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Subject: Its all "kicking off" in the kickstarter rss

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Stefan Tymoshyshyn
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There's been a lot of "keyboard fighting" in the KS comments just lately, with a lot of people not happy with the way Golden Bell are dealing with the delivery problems for EU backers. This, on the back of the late pledger emails asking for extra funds.
Some backers feel that GB are emphasising that this is their game now and not Artem's and this has drawn some very vitriolic comments from GB.
I loved this project when it started and expected there to be some hiccups on the way but it has taken a nasty turn of late and I'll be glad when it is over and I finally receive my game.
I'm not sure GB have helped themselves to encourage potential backers of future projects.
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Tom Lam
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Also see Dungeon Dice the Lost King KS.....super mess all around, makes you wonder.

I expected no hiccups, campaign was running along splendidly, Artem is/was Awesome...was just waiting for the delivery, then found out it’s GB...now I’m concerned.
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Stefan Tymoshyshyn
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Hakka Games wrote:
Also see Dungeon Dice the Lost King KS.....super mess all around, makes you wonder.

I expected no hiccups, campaign was running along splendidly, Artem is/was Awesome...was just waiting for the delivery, then found out it’s GB...now I’m concerned.


I think you'll be ok in US as the games are being shipped there now. Its us in the EU I fear for as there doesn't seem to be a plan in place for delivery, so games are being held in China whilst they decide what to do.
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Derek Bowen
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You should really check out the other thread on this. In particular the links to court documents about lawsuits against golden Bell's CEO. It should be no surprise they're claiming it's "their game" and not Artem's. Nor should any lack of professionalism on their side shock any backer.
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Johann Georg Strobl
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I see it the same way - the games for US will be most likely fine.

With the latest comment from GBS on the KS it is now evident that they still have to figure out what to do with the EU games.. and that they will concentrate on EU only after all others have been delivered...
 
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Artem Safarov
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Hi Stefan,

First off - thank you for the support of the project. We are working through the EU shipment and it will get to the backers - it's taking some time and I'm sorry for that but it will certainly get to you.

Because I am in daily contact with Golden Bell about this - I can tell you that they are definitely putting in a lot of work to make sure games get to all the backers. I hope the most recent KS comment I left regarding the collaborative nature / ownership of the project helps clarify that.

Personally, it is tough for me to see these somewhat antagonistic conversations taking place and I hope as US backers will start getting their games - it will help build confidence in the project for all backers.

@Tom thank you for your kind words. I hope you enjoy the game when you get it!
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Artem Safarov
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Hi Johann,

Good to see you here - thanks again for your help with looking over the German version!

The work on sorting out EU shipment is happening in parralel with sending out the US copies, it will not be held up because of it. We are focusing on getting it out as soon as we can.

Thanks again for your support!
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Ian the Inexorable
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kladan wrote:
Hi Stefan,

First off - thank you for the support of the project. We are working through the EU shipment and it will get to the backers - it's taking some time and I'm sorry for that but it will certainly get to you.

Because I am in daily contact with Golden Bell about this - I can tell you that they are definitely putting in a lot of work to make sure games get to all the backers. I hope the most recent KS comment I left regarding the collaborative nature / ownership of the project helps clarify that.

Personally, it is tough for me to see these somewhat antagonistic conversations taking place and I hope as US backers will start getting their games - it will help build confidence in the project for all backers.

@Tom thank you for your kind words. I hope you enjoy the game when you get it!


Dude, just kudos on the level and tone of your communication. Over 16,500 backers. Please, don’t let the upset ones grind down your commitment to respectful communication.

Looking forward to playing the game!
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Johann Georg Strobl
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kladan wrote:
Hi Johann,

Good to see you here - thanks again for your help with looking over the German version!

The work on sorting out EU shipment is happening in parralel with sending out the US copies, it will not be held up because of it. We are focusing on getting it out as soon as we can.

Thanks again for your support!


Thanks for clarification - it was not completely obvious (at least for me).

I'm sorry to hear the problems you are facing with 'our' fullfillment, but I hope you will sort it out.

And thanks for the very professional attidute even the sea is harsh :-)
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Stefan Tymoshyshyn
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kladan wrote:
Hi Stefan,

First off - thank you for the support of the project. We are working through the EU shipment and it will get to the backers - it's taking some time and I'm sorry for that but it will certainly get to you.

Because I am in daily contact with Golden Bell about this - I can tell you that they are definitely putting in a lot of work to make sure games get to all the backers. I hope the most recent KS comment I left regarding the collaborative nature / ownership of the project helps clarify that.

Personally, it is tough for me to see these somewhat antagonistic conversations taking place and I hope as US backers will start getting their games - it will help build confidence in the project for all backers.

@Tom thank you for your kind words. I hope you enjoy the game when you get it!


Thanks Artem. I have never lost faith in your commitment to this game and admire your sincerity. I really am looking forward to getting the game in my hands.
I wish I had as much faith and belief in GB though. I also do not like their aggressive attitude and tone to backers.
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Alexandre Santos
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I don't follow comments on KS, is there an issue with EU shipping ?
 
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Tom Lam
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steftymo wrote:
kladan wrote:
Hi Stefan,

First off - thank you for the support of the project. We are working through the EU shipment and it will get to the backers - it's taking some time and I'm sorry for that but it will certainly get to you.

Because I am in daily contact with Golden Bell about this - I can tell you that they are definitely putting in a lot of work to make sure games get to all the backers. I hope the most recent KS comment I left regarding the collaborative nature / ownership of the project helps clarify that.

Personally, it is tough for me to see these somewhat antagonistic conversations taking place and I hope as US backers will start getting their games - it will help build confidence in the project for all backers.

@Tom thank you for your kind words. I hope you enjoy the game when you get it!


Thanks Artem. I have never lost faith in your commitment to this game and admire your sincerity. I really am looking forward to getting the game in my hands.
I wish I had as much faith and belief in GB though. I also do not like their aggressive attitude and tone to backers.


I agree with this,and have the same sentiment. Looking forward to your cool design Artem.
 
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Peter Hofland
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AlexFS wrote:
I don't follow comments on KS, is there an issue with EU shipping ?


If I'm reading the comments on the KS correctly we will have an update on EU shipping soon. From what I've read for the KS backer, not late backers, there is an issue to resolve before EU shipping will commence. Once solved an update will be shared via KS.

At this point I'm hoping for the game to be delivered to EU backers but I'm not convinced it will. Be aware that I often look at a glass half empty instead of half full ...
 
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David Hebart-Coleman
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Wow, it is vitriolic in there. I didn't back the game, especially as I really only back a couple of games each year, and those are from established companies (not that this always helps) but I am looking forwardto it being available in retail later. It looks good, and I almost pre-ordered, but now I am glad that I decided to wait. Sorry to see many of the comments tho'
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Ronald
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This whole kerfuffle reminds me why "back-and-forget" is a good strategy to keep my blood pressure in check. I tend to avoid KS comments because people are simply too impatient and then things tend to escalate quickly.

Thanks to Artem for the reassurance on EU shipping. I am sure everything will turn out all right.
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Whisky Fan
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I admit that I simply can’t stand to see the manner how Golden Bell answers at KS.

They aren’t able to take criticism - especially that it’s not understandable that shipping is handled like they got totally surprised by the amount of parcels/backers (though well known since last year, when the Kickstarter ended) - but only can defend and act like a prima Donna..

It’s the worst „always someone else to blame“-behavior I’ve ever seen by any company.
For me, personally, it’s just disgusting.
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Ebbe Cee
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Honestly none of GB's comments have really meant anything to me after I read court documents on their two open lawsuits. They are being sued for millions of dollars directly related to past kickstarters. Even if I had trust in the company I would be worried about their ability to deliver in that situation, but the content of those documents make feel like a fully completed delivery is a pipe dream.

I feel bad for the designer, because I'm sure he didn't know what he was getting in to when he signed the contract with GB. I just hope he didn't sign off the rights to any future intellectual property over to them.
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Jeff Sylvester
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It's honestly hard for me to tell what's going on, but the tone of GB's communication is super off-putting.

This comment in particular is disturbing to me:

Quote:
A side note about the PR that we were all talking about. While those comments are duly noted, it's also equally important to understand that there is a prominent belief in many business circles that PR is a dying breed due to the way media is consumed. Think about how everyone is obsessed with just today's news...take for instance a lawsuit that you see pop up in the news, it's on everyone's mind for a day or two and the court of public opinion immediately assumes they're guilty, but then months (sometimes years) down the line they are found to be innocent. Best example I can think of is the Kesha lawsuit. People can say oh don't say this don't say that, but at the end of the day there is so much out there that is bigger than a delayed shipment that everyone is getting anyway that has driven a lot of companies into understanding that PR is probably a dying breed due to the constant change of what is "today's hot news".


Wading into the topic of rape accusations (Is the implication here that Kesha's accusation was false? Is that established? Is this really the appropriate place to get into that kind of discussion?) and how they are handled in the "court of public opinion" is really off-topic for updates on the shipping progress of a game.

I was very excited for this product and felt the KS campaign was run very well, but I now have a very bad taste in my mouth. It's not so much the actions, but the tone. And I suppose GB has just decided that PR isn't worth it, but that's a real shame. I'll be staying away from them in the future if at all possible.

Delaying in shipment isn't a big deal. But the way GB communicates, none of which has been directed at me, is just not something I want to be involved with in the future.
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Rick Mann
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I'm really looking forward to this game. I will more than likely back Artem's future endeavors, but I may choose to not if Golden Bell is involved. I base this on the tone (unprofessional, rude, and inflamatory imho) of Golden Bell's recent posts in the KS comments. People are looking for simple facts, not excuse laden condescending rambles.
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Stefan Tymoshyshyn
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MostlyHarmlesss wrote:
It's honestly hard for me to tell what's going on, but the tone of GB's communication is super off-putting.

This comment in particular is disturbing to me:

Quote:
A side note about the PR that we were all talking about. While those comments are duly noted, it's also equally important to understand that there is a prominent belief in many business circles that PR is a dying breed due to the way media is consumed. Think about how everyone is obsessed with just today's news...take for instance a lawsuit that you see pop up in the news, it's on everyone's mind for a day or two and the court of public opinion immediately assumes they're guilty, but then months (sometimes years) down the line they are found to be innocent. Best example I can think of is the Kesha lawsuit. People can say oh don't say this don't say that, but at the end of the day there is so much out there that is bigger than a delayed shipment that everyone is getting anyway that has driven a lot of companies into understanding that PR is probably a dying breed due to the constant change of what is "today's hot news".


Wading into the topic of rape accusations (Is the implication here that Kesha's accusation was false? Is that established? Is this really the appropriate place to get into that kind of discussion?) and how they are handled in the "court of public opinion" is really off-topic for updates on the shipping progress of a game.

I was very excited for this product and felt the KS campaign was run very well, but I now have a very bad taste in my mouth. It's not so much the actions, but the tone. And I suppose GB has just decided that PR isn't worth it, but that's a real shame. I'll be staying away from them in the future if at all possible.

Delaying in shipment isn't a big deal. But the way GB communicates, none of which has been directed at me, is just not something I want to be involved with in the future.


Exactly my feelings.
 
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Jack Reilly
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Just wanted to chime in that it sucks this is happening to Artem's game. I never got around to backing Unbroken on Kickstarter due to some personal issues, but I very much enjoyed a prototype copy I played and so I'm looking forward to picking up a KS copy or a retail copy.

The few times I've talked to him, it's been clear Artem is a great guy and a very active BGG user and has developed a great game.
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Blayne Miley
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Artem,

Thank you for the tone, enthusiasm, and frequency of your communication throughout this campaign. In my mind, you have demonstrated a wonderful example for other content creators to follow. I look forward to receiving my copy of Unbroken!
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Artem Safarov
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Hey folks,

Jack, Blayne, Ian, Rick and many others - thank you so much for the supportive comments. The recent turn for the confrontational in the campaign is wearing heavily on me and reading supportive comments like yours really makes a big difference. I sincerely appreciate it.

I do want to say that despite the tons of criticism the Golden Bell team faces - they continue to put in hours and hours of work on a daily basis to make sure everyone gets their games (we spent two hours on the phone with Marc just today). I hope once the games are in hand and are being enjoyed - their efforts will be appreciated.
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Jeff Sylvester
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Artem, as respectfully as I can possibly say this, because you always seem decent and respectful yourself, this hasn’t passively “turned confrontational”. Golden Bell has made it confrontational. I realize there have been some negative commenters, but at every turn Golden Bell has escalated the situation with their responses, even giving a defense of their lack of PR that I quoted above (which weirdly delved into the area of whether people rush to judgement in rape cases, a political firestorm that makes Golden Bell sound, to me, a lot like those people who say things like “it’s a scary time for men”- maybe that was not the implication, but they opened that door by going to that subject and talking about rape accusations).

At this point, it’s not about the hard work they are putting in. If you say they are working hard, then I believe you. And that’s great. But that’s not the problem. The problem is the way Golden Bell is treating YOUR backers. And they are explicitly unapologetic about it.

Commend them for their work, by all means. But as the guy we all backed for this, it would be great if you could encourage them to treat us better. Because this is not something I’d ever want to be a part of again.

I hope your game does well. I hope I enjoy it. But I’m a bit sorry I’m subscribed to notifications about it, because I’d have done a lot better not seeing how Golden Bell is talking to your backers.
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Whisky Fan
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I see 3 things:

First, the team of Golden Bell has hard working, good people. I don’t criticize the team and am sure that they really try to do their best.

Second, the one who is responsible especially for the shipping process is not good and doesn’t have the gift to work as conceptional and professional as we can expect it from such a big(ger) company, involved in more than one KS now.
He’s one that can be criticized.

Third, Marc.
He’s unbearable and should never be unleashed on customers.
It’s more than obvious that this man has a mind-problem, his narcissism is pathological, and I mean this without any irony.
This man needs help, he lives in his own little world where all others are bad and evil and he alone understands how unfair he gets treated.
You can’t discuss with a pathological narcissist, this only leads to endless disputes - exactly what we see on KS actually and unfortunately.


So, in the end, my opinion is:

We should not simply criticize „Golden Bell“, as the men and women there surely give their best and work hard.

But we can quite tell that especially the shipping process is simply bad managed (which is a personal problem of the responsible person, so it’s justified to never use Golden Bell again as long as this unprofessional person still has this important role in the team).

And that most of the negative dispute and endless arguing can be traced back to the personal mind condition of Marc.
And as long as this poor man has such an important role to be in contact with all customers on a public forum, everyone is in right to say „not again Golden Bell“.

It’s sad, but one single person can undermine the whole good work of the rest of a team.
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