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Subject: Lizard Cult vs Mechanical Marquise - how to win this? rss

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Roman Höritzsch
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Hej there,

yesterday I did three consecutive solo runs with the lizards against those soulless cat robots using the "hard" cooperative rules - and scored 15, 19 and 8 points. cry

It is not a problem for me to lose a few games, but I have absolutely no clue how this can be won...

I figured out these issues:

1. Starting Player: Of course I randomized the starting player. In my three games the cats started every time, meaning that I had no control over my starting outcast suit. Also, in one game the marquise started with a bird order leaving me with only the four starting pieces an some acolytes I had no use for. So, not starting is a big drawback against the evil robo-cats.

2. The Keep's position: I also randomized the Keep, which creates a slight edge for the MM as the upper right corner seems to be the most advategous for the lizards. It has two slots and allows for a second garden i.e. an extra card drwa on turn one, provided you have a matching hand.

3. The Keep itself: Yeah, I hate it. The Lizards cannot put warriors there. That means you have to move there and movement is a big issue as you can move only from outcast clearings... in all my games I had problems dealing with the three warriors (I call a "garrison")at the keep.

4. Scoring vs Ruling: My main problem was, that the cats spammed the board with warriors every turn, having a full complement of 25 warriors on the board by the end of most of their turns, leaving me three or four garrisons to deal with on my turn. There are only two ways the lizards can deal with these garrisons: battle them or spam warriors for a tie. First strategy is dependend on the availability of acolytes. In all three games I had the situation where my hated outcast clearing had been depleted, because the marquise recruited new cats elsewhere. No cats, no converts. No converts, no crusades. This is especially frustrating if you have a whole bunch of acolytes ready for action. The other strategy is spamming warriors on clearings the cats rule to achieve (at least) a tie. This leads to a point where I regularly use all my hand cards to place warriors in order to break the cat's garrison rule and prevent from scoring seven points each round. That being said, there are no resources left to build (and defend) gardens, not to mention discarding cards to score. Thus, the late game scoring ability of the Lizards is ill suited against the mechanical marquise.

5. Bird cards: I found bird cards in my hand more a hindrance than anything else. If I place an acolyte, I don't place a warrior. And, of course there is a steady supply of acolytes already as the cats battle me every round. Okay, then discard those feathery fiends! Ahh, but then I lose control over my outcast suit which will in turn be determined randomly via the cat's order.

Maybe I am missing something, but I simply have no idea how to beat the mechanical marquise with lizards. Has anyone ever done this? Is there something one can proactively do to achieve this. Or is a streak of lucky card draws (orders and hand cards) the only chance?

I tried to battle the mechanical marquise with the eyrie two times and won both games. It was close both times, but I had the feeling of self-efficacy and of meaningful decisions. Playing with the lizards had a purely reactive feeling.

Some ideas out there?
 
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Andrew B
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It's been a long time since I played against the Mechanical Marquise, but I remember having success with the Lizards. This was using their original ruleset, before it had been updated. It sounds like you are still using those old rules. If you are not aware of the rule updates for the Lizard Cult, you should download the new Law of Root and check it out. I should mention that I don't believe I used the Cooperative Play rules when playing solo, so that makes things a bit easier.

My failures turned to successes when I started recruiting my warriors in clearings where I new they would probably be killed, instead of trying to build an army. This gives you more acolytes, which you need.

Don't forget that you rule any clearing containing a garden. You can use this stifle the Marquise's ability to move and recruit.

Finally, you should check out the fan-made options for playing solo. The Better Bot project does a much better job of automating the Marquise player (and other factions) than the Mechanical Marquise. I also posted a Marquise Bot a while ago here which I think does a pretty good job of replicating the feel of a human player.



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Roman Höritzsch
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Drewkas wrote:
Don't forget that you rule any clearing containing a garden. You can use this stifle the Marquise's ability to move and recruit.


Hell yeah, rule is still important for moving. Have not thought about that. I am not sure if that would ever made a difference, but it's good to keep in mind.

Unfortunately rule does not help to hinder recruiting as in cooperative mode the MM recruits regardless of rule. Therefore the gardens strewn out across the board became just additional points for the MM (my Lizard Warriors already gone fighting the cats elsewhere in the forest).

Drewkas wrote:
Finally, you should check out the fan-made options for playing solo. The Better Bot project does a much better job of automating the Marquise player (and other factions) than the Mechanical Marquise. I also posted a Marquise Bot a while ago here which I think does a pretty good job of replicating the feel of a human player.


Thank you so much! I preordered the new automated factions with the underworld expansion, but was not aware that they are already available. This means I can already play against those bots before my cardboard variants arrive in December.

I will have a look at your AMdC as well and maybe post a session report.

Thanks!
 
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Kevin Walsh
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Drewkas wrote:

Don't forget that you rule any clearing containing a garden. You can use this stifle the Marquise's ability to move and recruit.

Do you mean move and build? I don't think there's any restriction on recruiting in clearings you don't rule.
 
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Andrew B
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Amaranth wrote:
Drewkas wrote:

Don't forget that you rule any clearing containing a garden. You can use this stifle the Marquise's ability to move and recruit.

Do you mean move and build? I don't think there's any restriction on recruiting in clearings you don't rule.


The Mechanical Marquise can't recruit in clearings it doesn't rule, except under the special rules for cooperative play.
 
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Roberto Duca
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Khumbanigash wrote:
yesterday I did three consecutive solo runs with the lizards against those soulless cat robots using the "hard" cooperative rules - and scored 15, 19 and 8 points. cry


I feel your pain...
(The Lizard Cult vs. the Mechanical Marquise)
 
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Roman Höritzsch
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bobborobbo wrote:
Khumbanigash wrote:
yesterday I did three consecutive solo runs with the lizards against those soulless cat robots using the "hard" cooperative rules - and scored 15, 19 and 8 points. cry


I feel your pain...
(The Lizard Cult vs. the Mechanical Marquise)


Thank you! Shared suffering can be so relieving...
 
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