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Subject: Attack Effect: rule questions rss

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On page 22 under Attack Effects there is:

"Attack effects are applied regardless of whether the corresponding attack does damage. These effects (except experience gains) are optional and can be skipped."

I'm confused as to which effects are actually optional?

-Is poison an "Attack Effect"?

-If so does that mean it's optional?

-Are "Attack Effects" only Push, Pull, Pierce, or Target X?

-If so, they are all optional then?

Sorry if this has been answered before or is obvious, I couldn't find any information about it online and am thoroughly stumped.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Page 22, section Attack Effects, seems to list attack effects. (It seems this is the last subsection in the Attack section.)

Poison etc. are Conditions, which seems to be the next section after the Attack section. It's hard to say though because there are no section numbers...

I.e.
Character Turn
1.Move
1.1 Revealing a Room
2.Attack
2.1 Advantage and Disadvantage
2.2 Area Effects
2.3 Attack Effects
3.Conditions
4.Elemental Infusions
5.Active Bonuses
5.1 Shield
5.2 Retaliate
6.Heal
7.Summon
8.Recover and Refresh
9.Loot
9.1 End-of-Turn Looting
10.Gaining Experience
11.Character Damage
12.Exhaustion
13.Items
 
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a1bert wrote:
Page 22, section Attack Effects, seems to list attack effects.

(Poison etc. are conditions.)


So "Attack Effects" are only Push, Pull, Pierce, or Target X"? And these are all optional?

Are Conditions (Poison, Wound, Immobilize, Disarm, Stun, Muddle, or Curse) optional?

(All of this in the context of the PC applying said effect)
 
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thetoastykitten wrote:
Are Conditions (Poison, Wound, Immobilize, Disarm, Stun, Muddle, or Curse) optional?

The rules give no hint that negative conditions would be optional.

The rules say "can apply positive conditions ... through specific actions. Positive conditions cannot be prematurely removed" , but regardless of the "can" the sentence structure seems doesn't confirm them being optional (because you can choose to not perform those actions).
 
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a1bert wrote:
Page 22, section Attack Effects, seems to list attack effects. (It seems this is the last subsection in the Attack section.)

Poison etc. are Conditions, which seems to be the next section after the Attack section. It's hard to say though because there are no section numbers...

I.e.
Character Turn
1.Move
1.1 Revealing a Room
2.Attack
2.1 Advantage and Disadvantage
2.2 Area Effects
2.3 Attack Effects
3.Conditions
4.Elemental Infusions
5.Active Bonuses
5.1 Shield
5.2 Retaliate
6.Heal
7.Summon
8.Recover and Refresh
9.Loot
9.1 End-of-Turn Looting
10.Gaining Experience
11.Character Damage
12.Exhaustion
13.Items


Is this list stated somewhere in the rule-book?

Edit: Nvm, I'm assuming this is just a logical order one could devise based on reading the rule-book (I could not find an actual list in the book).
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Okay, so I'm going to assume then that Attack Effects and Conditions are two separate entities.

Therefore when the rule-book states that "Attack Effects can be optionally applied", it is only referring to Push, Pull, Pierce, or Target X.

And Conditions must be applied by the PC if it is stated on the card (The PC does not have a choice).

Edit: Nvm? See below.
 
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al Cann
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thetoastykitten wrote:
a1bert wrote:
Page 22, section Attack Effects, seems to list attack effects. (It seems this is the last subsection in the Attack section.)

Poison etc. are Conditions, which seems to be the next section after the Attack section. It's hard to say though because there are no section numbers...

I.e.
Character Turn
1.Move
1.1 Revealing a Room
2.Attack
2.1 Advantage and Disadvantage
2.2 Area Effects
2.3 Attack Effects
3.Conditions
4.Elemental Infusions
5.Active Bonuses
5.1 Shield
5.2 Retaliate
6.Heal
7.Summon
8.Recover and Refresh
9.Loot
9.1 End-of-Turn Looting
10.Gaining Experience
11.Character Damage
12.Exhaustion
13.Items


Is this list stated somewhere in the rule-book?

Edit: Nvm, I'm assuming this is just a logical order one could devise based on reading the rule-book (I could not find an actual list in the book).


Sort of. Albert listed headings starting from Character Turn on page 18 through Items on page 28.

It says, as you pointed out, that Attack Effects are optional but the associated experience gains are not optional. I read that to mean that you can elect not to use an Attack Effect, but no matter, you still have to take the experience associated with that Attack Effect. I am not a GH rules maven so hopefully someone will chime in if my interpretation of the experience piece is incorrect.

As for the conditions, there is nothing to say that the conditions are optional ... so I read that to mean that they are not optional.
 
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albcann wrote:
thetoastykitten wrote:
a1bert wrote:
Page 22, section Attack Effects, seems to list attack effects. (It seems this is the last subsection in the Attack section.)

Poison etc. are Conditions, which seems to be the next section after the Attack section. It's hard to say though because there are no section numbers...

I.e.
Character Turn
1.Move
1.1 Revealing a Room
2.Attack
2.1 Advantage and Disadvantage
2.2 Area Effects
2.3 Attack Effects
3.Conditions
4.Elemental Infusions
5.Active Bonuses
5.1 Shield
5.2 Retaliate
6.Heal
7.Summon
8.Recover and Refresh
9.Loot
9.1 End-of-Turn Looting
10.Gaining Experience
11.Character Damage
12.Exhaustion
13.Items


Is this list stated somewhere in the rule-book?

Edit: Nvm, I'm assuming this is just a logical order one could devise based on reading the rule-book (I could not find an actual list in the book).


Sort of. Albert listed headings starting from Character Turn on page 18 through Items on page 28.

It says, as you pointed out, that Attack Effects are optional but the associated experience gains are not optional. I read that to mean that you can elect not to use an Attack Effect, but no matter, you still have to take the experience associated with that Attack Effect. I am not a GH rules maven so hopefully someone will chime in if my interpretation of the experience piece is incorrect.

As for the conditions, there is nothing to say that the conditions are optional ... so I read that to mean that they are not optional.


Okay, I just found this FAQ thread however: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1897763/official-faq-game-n....

And it lists Conditions as a cub-category of Attack Effects (See "Player Abilities" section).

As this is an "Official FAQ", I guess we should assume Conditions to also be "Attack Effects" then. That would therefore mean that they(Conditions) can be optionally applied by the PC?
 
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Jay Johnson
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Just to clarify, attack effects are only optional when it is a character making the attack. Monsters (and summoned allies, and NPCs) will always fully perform their abilities as much as they are able.

As for whether imparting conditions with your attack are optional or not, I've always considered them to be optional, though I can't recall ever opting not to impart negative conditions on an enemy when I had the chance.
 
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JayJ79 wrote:
Just to clarify, attack effects are only optional when it is a character making the attack. Monsters (and summoned allies, and NPCs) will always fully perform their abilities as much as they are able.

As for whether imparting conditions with your attack are optional or not, I've always considered them to be optional, though I can't recall ever opting not to impart negative conditions on an enemy when I had the chance.


This is what I'm thinking at this point. I guess I'll assume this, unless someone can prove otherwise.

Thank you for all the responses so far guys!
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thetoastykitten wrote:
And it lists Conditions as a cub-category of Attack Effects (See "Player Abilities" section).

As this is an "Official FAQ", I guess we should assume Conditions to also be "Attack Effects" then. That would therefore mean that they(Conditions) are optional?

Being an "Official FAQ" doesn't mean it could not have poor word choices by having a misleading header for attack-related effects.
Quote:
Attack Effects:
- +X (during damage resolution)
- Pierce (during damage resolution)
- Add Target (after the attack)
- Push/Pull (after attack)
- Conditions (after attack)
- Infusions (after attack)
- Conditional statements written in small font below the attack, like Cragheart's Heaving Swing (after attack)

Like the Conditions chapter hints, abilities other than attacks apply conditions (see Scoundrel). The Conditions chapter is not a subsection of attack effects, it's not a subsection of Attack.

But, it's your game, you can play as you like.

One question: if conditions were optional, how do you choose whether a hero gains the condition or not when monsters attack? The rules do not say to apply (positive or negative) conditions on monster attacks. (Edit: well, you could include that in "for maximum effect".)
 
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a1bert wrote:
thetoastykitten wrote:
And it lists Conditions as a cub-category of Attack Effects (See "Player Abilities" section).

As this is an "Official FAQ", I guess we should assume Conditions to also be "Attack Effects" then. That would therefore mean that they(Conditions) are optional?

Being an "Official FAQ" doesn't mean it could not have poor word choices by having a misleading header for attack-related effects.
Quote:
Attack Effects:
- +X (during damage resolution)
- Pierce (during damage resolution)
- Add Target (after the attack)
- Push/Pull (after attack)
- Conditions (after attack)
- Infusions (after attack)
- Conditional statements written in small font below the attack, like Cragheart's Heaving Swing (after attack)

Like the Conditions chapter hints, abilities other than attacks apply conditions (see Scoundrel). The Conditions chapter is not a subsection of attack effects, it's not a subsection of Attack.

But, it's your game, you can play as you like.

One question: if conditions were optional, how do you choose whether a hero gains the condition or not when monsters attack? The rules do not say to apply (positive or negative) conditions on monster attacks.



Okay, I guess it's just too ambiguous then (And isn't really important enough to be made not ambiguous).

As stated by Jay, I also assumed it was only referring to when the PC made an attack/action. Also as he said, I guess it really doesn't matter anyways, because when would one not want to apply a Condition?
 
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Jay Johnson
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a1bert wrote:
One question: if conditions were optional, how do you choose whether a hero gains the condition or not when monsters attack? The rules do not say to apply (positive or negative) conditions on monster attacks. (Edit: well, you could include that in "for maximum effect".)
Monsters (and summoned allies, and NPCs; anyone whose actions are dictated by the AI algorithm) will always perform their full abilities as much as they are able. they will never opt not to do something (other than movement, is clearly defined that they will only move the minimum amount needed to get to a spot where they can perform their attack(s) to a maximum effect, or to get adjacent to their focus if they don't have an attack).
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Jay Johnson
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thetoastykitten wrote:
I guess it really doesn't matter anyways, because when would one not want to apply a Condition?
there could conceivably be situations where you might not want to.
For instance, you're doing a ranged attack that immobilizes or stuns against a monster whose movement would take it into a trap (which only happens in rare circumstances, since monsters avoid traps whenever possible, see the rulebook section on that for more detail).
So you might opt not to stun/immobilize that enemy so that it would go into the trap (should it survive your attack).

But in any case, you would have to decide whether or not you're opting to apply the attack effects and/or conditions before flipping your attack modifier for that attack. Also, if it is an ability that affects multiple targets, if you apply the effect/condition to one target, you'd have to apply the effect/condition to all of them (you can't pick and choose to apply it to one, but not the others)
 
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