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Roll for the Galaxy: Rivalry» Forums » General

Subject: Price point shock?!? rss

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Luke O'Rafferty
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Time will tell if this will be a success, but realistically there is zero chance I am spending 150% of the price of the base game on an expansion. I was (briefly) very excited to see the game landing in the UK finally but... wow. Anyone feeling similarly?
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Erik Jordheim
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Nope. It is really three expansions in one.

I felt the same way about Pandemic the Cures expansion and passed on it... until just this year when it dropped almost 50% in price. I will do the same with Rivalry and will be happy to get it when the price is right (because all I really want are those extra tiles!)
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toeknee n
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lukeorafferty wrote:
Time will tell if this will be a success, but realistically there is zero chance I am spending 150% of the price of the base game on an expansion. I was (briefly) very excited to see the game landing in the UK finally but... wow. Anyone feeling similarly?


Discussed at length in the following thread with designer comments: $80 retail ?
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Scott Wheelock
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I can only give you my opinion, and obviously that's something that might not resonate with you. Time will tell.

I had the same feeling at first. I was very happy with the base game + Ambition and felt that Rivalry had to be above-and-beyond to justify the price. Additionally, I really didn't feel that the initial previews--while interesting--had enough information to help me understand what the expansion was going to be. (Except for the additional tiles and the Pioneer die... those are easy to comprehend. )

When I saw the designer preview, I got much more of a sense of how the deal and orb games worked. To me, both look really, really fun.

The Orb game adds another reason to pay attention to what everyone else is doing, gives a player choices about what they want to focus on, and ways to shore up deficits in their tableau. I love the idea of it.

The Deal game looks both tactical and strategic, and it feels like the best version of trading that I've ever seen in a game. Trade with other players, trade with the game, trade only temporarily by trading with yourself! Benefit (probably) from trades whatever you do. Plus, the flexibility of the trading is so neat. You want a yellow die for your faction, but can't wait to Settle that 5-Cost world? Trade for it! Want to get rid of some of your white dice, but aren't drawing the right worlds? Trade 'em away! Etcetera.

After that preview (and reading the rules), I got so terribly excited about it that the price just seemed not to matter as much. Roll for the Galaxy has been a great experience for everyone 90% of the times that I've played, and making it even better trumps getting a new, stand-alone game for me.

It's on order, and should be here next week. Maybe I'll come back here and say, "I was so wrong," and maybe I won't. Regardless, I'm quite stoked about trying it.
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Emmanouil Karakostas
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there are more expansions than one, in the box , friend.

the price for this expansion is payed once, but the game, from then on , would be the ultimate roll for the galaxy experience.

next stop, space combats! and the game is fully complete
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Luke O'Rafferty
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DoctaWho wrote:
lukeorafferty wrote:
Time will tell if this will be a success, but realistically there is zero chance I am spending 150% of the price of the base game on an expansion. I was (briefly) very excited to see the game landing in the UK finally but... wow. Anyone feeling similarly?


Discussed at length in the following thread with designer comments: $80 retail ?


Missed that one, thanks.
 
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Luke O'Rafferty
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swheelock wrote:
I can only give you my opinion, and obviously that's something that might not resonate with you. Time will tell.

It's on order, and should be here next week. Maybe I'll come back here and say, "I was so wrong," and maybe I won't. Regardless, I'm quite stoked about trying it.


Hey I'm sure it'll be a blast, I love the game - please do come back and give us your view. But this is just too much for me.
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Brett Petersen
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lukeorafferty wrote:
Time will tell if this will be a success, but realistically there is zero chance I am spending 150% of the price of the base game on an expansion. I was (briefly) very excited to see the game landing in the UK finally but... wow. Anyone feeling similarly?


I did until I played it, if you like this game, it explodes it to a level previously not though possible, it even improves the two player experience. I guess what I am saying is I had content shock that overcame my price point shock.
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John Smith
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If you want all three included expansions, it's a good price. I just want the one that is “more of the same”, so the price sucks and I feel wary of buying any more games by the designer and publisher.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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blackmeeple wrote:
I just want the one that is “more of the same”

Looking at your BGG collection, I see that you own Roll and not its first expansion, Ambition, which is a "more of the same" expansion. If that's what you want, why not purchase it?
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Nathaniel Chambers
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I haven't played it yet, but have my copy and have read up on it, and I think it's a really good price point. Cheap even, considering. I wish more expansions were released like this instead of slow dripping it.
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Thomas Cowart
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blackmeeple wrote:
so the price sucks


If the product itself isn't something you want, doesn't any price "suck"?

blackmeeple wrote:
and I feel wary of buying any more games by the designer and publisher.


Has anyone lied about anything? (No) Has Tom been anything but straightforward with everyone about what is in the expansion and why it costs what it costs? (also No) Why would this make you "wary" of other games he makes or that Rio Grande publishes?
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Eric Brosius
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blackmeeple wrote:
I feel wary of buying any more games by the designer and publisher.

If your favorite pizza place advertises a jalapeno pizza and you decide not to order it because you don't enjoy spicy foods, does that make you stop going to the pizza place? Or do you just say "that one's not for me; I'll keep ordering the things they make that I enjoy"?
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Wesley Austin Kinslow
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I was kind of miffed about the MSRP as I'd preordered it from my FLGS and didn't realize the price point - having said that the expansion is certainly worth every penny. Such a great addition!
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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Eric Brosius wrote:
blackmeeple wrote:
I feel wary of buying any more games by the designer and publisher.

If your favorite pizza place advertises a jalapeno pizza and you decide not to order it because you don't enjoy spicy foods, does that make you stop going to the pizza place? Or do you just say "that one's not for me; I'll keep ordering the things they make that I enjoy"?


Well, if I really liked anchovy and pineapple pizza, but the pizza place only sold a jalapeno anchovy and pineapple pizza, and I didn't want to pay extra money and pick off the jalapenos, I might loudly threaten the pizza place that I wouldn't go there any more in an attempt to coerce the pizza place into selling me an anchovy and pineapple pizza for less money. And let's say that I have no idea that an anchovy and pineapple pizza would cost the pizza place more money to make because then they'd have to change all their menus to list the new combo, that they have a connection with the supplier that only sells jalapenos and pineapples together, and other things I'm ignorant of because I don't know what running a pizza place is like. That means the pizza place says "no", so now I have to decide if I'm going to make good on my not-well-thought-out threat.
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Spider Jerusalem
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Tom, Wei-Hwa, those are all valid points that you’re making, but I don’t think it looks very good for you to be piling on this user for expressing a thought that crossed many people’s minds, including those of fans of the game.

This expansion is expensive. That’s a fact. You can certainly make the argument that you’re getting a lot in the box or that other games are more expensive, but that doesn’t change the fact that $80 MSRP is, in absolute terms, a lot of money. You can buy many cups of coffee with that.

You have chosen to focus on this user’s ‘threat’ to take their business elsewhere and their lack of knowledge of the board game business, but it’s plain to see what they’re really saying: they’re already fans of your game, they’ve bought into it and they’d like to be here for the long haul, but they’re disappointed that keeping up with a game they love has now become very costly.
Come on, is that so hard to see? ‘Move along, there’s nothing for you here’ is not an appropriate response.

I think it’s well established by now that there is a price creep in this hobby. I work with people who produce games, so I know that there are many factors contributing to this and it’s not just plastic miniatures. But I also know that, quite often, the price of a game has no direct correlation to the manufacturing costs, but has a lot to do with positioning yourself in a crowded market.

You have a well established games franchise. You could’ve chosen to release this as three separate expansions at a lower price point, even if it would’ve cost you a bit more. Instead, you chose to release it as a single, big box and pass those costs onto the consumer. Regardless of what’s inside, don’t be surprised if your fans feel a bit stung by it.
 
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Lee Fisher
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spiderjerusalemOX wrote:
Tom, Wei-Hwa, those are all valid points that you’re making, but I don’t think it looks very good for you to be piling on this user for expressing a thought that crossed many people’s minds, including those of fans of the game.

This expansion is expensive. That’s a fact. You can certainly make the argument that you’re getting a lot in the box or that other games are more expensive, but that doesn’t change the fact that $80 MSRP is, in absolute terms, a lot of money. You can buy many cups of coffee with that.

You have chosen to focus on this user’s ‘threat’ to take their business elsewhere and their lack of knowledge of the board game business, but it’s plain to see what they’re really saying: they’re already fans of your game, they’ve bought into it and they’d like to be here for the long haul, but they’re disappointed that keeping up with a game they love has now become very costly.
Come on, is that so hard to see? ‘Move along, there’s nothing for you here’ is not an appropriate response.

I think it’s well established by now that there is a price creep in this hobby. I work with people who produce games, so I know that there are many factors contributing to this and it’s not just plastic miniatures. But I also know that, quite often, the price of a game has no direct correlation to the manufacturing costs, but has a lot to do with positioning yourself in a crowded market.

You have a well established games franchise. You could’ve chosen to release this as three separate expansions at a lower price point, even if it would’ve cost you a bit more. Instead, you chose to release it as a single, big box and pass those costs onto the consumer. Regardless of what’s inside, don’t be surprised if your fans feel a bit stung by it.


They chose to release it as a single, big box and pass those SAVINGS onto the consumer.
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Eric Brosius
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spiderjerusalemOX wrote:
You could’ve chosen to release this as three separate expansions at a lower price point, even if it would’ve cost you a bit more. Instead, you chose to release it as a single, big box and pass those costs onto the consumer.

I don't know whether you remember the bitter complaints people had when the expansions for Race for the Galaxy came out in smaller formats. Perhaps part of what is happening is that Rio Grande is responding to those earlier complaints.
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Spider Jerusalem
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lfisher wrote:
They chose to release it as a single, big box and pass those SAVINGS onto the consumer.


You don’t know whether they chose to pass the savings or increase their margin. I’m willing to believe it was the former, but when the chosen format prices it out of many people’s wallets, it’s not much of a saving, is it?
 
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Lee Fisher
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spiderjerusalemOX wrote:
lfisher wrote:
They chose to release it as a single, big box and pass those SAVINGS onto the consumer.


You don’t know whether they chose to pass the savings or increase their margin. I’m willing to believe it was the former, but when the chosen format prices it out of many people’s wallets, it’s not much of a saving, is it?


We do know. It is detailed clearly in the linked thread above and other threads.

Releasing them separately would cost (the consumer) a lot more (and not be as good).
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Eric Brosius wrote:
spiderjerusalemOX wrote:
You could’ve chosen to release this as three separate expansions at a lower price point, even if it would’ve cost you a bit more. Instead, you chose to release it as a single, big box and pass those costs onto the consumer.

I don't know whether you remember the bitter complaints people had when the expansions for Race for the Galaxy came out in smaller formats. Perhaps part of what is happening is that Rio Grande is responding to those earlier complaints.


I do and that’s a good point. I’m not really taking sides for either approach. There’s pros and cons to each. I’m just surprised that the designers are shocked that people are complaining about an $80 MSRP for an expansion (which, like most expansions, means you’ve already spent money on the base game).
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Spider Jerusalem
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lfisher wrote:
spiderjerusalemOX wrote:
lfisher wrote:
They chose to release it as a single, big box and pass those SAVINGS onto the consumer.


You don’t know whether they chose to pass the savings or increase their margin. I’m willing to believe it was the former, but when the chosen format prices it out of many people’s wallets, it’s not much of a saving, is it?


We do know. It is detailed clearly in the linked thread above and other threads.

Releasing them separately would cost (the consumer) a lot more (and not be as good).


That’s their assertion. Different publishers take different approaches and Rio Grande are probably big enough to have more options than most.

In any case, as I said, I’m inclined to believe their intentions are good. My point is still that what you see as a ‘saving’, many will see as out of reach. That’s simply what the OP and others have pointed out. There’s no need to accuse them of being ignorant or tell them to move on.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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Did you read the earlier linked thread? I am and have been sympathetic to those for whom this expansion is too expensive. I have engaged with customers three different times on this issue: in the BGG News item that first mentioned the price, the Designer Preview, and in the previous thread.

Here is one of my responses from that thread:

Tom Lehmann wrote:
substandardtim wrote:
For me though, that's just too much. My game budget is pretty small and at that price, I am way more likely to add an entirely different game that delivers a different experience than add on to an existing game, even one that I really enjoy.

I sympathize with and respect this.

My one comment is that we describe this as "3 expansions in one" as the two optional Deal and Orb games, in our opinion, do deliver very different experiences alongside the "Roll experience". Whether that counts as "different enough" for you, of course, is up to you; your mileage may vary.


My only post above (in this thread) points out a possible alternative that might work for a particular customer.

Perceived tone, of course, varies from reader to reader, but characterizing that response as being "shocked" or telling a customer to "move on" is not something in my post above and it certainly doesn't apply to my longer and more detailed responses in three previous places.

I'm sad that Rivalry, due to its higher price point, doesn't work for you. As some customers in the Rivalry comments have stated, it's good that we have two very different expansions, Ambition and Rivalry, aimed at players with different budgets and interests. If you're looking for a Roll expansion, buy the one that best suits you.
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Arthur Peterson
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I don't like the deal game at all and will never play with it. But we love the rest of it. I wish we'd have had the option to pass on the deal expansion and save that money.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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zpeteman wrote:
I don't like the deal game at all and will never play with it. But we love the rest of it. I wish we'd have had the option to pass on the deal expansion and save that money.

Sigh. If that option involved making Rivalry as 3 expansions and selling them separately at $40-45, you would *not save any money at all*. In fact, buying any two separate expansions would cost more.

That's what the actual cost of having separate boxes, cover art, shipping, handling, and so on (plus a few duplicate components) for three separate products does to the total cost.

As I've said before, if you enjoy any 2 of the 3 expansions in Rivalry, you are getting the third one *for free*. If you enjoy all 3 expansions, packaging them together is saving you a lot of money.

(I agree that someone who enjoys only one of the three expansions is paying more. I wish we could make them happy too, but production costs are what they are. If the one part they want is simply more tiles plus the Leader dice, well, that's what Ambition supplies.)

The notion that we could break up Rivalry and supply it as 3 separate expansions and save money for those who only want any 2 of them is a fantasy. Reality doesn't work that way.
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