like for helpers)...designer is confirm this!!!
 
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James Frye
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kruska wrote:
james39562 wrote:
I just read the rulebook again yesterday and found out that sales and helper coverage works basically the same way, i.e. you must cover all of a certain type in order to receive the benefits of coverage. I'm not crazy. I KNOW I heard somewhere that each work in your gallery covered a number of helpers matching its value but ALL helpers of the same type had to be covered to receive their bonus actions, whereas with sales, each work in your Shop covered a number of sales matching its value but you DID NOT have to cover all of them to receive points for the sales that were covered.

So, if you had one clay work in your gallery, it would cover up to three helpers. Add one more helper and NONE were covered. You would have to get one more clay work to again receive coverage. On the other hand, one clay work in the shop would cover 3 out of 4 works in sales. You would get nine points for those sales instead of zero.

I know I heard this somewhere. I've been playing it wrong since I got the game (about a week), but I studied it extensively before I bought it so I would be able to teach it. Could those rules have been a previous edition?

Edit: I just scanned the forums and this question comes up so many times that the misconception has to come from somewhere. If we can find out where and pin a topic that declares the source as being inaccurate, then maybe we can finally put this topic to bed.




YOU ARE WRONG!!!

You must covered all sales or you score zero (like for helpers)...designer is confirm this!!!


Clearly you didn't read my post. I know the rules. all sales of a type must be covered in order to score any points for that type. My question is not what is the rule, but where did this idea of not needing to cover all the sales come from? It had to have come from somewhere or else there would be no need for the designer to clarify it.
 
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Ellie K
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james39562 wrote:
kruska wrote:
james39562 wrote:
I just read the rulebook again yesterday and found out that sales and helper coverage works basically the same way, i.e. you must cover all of a certain type in order to receive the benefits of coverage. I'm not crazy. I KNOW I heard somewhere that each work in your gallery covered a number of helpers matching its value but ALL helpers of the same type had to be covered to receive their bonus actions, whereas with sales, each work in your Shop covered a number of sales matching its value but you DID NOT have to cover all of them to receive points for the sales that were covered.

So, if you had one clay work in your gallery, it would cover up to three helpers. Add one more helper and NONE were covered. You would have to get one more clay work to again receive coverage. On the other hand, one clay work in the shop would cover 3 out of 4 works in sales. You would get nine points for those sales instead of zero.

I know I heard this somewhere. I've been playing it wrong since I got the game (about a week), but I studied it extensively before I bought it so I would be able to teach it. Could those rules have been a previous edition?

Edit: I just scanned the forums and this question comes up so many times that the misconception has to come from somewhere. If we can find out where and pin a topic that declares the source as being inaccurate, then maybe we can finally put this topic to bed.




YOU ARE WRONG!!!

You must covered all sales or you score zero (like for helpers)...designer is confirm this!!!


Clearly you didn't read my post. I know the rules. all sales of a type must be covered in order to score any points for that type. My question is not what is the rule, but where did this idea of not needing to cover all the sales come from? It had to have come from somewhere or else there would be no need for the designer to clarify it.


Using Mottainai Mini rules v 1.0 --

Page 14, titled Gallery: Covering Helpers, clearly states the rules for covering helpers. Page 15, titled Gift Shop: Covering Sales, clearly states the rules for covering sales. HOWEVER the rule about covering sales comes immediately after a sentence concerning 'backordered points', which is the first mention of backordered points in the rulebook.

Considering you're about 90% of the way through the rules when you hit the phrase backordered points, the reader is immediately distracted and must now create a mental bin to hold the newly introduced concept of back orders. The complexity of the rules to this point cause the reader to make that mental bin very, very large, you can only imagine what contortions of scoring will be needed to mark up backordered points.

The sentence immediately following the mention of disorienting backorders states, "If you don't have enough works to cover all your sales of a type, none of them are considered covered." But who has the capacity to store that bit of triviality when you have yet to learn about backordered points.

If the first sentence on page 15 concerned covering sales there would be no confusion.
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