Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
51 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

Xia: Embers of a Forsaken Star» Forums » General

Subject: Speed Is King. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
ed y
msg tools
DC680 wrote:


Are you putting the exploration tokens in your cargo spaces?


No, they don't, unless We've missed another rule. I'm talking about the cubes you pick up from them or the (ice) damage you're going to take running around like a madman.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyinsar -
Canada
Grande Prairie
Alberta
flag msg tools
Playing games
badge
Kilroy was here
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Phogg wrote:
... In our games we stole someone's variant from the forums dealing out two ship ability cards and picking one. This forces us to take starting hulls that are otherwise seldom played...

Interesting idea but if you’re playing with more than three how would this work? - I suppose with the missions an powers expansion you’d have enough powers and could proxy an unselected hull if your choice was already taken. How big is your play group usually?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Mcgamin

Arizona
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Eddieddi wrote:
DC680 wrote:


Are you putting the exploration tokens in your cargo spaces?


No, they don't, unless We've missed another rule. I'm talking about the cubes you pick up from them or the (ice) damage you're going to take running around like a madman.


Okay, just making sure. If you pick up some lucky tokens with cubes you could easily need more than 2 spots.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edwin Woody
United States
Pottsboro
Texas
flag msg tools
I'm trying to reform though.
badge
On the restless road to nowhere, there's no certain peace it seems.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tyinsar wrote:
Phogg wrote:
... In our games we stole someone's variant from the forums dealing out two ship ability cards and picking one. This forces us to take starting hulls that are otherwise seldom played...

Interesting idea but if you’re playing with more than three how would this work? - I suppose with the missions an powers expansion you’d have enough powers and could proxy an unselected hull if your choice was already taken. How big is your play group usually?


We play two to four.
We still have turn order, so overlapping hulls allow a player who goes later but picks early the option of taking the hull or drawing a different one.

That occasionally gives something of the old boost to players who go later.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ed y
msg tools
Just making a note on the topic of t3 engine +gts and then someone mentioned shields and blasters. It doesn't matter. at the stage of the game I'm talking about, you're either going to have to somehow squeeze a t1 blaster in, which won't do enough damage, Or if you want to try and fit a t2 blaster in you're now looking at an investment total of half your t2 ship. Not to mention that you need to catch up with someone, and you're likely not to be able to fit it unless you've swapped to a t2 engine, which is going to slow you down enough for people just to run away from you.

In the early stage of the game, fitting a sheild in isn't worth the credits or the energy to use it, you carry so little that death is no penalty what so ever beyond the minor inconvenience.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edwin Woody
United States
Pottsboro
Texas
flag msg tools
I'm trying to reform though.
badge
On the restless road to nowhere, there's no certain peace it seems.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Eddieddi wrote:
Just making a note on the topic of t3 engine +gts and then someone mentioned shields and blasters. It doesn't matter. at the stage of the game I'm talking about, you're either going to have to somehow squeeze a t1 blaster in, which won't do enough damage, Or if you want to try and fit a t2 blaster in you're now looking at an investment total of half your t2 ship. Not to mention that you need to catch up with someone, and you're likely not to be able to fit it unless you've swapped to a t2 engine, which is going to slow you down enough for people just to run away from you.

In the early stage of the game, fitting a sheild in isn't worth the credits or the energy to use it, you carry so little that death is no penalty what so ever beyond the minor inconvenience.


If the Scoundrel is out, he only moves 5/turn.
Each time you pop him it's worth a fame and 2000 credits. Add 2 piercers and you have an engine which will get you to tier 2 before the map gets so big that he spawns far away.

Everything in Xia is situational.
Nothing works all the time, but the weirdest strategies can work if the map is right.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ed y
msg tools
Phogg wrote:


If the Scoundrel is out, he only moves 5/turn.
Each time you pop him it's worth a fame and 2000 credits. Add 2 piercers and you have an engine which will get you to tier 2 before the map gets so big that he spawns far away.

Everything in Xia is situational.
Nothing works all the time, but the weirdest strategies can work if the map is right.


He moves 5 towards the target then upon shooting 8 towards Loath.
He only spawns in when Loath is found. meaning that you still need to find it first. And we're back to the locating things/exploring issue.
By the time you, with your, lets assume t1 blaster +t1 engine+2 piercers (as that is within the starting credits) locate the scoundrel I've covered 2x as meany sectors, gotten the exploration tokens in all of them and have long since hit T2. unless you find him in the first movement. Even then You still need to do 10 damage, Which means that you need to kill him before either 1) he kills you, or 2) he gets back to loath and repairs.
Even if you take the 'Russian' ship (the one that lets you use guns as engines). and a T2 blaster, that's still only 2d8 movement.
I would agree with you. IF Loath is in your starting hex's.
If not? then t3 engine + GTS is your absolute best starting setup.


Tyinsar wrote:


The only way I see around this is to start with an already explored map like Hyper / Triple Hammerhead System and then simply discarding exploration tokens once you get the initial reward (no rewards for sets). Even then MentatYP is correct that “speed is king generally anyway” since it lets you complete missions and trade faster. It also helps you catch or run away from other players.

Lately we have been starting with more money (5000 or 6000) to get a faster start. Next game I want to try giving each player three 1Fp title cards at the start (sort of like secret missions for them to complete). This was discussed in this thread: Quick Start - Boosting the start of the game (beginners friendly) [Help!]


We tried this in a test game last night. We used the setup suggested in triple hammerhead. It was fantastic. Even without discarding the exploration tokens, the fact everything was spread out and randomized made the game start far 'slower' and people were less 'explore at high speed' and more just grabbing any and all opportunities they came across.

We tried the 1fp title cards at the start. It...didn't go well. Most players either ignored them, or were going for a build that just didn't suit them. A good example is the fact I got Menace, Viking and I can't remember the third one. But they were all combat heavy titles. And I'd taken the Ghoststalker as my starting ship. So I decided to set them aside and get back to them when I hit T2. and by that time, we'd found an ember mine right next to the kiln, and I'd decided to just go ember mining and was half wa set up towards that by the time I remember them. I Just never bothered after that.

I love the idea of the 'secret objectives' but I think they need to be either more achievable, or have more of a reward.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
YaVerOt YaVerOt
United States
Arvada
Colorado
flag msg tools
Armchair warriors often fail, and we've been poisoned by these fairy tales.
badge
Aoi Aoi toki ga toke dasheta.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Eddieddi wrote:
2) he gets back to loath and repairs.

Repairs? I thought damage accumulated until it was destroyed, then it respawns.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyinsar -
Canada
Grande Prairie
Alberta
flag msg tools
Playing games
badge
Kilroy was here
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Eddieddi wrote:
... We used the setup suggested in triple hammerhead. It was fantastic. ...

We tried the 1fp title cards at the start. It...didn't go well. Most players either ignored them, or were going for a build that just didn't suit them. ...

I love the idea of the 'secret objectives' but I think they need to be either more achievable, or have more of a reward.

Thanks for the report back. I’m a little jealous of the amount of plays you get - I have so many ideas I’d love to test but we have games nights too seldom and then convincing my group to try variants seldom happens.

Yeah, the toughness of some of the titles was my fear. Getting the titles before choosing your ships might help - but then getting one that is easier and works with your planned build can also feel unfair to other players. I still want to try it myself if I ever get the chance.

One crazy thought is to let the players choose one of the three as already completed thus giving them an extra bonus form the start but I have concerns about balance issues - then again, if everyone gets one would that balance things? Perhaps I’ll have to start playing multi-handed solo to test these (but not being a solo player it always feels so against what I play games for).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edwin Woody
United States
Pottsboro
Texas
flag msg tools
I'm trying to reform though.
badge
On the restless road to nowhere, there's no certain peace it seems.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Speed Is King. @ed y
Not two piercers bought with the starting credits. Start with a D8 engine, a GTS, and a Shield. If Loathe comes out trade the GTS and shield for a tier two blaster. You don't lose anything trading tier one outfits away. Add two piercers with the first two thousand credits you earn.

As Yaverot pointed out, the NPCs don't repair.

Remember, change your tactics and configuration to take advantage of changes on the board.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edwin Woody
United States
Pottsboro
Texas
flag msg tools
I'm trying to reform though.
badge
On the restless road to nowhere, there's no certain peace it seems.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tyinsar wrote:
Eddieddi wrote:
... We used the setup suggested in triple hammerhead. It was fantastic. ...

We tried the 1fp title cards at the start. It...didn't go well. Most players either ignored them, or were going for a build that just didn't suit them. ...

I love the idea of the 'secret objectives' but I think they need to be either more achievable, or have more of a reward.

Thanks for the report back. I’m a little jealous of the amount of plays you get - I have so many ideas I’d love to test but we have games nights too seldom and then convincing my group to try variants seldom happens.

Yeah, the toughness of some of the titles was my fear. Getting the titles before choosing your ships might help - but then getting one that is easier and works with your planned build can also feel unfair to other players. I still want to try it myself if I ever get the chance.

One crazy thought is to let the players choose one of the three as already completed thus giving them an extra bonus form the start but I have concerns about balance issues - then again, if everyone gets one would that balance things? Perhaps I’ll have to start playing multi-handed solo to test these (but not being a solo player it always feels so against what I play games for).


For getting plays is, it helps if Xia is your wife's favorite game.

The solo game is also decent, you just need to plan in a different way.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ed y
msg tools
Phogg wrote:
Not two piercers bought with the starting credits. Start with a D8 engine, a GTS, and a Shield. If Loathe comes out trade the GTS and shield for a tier two blaster. You don't lose anything trading tier one outfits away. Add two piercers with the first two thousand credits you earn.

As Yaverot pointed out, the NPCs don't repair.

Remember, change your tactics and configuration to take advantage of changes on the board.


Again, you're going to be behind, You're moving 7 spaces a roll on average. assuming you're blind jumping and not stopping to scan. You're exploring about 4 spaces a turn (Longest route across a hex ignoring hazards is 5, 7*3=18 assuming 3 and a bit spaces). You locate Loath, you then have to spend a turn landing (Assuming you land on Loath to requip) and kitting yourself out. You're movement then drops to an average of 5 per roll, meaning that you'll need to use a minimum of one roll to keep up with the scoundrel. If not more. Average of 5 per roll, with a 1 on his rolls with a deviation of 2 ish. You're dealing 4 damage per shot. so 8 damage per turn, taking 2 turns to kill him. Meaning he gets 1 turn firing at you. dealing an average of 5 damage. before moving eight away. Resulting in you having to chase him yet further.

Now here is where I drop the maths hammer. And I apologize.
there are 31 spaces, minus Nyr in the center, and your discovered Loath. 29 tiles. with a total of 27 exploration tokens scattered among them. To keep the maths simple I will not variate this through 'number of sectors explored' because at that point we are talking about drifting in to the later game. This means that any one tile I reveal has a 93% likelihood of containing a exploration token. If we take our exploration tokens and separate them out. They come in 2 categories. 2k tokens and 1k tokens. However, since we are functioning with a 'missing' board I will consider the 2k tokens 1.5k tokens. 2k tokens are ones with missions and cubes (considered 1.5k as the likelihood of selling them or completing them is 50/50, depending on explored area, If Loath is revealed, increase to 1.75)1k tokens are Energy, movement, and ice tokens. Movement tokens are worth more as they grant more exploration, but that is discounted as it is difficult to evaluate.
Lucky for me they are split 15/15. which makes each exploration token worth about 1.25k credits.

My t3 engine+gts is averaging 9 movement per roll, Covering, almost 2 spaces. Again, I don't care about damage or hazards because wherever I spawn, I lose nothing and just floor it towards the nearest edge. If Xia is discovered, my percentage chances increase. 3 rolls in a turn. granting me about 27 spaces of movement. 5 to 6 spaces a turn. With a 93% chance of an exploration token. I'm willing to call that a 75% chance to make my maths easy, that means every 4 of my 6 hexes gives me 1.25 credits (1.35 if Loath is discovered, average of 1 and 1.75). Lets assume I survive. We're one turn in. and I have at minimum 4k credits.
If I have 1 cube that can be sold anywhere on the map. I have my tier 2 ship.
Ok chances of survival. each tile has 12 edge tiles. we have 29 tiles. this gives us 348 edge hexs. I am discounting Nebula as a 'hazard' as our recharge full energy tokens, and the capacity to stop on planets. Or even playing with the puddle jumper all render them far less harmful. with 79 spaces that can cause us issue total.

Our likelihood of jumping in to them is 22%. That's very low odds. And out of those 15 of them are 'You die' That being Xia and the 3 comets. that means if we hit the 22% of taking 'risk space' that means we now have an 18% chance of hitting a 'death' space Each time I hit a space, my chances of hitting another decreases by an immense amount (xia knocks it down to 'negligible'). 3.96 points chance (A point is a 1% of 1%) In all our blind jumps of ever insta-dying.

24 of our 'hazard' spaces are 'if you roll under 3 you die.' that is 30% chance, Of our 22% chance of jump in to hazard to jump in to a 'roll under 3 you die.' 15% chance of death. 15% of 30% of 22%. A utterly minimal chance all in all.
Of all the rest. You are more likely to hit a ice damage, or asteroid damage.
Lets assume we can take 3 impacts (50% chance of taking damage, anything under 8 is 'non lethal'). We are fully capable of making 1 turn worth of 'running'.

Compacting all the maths down: Each blind jump has a 22% chance of putting you in to hazard. Within those hazards there is a 18% chance of insta-death. a 30% chance of having to roll a 15% chance of insta death. And then a 55% chance of having to roll for damage. Those risks are minimal.
With those chances, and a 93% of finding what boils down to 1k credits (If not more). Even if you find Loath within your first exploration. I will have an advantage over you. Yes, you get a few more FP than me, but with the fact that you can get 3 or 4 FP in a turn, and I have a T2 ship. I will overtake you fast enough.

Tyinsar wrote:

Thanks for the report back. I’m a little jealous of the amount of plays you get - I have so many ideas I’d love to test but we have games nights too seldom and then convincing my group to try variants seldom happens.

Yeah, the toughness of some of the titles was my fear. Getting the titles before choosing your ships might help - but then getting one that is easier and works with your planned build can also feel unfair to other players. I still want to try it myself if I ever get the chance.

One crazy thought is to let the players choose one of the three as already completed thus giving them an extra bonus form the start but I have concerns about balance issues - then again, if everyone gets one would that balance things? Perhaps I’ll have to start playing multi-handed solo to test these (but not being a solo player it always feels so against what I play games for).


My local university has a games club, as a post-grad I am a member. so I a have 1 guaranteed game per week, Plus any extras I can arrange.
We love mixing things up.

Maybe, though considering the fact you have the capacity to create your own titles. You can probably make some 'goal cards' that are pretty easy but have some interesting effects.
I think a few of them might be things like: "mixed Wares" Have 3 Different cargo cubes in your hold at any given time, with the reward: 1 per turn you may sell 1 cube of any type at any sell space. Its easy enough to get, and the reward 'feels' rewarding, but has no big ingame effect.
Another one could be 'Kitted out' Where you need to have at minimum a T1 blaster, a T1 shield and a T1 engine. With the reward of Once per turn you may Add +1 to a Engine, Blaster or Shield roll, Up to the outfits maximum.
"Ready for Anything." Have a GTS, a M-Comp and and Enviroshield all equipped. You can use 1 space taken up by a GTS or M-comp as normal cargo space (Damage still effects the outfit)
Maybe one that requires 3 cargo pods or armour plates in any combination? Stuff like that. Something mild, but full of flavour.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edwin Woody
United States
Pottsboro
Texas
flag msg tools
I'm trying to reform though.
badge
On the restless road to nowhere, there's no certain peace it seems.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Your math seems to be pretty linear.
In the scenario I put forth I am not just killing the Scoundrel, but looking for missions and I absolutely will gut punch the players given a chance.

If I am primarily hunting then of course I upgrade every time I have money, and likely something to help with combat generally, I won't be buying my upgrades at loathe until I hit tier three and need the enforcer to chase me.

Your calculations leave out that the Scoundrel will be moving towards me much of the time.

If I stay lawful its usually do-able to be the closest innocent ship, and taking the skimmer at tier two I can slide in next to an asteroid or debris as he closes. Or get a big shield. Or grab the pyrion rail gun and plink the cargo pods off of players and go sell their cubes.

My games and yours aren't going to equate precisely because I have a lot of the fan sectors plus twenty one extra blank sectors to create voids for aesthetics. That tones down...well everything in the long run. Unless tiles show up serendipitously

We have lots of fun.

I don't think anyone I play with averages more than four turns in a tier one ship, nor more than another four to get to tier three. If the map is right and the dice favor you you can have a tier three ship by turn four.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ed y
msg tools
Phogg wrote:
Your math seems to be pretty linear.
In the scenario I put forth I am not just killing the Scoundrel, but looking for missions and I absolutely will gut punch the players given a chance.

If I am primarily hunting then of course I upgrade every time I have money, and likely something to help with combat generally, I won't be buying my upgrades at loathe until I hit tier three and need the enforcer to chase me.

Your calculations leave out that the Scoundrel will be moving towards me much of the time.

If I stay lawful its usually do-able to be the closest innocent ship, and taking the skimmer at tier two I can slide in next to an asteroid or debris as he closes. Or get a big shield. Or grab the pyrion rail gun and plink the cargo pods off of players and go sell their cubes.

My games and yours aren't going to equate precisely because I have a lot of the fan sectors plus twenty one extra blank sectors to create voids for aesthetics. That tones down...well everything in the long run. Unless tiles show up serendipitously

We have lots of fun.

I don't think anyone I play with averages more than four turns in a tier one ship, nor more than another four to get to tier three. If the map is right and the dice favor you you can have a tier three ship by turn four.


I kept the maths linear to avoid having 4 or 5 times the amount of calculations and explanation. it does however scale up pretty well.

And they don't leave out he'll be moving towards you, they just work under the logic that he'll shoot you then run away. or you will end next to him and so he'll run away next time. Its just a case of 'the most likely situation. Not to mention if you find loath you won't need him to move towards you. so you need to find it first.

As for looking for missions and gut punching players. Missions will pull you away from your scoundrel hunting. Resulting in longer times between pay offs. and gut punching players will be...difficult as either you have no real effect on my plan, or get yourself a fp and a bounty (which you seem to want to avoid).

Yes, lots of void sectors would create a much slower and more toned down game. However my theory crafting is built on the core game+expansions.

Also another factor I just realised that I missed: You will lose credits when upgrading from your t2 to anything, Whereas I will keep my t3 and GTS throughout the game. And will be faster than you almost universally.

I'm not suggesting your style isn't fun, I'm totally going to try it next game. The issue I'm having is mostly my autism screaming at me that there is the most efficient manner to start. and there is no real solution to it. And its not just the most efficient manner, its also the most secure. Honestly if I came to anyones Xia table and they said "oh we have some homebrew sectors and missions as well as some other things." I would grab the puddle jumper a t3 engine and a gts. Simply because I know that it is the most reactive and flexible ship set up I can provide. I can be anywhere faster than anyone, and have enough cargo space to do anything I need to do at any time. with some exceptions.

I guess what I'm saying is this: You are right on the level of 'its a game, it is supposed to be fun' but you are wrong on the level of a series of mechanical interlinking systems. Yes Flexibility is fun, and the ability to turn your hand at anything is going to be a good game. But on the flip side, if you are looking at it from a raw mechanical side, Speed is your only real option.

Anyway, I think we've both said our parts and going further would sour the debate.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edwin Woody
United States
Pottsboro
Texas
flag msg tools
I'm trying to reform though.
badge
On the restless road to nowhere, there's no certain peace it seems.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Eddieddi wrote:
Phogg wrote:
Your math seems to be pretty linear.
In the scenario I put forth I am not just killing the Scoundrel, but looking for missions and I absolutely will gut punch the players given a chance.

If I am primarily hunting then of course I upgrade every time I have money, and likely something to help with combat generally, I won't be buying my upgrades at loathe until I hit tier three and need the enforcer to chase me.

Your calculations leave out that the Scoundrel will be moving towards me much of the time.

If I stay lawful its usually do-able to be the closest innocent ship, and taking the skimmer at tier two I can slide in next to an asteroid or debris as he closes. Or get a big shield. Or grab the pyrion rail gun and plink the cargo pods off of players and go sell their cubes.

My games and yours aren't going to equate precisely because I have a lot of the fan sectors plus twenty one extra blank sectors to create voids for aesthetics. That tones down...well everything in the long run. Unless tiles show up serendipitously

We have lots of fun.

I don't think anyone I play with averages more than four turns in a tier one ship, nor more than another four to get to tier three. If the map is right and the dice favor you you can have a tier three ship by turn four.


I kept the maths linear to avoid having 4 or 5 times the amount of calculations and explanation. it does however scale up pretty well.

And they don't leave out he'll be moving towards you, they just work under the logic that he'll shoot you then run away. or you will end next to him and so he'll run away next time. Its just a case of 'the most likely situation. Not to mention if you find loath you won't need him to move towards you. so you need to find it first.

As for looking for missions and gut punching players. Missions will pull you away from your scoundrel hunting. Resulting in longer times between pay offs. and gut punching players will be...difficult as either you have no real effect on my plan, or get yourself a fp and a bounty (which you seem to want to avoid).

Yes, lots of void sectors would create a much slower and more toned down game. However my theory crafting is built on the core game+expansions.

Also another factor I just realised that I missed: You will lose credits when upgrading from your t2 to anything, Whereas I will keep my t3 and GTS throughout the game. And will be faster than you almost universally.

I'm not suggesting your style isn't fun, I'm totally going to try it next game. The issue I'm having is mostly my autism screaming at me that there is the most efficient manner to start. and there is no real solution to it. And its not just the most efficient manner, its also the most secure. Honestly if I came to anyones Xia table and they said "oh we have some homebrew sectors and missions as well as some other things." I would grab the puddle jumper a t3 engine and a gts. Simply because I know that it is the most reactive and flexible ship set up I can provide. I can be anywhere faster than anyone, and have enough cargo space to do anything I need to do at any time. with some exceptions.

I guess what I'm saying is this: You are right on the level of 'its a game, it is supposed to be fun' but you are wrong on the level of a series of mechanical interlinking systems. Yes Flexibility is fun, and the ability to turn your hand at anything is going to be a good game. But on the flip side, if you are looking at it from a raw mechanical side, Speed is your only real option.

Anyway, I think we've both said our parts and going further would sour the debate.


Go back to my original post.
All this is situational

If I don't find Loathe I don't make that original switch to a blaster outfit. But with three tier 1 outfits I have 3000 credits I can switch out with no loss to buy outfits I might situationally desire.

Suppose I start out with a Puddle Jumper hull. And let's say someplace on the map a harvest space shows up and a sell spot shows up but it's a five sector trip.

I can swap out for two cargo pods while keeping the GTS or three cargo pods. Then I harvest the heck out of whatever nebula, and deliver eight to twelve cubes all at once.


I have pulled that sort of off often, and if there are people exploring a lot before I am often in a tier three ship while the explorers far from inhabited worlds are tier one despite having a D12 instead of a D8 for movement.

In the early game, tier one outfits are liquid assets.

If you learn to use that efficiently.

It won't always beat a tier three engine starting out, but in situations that sometimes crop up on the board it will hands down.

By late game, the only reason not to have a tier three engine is if you are exploiting the Nightshade ability and are stuck with it's awful bay.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ed y
msg tools
Phogg wrote:

Go back to my original post.
All this is situational

If I don't find Loathe I don't make that original switch to a blaster outfit. But with three tier 1 outfits I have 3000 credits I can switch out with no loss to buy outfits I might situationally desire.

Suppose I start out with a Puddle Jumper hull. And let's say someplace on the map a harvest space shows up and a sell spot shows up but it's a five sector trip.

I can swap out for two cargo pods while keeping the GTS or three cargo pods. Then I harvest the heck out of whatever nebula, and deliver eight to twelve cubes all at once.


I have pulled that sort of off often, and if there are people exploring a lot before I am often in a tier three ship while the explorers far from inhabited worlds are tier one despite having a D12 instead of a D8 for movement.

In the early game, tier one outfits are liquid assets.

If you learn to use that efficiently.

It won't always beat a tier three engine starting out, but in situations that sometimes crop up on the board it will hands down.

By late game, the only reason not to have a tier three engine is if you are exploiting the Nightshade ability and are stuck with it's awful bay.


Ok, 5 sector trip. t2 engines, GTS, you'll cover that in 2 or 3 turns. You recharge for free. Lets then assume you roll perfectly on the nebula. you can harvest nine times. I'm going to be generous and assume you only roll 1's on the fails, 50/50 chance, you harvest 9 times (as per your energy). you fail lets say 4 times, Each time you fail you lose an extra chance to harvest. so for every failure you lose an exta harvest attempt. so you get 3 cubes, or so. lets say 4 to be generous. how you're getting 12 cubes with an energy pool of 9 and the % chance to lose energy I don't know. You then have to make the 5 sector trip back, again 2 turns or so. You've burnt 4 turns (not including the turn you spent re-kitting yourself). to do that. Meanwhile I've zipped round the board, and gotten half a dozen exploration tokens, died twice and upgraded long since.

As for 'far from inhabited worlds' Gates are fantastic. Failing that, you lose nothing critical when you die when you're using the exploration tactic, so You just throw yourself in to whatever is the nearest grand oblivion. Most of the spawn sectors are likely to be close to inhabited worlds.
And maybe it wins on specific, situational board set ups. lets say your example but they are right next to one another. then yes, you'd have an advantage. but the likelihood of that is rather low. Not to mention the fact I'm exploring faster than you means I will find it first.

the T3 engine+GTS start is the best starting set up because it is fast enough to dive on any opportunity, has the ability to explore faster than any other ship, and can outrun anyone trying to shoot it down.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Hanson
United States
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Since there is no cost to Harvest, you can do it any number of times in a turn. With the Puddle Jumper's Eco-Core, you can just sit there and Harvest from a Nebula until your hold is full, then re-arm all of your activation tokens during your Status Phase for free to avoid being stranded. So there's no reason to spend more than one turn Harvesting before you start back to the sell point to unload for profit.

And to be clear, yes, speed is very important in this game simply because there is so much space to cover with almost every strategy. And at the rate you say that your group explores the board, it sounds like every sector would be explored and most of the tokens picked up in 3-4 turns at the most, so maybe you just kind of deal with the race and use those resources to set yourselves up for the next 85% of the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ed y
msg tools
turambur wrote:
Since there is no cost to Harvest, you can do it any number of times in a turn. With the Puddle Jumper's Eco-Core, you can just sit there and Harvest from a Nebula until your hold is full, then re-arm all of your activation tokens during your Status Phase for free to avoid being stranded. So there's no reason to spend more than one turn Harvesting before you start back to the sell point to unload for profit.

And to be clear, yes, speed is very important in this game simply because there is so much space to cover with almost every strategy. And at the rate you say that your group explores the board, it sounds like every sector would be explored and most of the tokens picked up in 3-4 turns at the most, so maybe you just kind of deal with the race and use those resources to set yourselves up for the next 85% of the game.


While that is true, You're still looking at burning a turn, a turn in which the other theoretical player is exploring the board and making a guaranteed bank.

And yeah, by turn 3 we have most sectors explored and picked clean, with maybe one or two exceptions (farrens call). Which means that most players are at t2 by that time. meanwhile with the 2 turn flight trip + harvest time you're still trying to 'set yourself up' for the rest of the game. The other thing is that with t2 ships its first come first serve. so you get stuck with a possibly non optimum choice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyinsar -
Canada
Grande Prairie
Alberta
flag msg tools
Playing games
badge
Kilroy was here
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
turambur wrote:
Since there is no cost to Harvest, you can do it any number of times in a turn. With the Puddle Jumper's Eco-Core, you can just sit there and Harvest from a Nebula until your hold is full, then re-arm all of your activation tokens during your Status Phase for free to avoid being stranded...

We had this happen one game but now I’m questioning if that’s true. You can’t use the Puddle Jumper’s other ability when you have zero energy even though it has no energy cost. This makes me think that this ability may also be similarly limited.

Edit: Just checked the card: “You may arm markers even if you would normally be Stranded”
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edwin Woody
United States
Pottsboro
Texas
flag msg tools
I'm trying to reform though.
badge
On the restless road to nowhere, there's no certain peace it seems.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
turambur wrote:
Since there is no cost to Harvest, you can do it any number of times in a turn. With the Puddle Jumper's Eco-Core, you can just sit there and Harvest from a Nebula until your hold is full, then re-arm all of your activation tokens during your Status Phase for free to avoid being stranded. So there's no reason to spend more than one turn Harvesting before you start back to the sell point to unload for profit.

And to be clear, yes, speed is very important in this game simply because there is so much space to cover with almost every strategy. And at the rate you say that your group explores the board, it sounds like every sector would be explored and most of the tokens picked up in 3-4 turns at the most, so maybe you just kind of deal with the race and use those resources to set yourselves up for the next 85% of the game.


Which (with three cargo pods and three unused spaces) nets fifteen cubes and jumps you into a tier three with five thousand credits to spend if you sell the pods.

Been there, done that, it worked well.

Yeah, that particular situation doesn't happen that often.
And even less often do I have the Puddle Jumper to take advantage.

But if you look at the board you sometimes find similar early game opportunities to exploit whatever special ability your tier one hull has if you have liquid assets. If nothing turns up it's only two thousand credits to upgrade to a D12 engine.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ed y
msg tools
Phogg wrote:


Which (with three cargo pods and three unused spaces) nets fifteen cubes and jumps you into a tier three with five thousand credits to spend if you sell the pods.

Been there, done that, it worked well.

Yeah, that particular situation doesn't happen that often.
And even less often do I have the Puddle Jumper to take advantage.

But if you look at the board you sometimes find similar early game opportunities to exploit whatever special ability your tier one hull has if you have liquid assets. If nothing turns up it's only two thousand credits to upgrade to a D12 engine.


Again, I am not saying it isn't a valid strategy. What I'm saying is that You either lose a turn setting up for that, Or have to set up for it from the word go and hope. Either way, the T3+GTS is more reliable. Out of ten games you might get it off once, The T3+GTS will work 7 out of those ten. Sure, having the liquid assets to take advantage is good, but Equally I can gain liquid assets in the form of cubes and cash through exploration. Its a case of anything you can do, I can also do, oftentimes better.

Not to mention, if you go harvesting with the puddle jumper. lets say you run out of energy, Any energy loss rolls mean you have to disarm your armed markers. which can result in wasted turns.

You seem to be assuming I'm saying what you're doing is bad. I'm not. I'm saying its not optimal and relies on boardstate.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edwin Woody
United States
Pottsboro
Texas
flag msg tools
I'm trying to reform though.
badge
On the restless road to nowhere, there's no certain peace it seems.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Out of ten games you might get that particular one off once.
But there are a bunch of those.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ed y
msg tools
Phogg wrote:
Out of ten games you might get that particular one off once.
But there are a bunch of those.


So, We just played another game. And the situation you mentioned came up. Twice. I'm not kidding. Once for Holo, once for plasma. I was running the numerator with T3 engines and GTS. We had a player start with T2 engines, GTS and M-comp. Another player started with a T1 engine and GTS (holding 2k for trading). I can't remember what the 4th player ran with. but it was a t2 engine, a t1 shield and something else. Full 20 point game.
It was turn 2, we'd discovered about 50% of the board. and the first of the situations appeared, right next to the player who's load out I can't remember. I was dead (first player), having exploded with 5k to my name. The player with the M-comp was trying to finish missions, and the trader had decided instead to go ember mining (there was an ember mine right by the kiln)
I won't bore you with the specifics of the entire game, But it boils down to this: Flexibility is all well and good, but when I can get to t2 faster than you, and at turn 2 it doesn't matter, because I'll pick the ship that lets me exploit it harder than you can, and have some cash left over.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Jones
Ireland
flag msg tools
Eddieddi wrote:
You get a 'captain in need' mission, the delivery location is close enough to a planet. go back and forth across a mission space to grab a dozen or more cards, Find a mission that is either same type with a start/finish spot close enough to your captain in need, preferably on a planet. same type,good or outlaw it doesn't matter. And just rush that down, drop the captain off, finish the mission. get your extra credits. It might be a case of its 3 autistics and 2 neurotypical people that we tend to bore down to the 'best' strategy pretty fast, Looking past the games theme and feel and going at the raw mechanics.


You can't do this. The captain in need mission fills your mission slot, so unless you have an M-COMP upgrade you can't have a captain in need mission and another mission.

Also I think in general you're being a bit blase about the penalty for dying. If you die blind jumping on your first activation thats an entire turn gone. You only respawn on your next turn. That's a big hit considering how few turns you generally get.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bern Harkins
United States
Buffalo
New York
flag msg tools
Do the right thing. It's usually obvious.
badge
I has a stick! A tiny green stick!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Eddieddi wrote:
...dinky little 'space van' (what we call the swamp rat).


We call it the "hippy van" or the "Mystery Machine".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.