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Twilight Imperium (Fourth Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: This vs Space empires 4x rss

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steffan kristensen
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I'm looking for a new space game for my group. TI has always been on my radar, but then I became aware of Spce Empires 4x.

I've been looking at some videos, and looked up some forum threads. But I could only find comparisons to TI3.

I hope you guys can help me decide

This is what I've concluded so far. Please correct me if I'm wrong or something is vastly different in TI4

- Space empires is shorter, and plays better with lower player counts. TI is 4+ players for the best experience.

- Space empires is far more combat focused.
- The way bookkeeping and tech is handled in Space Empires(writing it down). Seems old fashioned, and looks like it will cause downtime.

- TI has far more diplomacy. This can be a good thing, but I've also experience diplomacy games with atrocious ammounts of downtime, because 2 players spent forever trying to come to an agreement.

- TI seems more streamlined. Maybe too much? From videos it almost seems like a rather simple game, that has been artficially stretched to take a long time, to feel more epic.

- TI has far more variation due to unique races and the objective cards.

- Since you dont know what will score you VP in TI, I can imagine you will have to constantly adjust you strategy an adapt. Wheras Space Empires is all about winning combat, meaning you can go for the same approach every game.

- I've heard Shut up and sit down say that TI is about avoiding battles, since they can be costly. Is this true? And can't this lead to stalemates where each player just continues to strengthen his boarders, without anything happening, because noone dares maje the first move?

- Anything else I should know?

Thanks in advance. I always appreciate the help from this great forum
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Miquel Garcia
Spain
TIANA
BARCELONA
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Very different games.

TI plays like an eurogame while SE4X plays more like a wargame.

I was surprised by how well the bookeeping is handled in SE4X almost not deviating your attention from the board and the game was far more agile than expected.

TI has more 'chrome' with the gorgeous components but SE4X simple components do their job very well.

I feel that in TI you are gaming the system trying to chose the actions and achieve your random objectives. In SE4X you have to develop your strategy and take more strategic/tactical decisions, no random card will tell you what you must do.

SE4X it's more combat oriented and there is a lot of friction, the game rewards agression. In TI combat should be avoided if you can, you win nothing by combat you have to go for vp's.



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ludek michera
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I also see the difference in # of players needed. 4X is best for 2(4) while TI4 is for 6. But aside from theme there is probably nothing in common.
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Nick Naz
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Interesting timing on this question- I just played my first two games of Space Empires 4x over the weekend after playing TI4 as much as possible for a year and a half.
Space Empires 4x is what you get when you take TI4 make the map MUCH bigger, add in exploration tokens to EVERY hex, make combat NON-simultaneous, get rid of almost all diplomacy and replace it with 110% more technology trees, then add in a very neat "fog-of-war" movement system. Is it better or worse than TI4? Depends what you want to do- If you want arguments and trading and backstabbing; go for TI4. If you want combat, tactics, and technology with almost no player interaction outside of fighting, go with SE4x. SE4x reminds me a lot of the original Supreme Commander computer game, if you're familiar. There are people that want TI4 to be a wargame, they will really like SE4x. I thought I would hate the pen and paper accounting in SE4x but I liked it better than the HUD token set-up in TI4, and the fact that it was hidden information was very nice. It does mean SE4x is just as much of a PITA to teach as TI4 is, because while SE4x is simpler, EVERYTHING is hidden information so you might not catch a mistake until 8+ turns have passed. Two very different games though, but both good in their own ways. I'm not sure I would play SE4x at 4 players unless it was 2v2. And SE4x seems really good at 1v1.
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Ralf Brechtel
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Space empires..TI4...good games, but long. For me the best 4x at this moment is "Intervention - Reach for the stars". You have a universe to discover ( a big one for more exploration, a smaller one for more conflict ). Your spaceships discover habitable planets to colonize, Alien planets to conquer or to make trade treaties, black holes, empty space. astrroid fields to mine. You spend gold for research. you get unexpected events, 4 different races. you can play against each other ( 2 - 4 players ) or form alliances, play two vs two...It is more simplified than the other two games, sure. But you can fight two times over ruling the universe in the same time. But taste is different, and this is only my opinion. feel free to check and tell what you think. ...and if you play Master of Orion2 20 years ago like me..you love it.
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Cam T.
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I've only played Space Empires 4x and, just so you know, it probably is not any shorter at 4+ players. A 4 player game took us 8 hours. I think it's a really good game though, but would rather stick with the two players next time for a more reasonable length. By the way, that old school note taking with the pad and pencil is probably the most fun part of the game! It's when you get to decide how to spend all your money--researching tech or building new ships, etc. with lots of interesting choices.

Meanwhile, dammit, I haven't had a chance to play TI4 yet. It sounds like it could be my favourite game of all time!

I'd get both if you can find the players.
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ludek michera
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When I was buying 4X I was told, that if the game is longer than 90 minutes, we are playing it wrong. Never get under 4 hours actually, but tried only couple of times.
 
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Neil Isagam
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ksfga wrote:
When I was buying 4X I was told, that if the game is longer than 90 minutes, we are playing it wrong. Never get under 4 hours actually, but tried only couple of times.


You were lied to All of my 4X 2 player games took 2 1/2 - 3 hours. I could see them going down to 2 hours with repeated plays, but who's got the time? Great game though.
 
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Ralf Brechtel
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That's why i like beside the other named 4x games "Intervention". a two player game around 60, a 4 player around 90 minutes. As working people we rarely have 3 - 4 hours for a game in the evening and, honestly, on the weekend there are a few other things i like to do and not sitting for hours on one game.
 
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