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Falling Sky: The Gallic Revolt Against Caesar» Forums » Rules

Subject: Wording Question Regarding NP Averni/Belgae rss

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Jesse Doe
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Maybe I’m dense, but in that upper left diamond, shouldn’t it read “Ambiorix and/or 4+ Belgic Warbands...”?

The way it’s worded now makes it seem like either Ambiorix has to be there or the warbands, but not both, which can’t be right.



 
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Paul Schroeder

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(I don't have the documents in front of me, but I bet the decision trees are inconsistent with their usage of "or" and "and/or" [maybe just in this case], which would make this confusing, if that's the case, just read the next sentence)

I'm like 99% sure this is an and/or situation based on context.

You've stumbled upon one of the many Easter eggs hidden in the English language though, congrats!

For example, if I say:
If thing A or thing B, then...

The word "or" in logical evaluation will resolve the statement to true when:
1. thing A is true
2. thing B is true
3. thing A and B are both true.

The word "or" in normal conversation is a really gray fuzzy area, and this is where your confusion stems from.

Example 1 (aka "Inclusive Or"):
If grandma is hungry or thirsty, please pick her up something from the store.

Would you not go to the store if grandma was either hungry or thirsty, but not both hungry and thirsty? In this case, the intent was clear that if she was either, or both, you should go to the store.

Example 2 (aka "Exclusive Or"):
In a restaurant; would you like Soup or Salad?

Here, they are clearly indicating you can choose one or the other. If you actually did want both, most restaurants would up-charge you.


Your confusion may stem from the presumption that normal language only uses one interpretation (what you said above indicates exclusive or). This is not the case. Normal language usage of "or" needs context to interpret. On the other hand, when reading any sort of "technical" document, you can usually assume the usage of "or" is the inclusive version.

I would argue that since we are viewing a decision tree (something technical in nature) and it also doesn't make much sense to use exclusive or here in context; the document is using the inclusive or.
 
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Jesse Doe
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Well you sound like a man who knows his and/ors. You’re right, context is everything, so if you get a chance to look at the chart, let me know what you think.

It must be and/or, right?
 
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Mark Evans
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Jedo1 wrote:
Maybe I’m dense, but in that upper left diamond, shouldn’t it read “Ambiorix and/or 4+ Belgic Warbands...”?

The way it’s worded now makes it seem like either Ambiorix has to be there or the warbands, but not both, which can’t be right.





I went through the flowchart and rules. They are consistent with each other anyways. They both use 'or'. Typically the designer uses 'and/or' to mean A or B or both. He uses 'or' typically to mean A or B, not both.

I have to think in this context he was shooting for and/or. Because it is a trigger. Like A or B being true allows something to happen.

If you do something good you get A or B would mean A or B not both. Just my thoughts. But technically it could go either way based on the designer's usage or and/or and or in the past.
 
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Jesse Doe
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drmark64 wrote:
Jedo1 wrote:
Maybe I’m dense, but in that upper left diamond, shouldn’t it read “Ambiorix and/or 4+ Belgic Warbands...”?

The way it’s worded now makes it seem like either Ambiorix has to be there or the warbands, but not both, which can’t be right.





I went through the flowchart and rules. They are consistent with each other anyways. They both use 'or'. Typically the designer uses 'and/or' to mean A or B or both. He uses 'or' typically to mean A or B, not both.

I have to think in this context he was shooting for and/or. Because it is a trigger. Like A or B being true allows something to happen.

If you do something good you get A or B would mean A or B not both. Just my thoughts. But technically it could go either way based on the designer's usage or and/or and or in the past.


Yeah, I'm 90% certain he meant and/or. It's just that he really stresses the or with italics, so I was following verbatim and no battles were happening!

(Unless Volko bursts in and says I'm mad, it may be a good clarification to have on future printings).
 
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Mark Evans
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I am not saying this product is abandoned but Volko and Orjan don't seem to be as active,I think they have moved on to other projects.
 
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Petr Míka
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I think these bots are Volko's, not Oerjan's. So we don't get Oerjan's incredible support as on other COINs.
 
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Mark Evans
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I didn't know that. But it makes sense.
 
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Jesse Doe
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Looking at the bot play example in the playbook, it's indeed an and/or situation. They may want to change the chart wording in the future, but looks like most players just looked ahead and intuited it anyway (unlike me shake).
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Paul Schroeder

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Jedo1 wrote:
Looking at the bot play example in the playbook, it's indeed an and/or situation. They may want to change the chart wording in the future, but looks like most players just looked ahead and intuited it anyway (unlike me shake).


Sorry I'm late. I usually don't subscribe to threads because I'm lazy. I just played solo the other day, and the way the bot plays, it wouldn't make sense as exclusive or (as interpreting it that way would in a lot of cases leave the forces vulnerable or not take advantage of good situations).

So, in lieu of an official response, I play it as and/or.
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