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Subject: Rules mistakes that made the game harder. rss

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Chester Payne
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I've been reading through the rules forums for several months now, ever since I got my copy of Gloomhaven. One thing that seems to be a common thread is that misinterpreting a rule usually makes the game easier. Such as new players using the attack modifier deck from the class box rather than the standard attack deck for resolving attacks or not realizing flying creatures do not trigger traps.

I'm wondering how many people out there have made a mistake with the rules that made the game harder, then had the epiphany moment when realizing the mistake, "OMG, that's going to make things so much easier?"

I recently had such an instance. Ever since my first reading of the game, I was under the impression that the card selected for the top action was the card that determined the initiative. It may not seem like it has much impact on game play, but I suggest players try playing with this mistake to see how it impacts how the game goes.

Once I figured out the mistake and explained it to my group, everyone's eyes got really big. The general thought was that playing it the correct way opens up so many more options.

Has anyone else had such a discovery where you found you were making things harder than they needed to be?
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Odysseus X
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In this game, I've only played a little bit, so all my rules mistakes are pretty drastic. But in the first level, we didnt remove traps. They didn't look like traps that triggered and stayed closed. Just spikes. So you gotta use winged shoes to avoid the spikes (If I even understood that rule correctly).

But this is common amongst my fiance and myself. We always over complicate and make rules harder. It's become an ongoing joke now that if we are trying to interpret a rule, we pause to laugh at how it's probably as simple as it sounds.

 
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Jack Spirio
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You do not even need to decide, which cards top will be played
You can choose that when it’s your turn
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Matthew Saloff
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I don't think we misinterpreted anything harder. Definitely a couple things easier, like advantage + rolling modifiers, is a big one that sticks out to me.

We did straight up *miss* a couple different rules that made things harder:

-We missed that you could lose a card (or 2 from discard pile) to cancel out all damage from one attack. Missing this... led to quite a few deaths early on.

-We missed that you could take 1 damage to random a different card to lose on a short rest, so we were always SUPER afraid to take short rests at crucial moments, in fear of losing the one critical card we absolutely needed.
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Luc Gratton
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Mattr0polis wrote:

-We missed that you could lose a card (or 2 from discard pile) to cancel out all damage from one attack. Missing this... led to quite a few deaths early on.


Omg I did not know this. I played with my girlfriend recently. She died due to a poison trap and got pretty sad haha. This would have saved her for sure I think.
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Richard McAteer
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We've made a few mistakes that made the game harder.

1) we missed the divide by 2 for calculating difficulty. So, when we were levels 4, 4, and 5, for example, that averaged to 4.333, so we would have rounded it up to 5. It was around this level, where we were facing level 5 scenarios, and we find out frustrating that we got no additional coins for doing it at level 5, so we were debating between dropping to "easy" at level 4 (actually hard, at L+1) or trying to bump it to "hard" at level 6 for the extra coin. We finished on easy, barely surviving, and got taking about how we could have played better, since we're not used to having trouble with any game on an easy seeing, and we re-checked the rule.

2) on certain scenarios with enemies whose health was determined by level and number of characters, the host had been setting the game up before I arrived, and had noted the health of the enemies (in the last such case, obstacles that had to be destroyed) and it turns out he had read them as C*3*L rather than C*(3+L), which made it very challenging.
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Jay Johnson
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Anatak15 wrote:
Omg I did not know this. I played with my girlfriend recently. She died due to a poison trap and got pretty sad haha. This would have saved her for sure I think.
another rules mistake. it should have just been your girlfriend's character that died. Not your girlfriend herself.....
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Jack Spirio
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Anatak15 wrote:
Omg I did not know this. I played with my girlfriend recently. She died due to a poison trap and got pretty sad haha. This would have saved her for sure I think.

Was it a poison or a poison +damage trap?
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Definitely the most common one is missing the "divide by 2" part for calculating difficulty. Even knowing it, I forgot it in the beginning as I was doing mental math, because I was already dividing by 2 to calculate the average, forgetting that I had to then divide by 2 again.
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al Cann
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Anatak15 wrote:
Mattr0polis wrote:

-We missed that you could lose a card (or 2 from discard pile) to cancel out all damage from one attack. Missing this... led to quite a few deaths early on.


Omg I did not know this. I played with my girlfriend recently. She died due to a poison trap and got pretty sad haha. This would have saved her for sure I think.


Hope you got a chance to suck out the poison .... devil
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Drake Coker
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albcann wrote:
Anatak15 wrote:
Mattr0polis wrote:

-We missed that you could lose a card (or 2 from discard pile) to cancel out all damage from one attack. Missing this... led to quite a few deaths early on.


Omg I did not know this. I played with my girlfriend recently. She died due to a poison trap and got pretty sad haha. This would have saved her for sure I think.


Hope you got a chance to suck out the poison .... devil


Now there's an old reference!
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Shawn H
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Monster movement. We were making things much more difficult. The Monster Movement quiz was eye opening to say the least.
 
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Luc Gratton
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Jack Spirio wrote:
Anatak15 wrote:
Omg I did not know this. I played with my girlfriend recently. She died due to a poison trap and got pretty sad haha. This would have saved her for sure I think.

Was it a poison or a poison +damage trap?


Yeah it was poison + damage haha. So she would have still been poisoned of sure, and might have died a few turns later anyways (things got dicey in the scenario). But it would have been better.
 
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Dexter345 wrote:
Definitely the most common one is missing the "divide by 2" part for calculating difficulty. Even knowing it, I forgot it in the beginning as I was doing mental math, because I was already dividing by 2 to calculate the average, forgetting that I had to then divide by 2 again.


My group definitely fell into that trap. It's especially easy to overlook for two players because, when you divide by the number of players, you're already dividing by two and forget to do it again. It was several scenarios before this mistake was caught.

I know we did other things wrong that made it worse, but I recently did something to make it easier: in a three player game, I set the monsters for two players. And, man, did we do great until halfway through when I started wondering how it was so easy and realized the mistake. We scrapped the scenario - lost all our experience and moola - and restarted with the correct monsters for three players.

Sad thing was, we were doing great partially because our modifier decks were drawing the best cards! When we reset, including reshuffling, suddenly our modifier decks were screwing us over. (But we won in the end. Even got the treasure chest!)
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Ze Azrael
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Only thing I can think of for us was summons not acting the turn they're summoned.

But I recently read a reddit thread where a group finished the main storyline without realizing monsters drop coins on death.
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Jeff Hofheins
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Ze_Azrael wrote:
Only thing I can think of for us was summons not acting the turn they're summoned.

But I recently read a reddit thread where a group finished the main storyline without realizing monsters drop coins on death.


Wait... I thought summons don't act on the turn they are summoned because their initiative is 1 lower than their character who summoned them..?
 
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Jack Spirio
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JeffHofOpt wrote:
Ze_Azrael wrote:
Only thing I can think of for us was summons not acting the turn they're summoned.

But I recently read a reddit thread where a group finished the main storyline without realizing monsters drop coins on death.


Wait... I thought summons don't act on the turn they are summoned because their initiative is 1 lower than their character who summoned them..?


It’s not 1 lower but directly before the summoning player (makes a difference when there is a tie with initiative)
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Ryan Strong
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Jack Spirio wrote:
JeffHofOpt wrote:
Ze_Azrael wrote:
Only thing I can think of for us was summons not acting the turn they're summoned.

But I recently read a reddit thread where a group finished the main storyline without realizing monsters drop coins on death.


Wait... I thought summons don't act on the turn they are summoned because their initiative is 1 lower than their character who summoned them..?


It’s not 1 lower but directly before the summoning player (makes a difference when there is a tie with initiative)


Wait! Clarification Please. Can summons act on the turn they were summoned?!
 
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Mad Mullet
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jackquimby wrote:
Jack Spirio wrote:
JeffHofOpt wrote:
Ze_Azrael wrote:
Only thing I can think of for us was summons not acting the turn they're summoned.

But I recently read a reddit thread where a group finished the main storyline without realizing monsters drop coins on death.


Wait... I thought summons don't act on the turn they are summoned because their initiative is 1 lower than their character who summoned them..?


It’s not 1 lower but directly before the summoning player (makes a difference when there is a tie with initiative)


Wait! Clarification Please. Can summons act on the turn they were summoned?!


No.
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Jay Johnson
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jackquimby wrote:
Jack Spirio wrote:
JeffHofOpt wrote:
Ze_Azrael wrote:
Only thing I can think of for us was summons not acting the turn they're summoned.

But I recently read a reddit thread where a group finished the main storyline without realizing monsters drop coins on death.


Wait... I thought summons don't act on the turn they are summoned because their initiative is 1 lower than their character who summoned them..?


It’s not 1 lower but directly before the summoning player (makes a difference when there is a tie with initiative)


Wait! Clarification Please. Can summons act on the turn they were summoned?!

The rule book clearly states that they cannot.
p. 26 wrote:
Summoned figures never take a turn in the round they are summoned.

Actually, to be specific, they do not "take a turn", but they could be granted an action if a character used an action to grant them such (for instance, Mindthief's "Possession")

But as Jack correctly points out, summoned allies have the same initiative value as their summoner, but they always take their turn just prior to that of their summoner (similar to how Elite Monster #1 and Elite Monster #2 of the same monster group will both have the same initiative value, but #1 would always take their turn prior to #2)
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Jay Johnson
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And it should be noted that the above rules only apply to allies summoned by the characters.

Monsters can summon other monsters, (and those summoned monsters would not take a turn during the round that they are summoned either), but after that round, those summoned monsters will act just like any other monster of that group (with the exception that they will not drop a money token when they die), and they have no further ties with the monster who summoned them.
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B C
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When adding Curses to an Attack Modifier deck, I was reshuffling the entire deck (including Attack Modifier cards that had already been played). This is incorrect as you should only shuffle Curses into the REMAINING Attack Modifier deck. This has the effect of diluting the Curse cards in the deck. As monsters were more likely to get Curses than the characters in my solo game, it was making the game somewhat harder.
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Jay Johnson
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vitus979 wrote:
When adding Curses to an Attack Modifier deck, I was reshuffling the entire deck (including Attack Modifier cards that had already been played). This is incorrect as you should only shuffle Curses into the REMAINING Attack Modifier deck. This has the effect of diluting the Curse cards in the deck. As monsters were more likely to get Curses than the characters in my solo game, it was making the game somewhat harder.
Blesses are supposed to be added in the same manner
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Ze Azrael
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JeffHofOpt wrote:
Ze_Azrael wrote:
Only thing I can think of for us was summons not acting the turn they're summoned.

But I recently read a reddit thread where a group finished the main storyline without realizing monsters drop coins on death.


Wait... I thought summons don't act on the turn they are summoned because their initiative is 1 lower than their character who summoned them..?

Sorry for causing this confusion. What I tried to say was that we got X rule wrong, with X being "summons don't act the turn they're summoned".

To add to the already mentioned rules:
- Spawned monsters do act on the round they're spawned (just be careful when they spawn at the end of round. Since it's already the end of the round, they can't get a turn).
- For allied summons, they act in the order they were summoned in. So if the Mindthief summons a Rat Swarm in the first room, then a Rat King in the second room, then long rests, both summons and the Mindthief have initiative 99 and would act Rat Swarm > Rat King > Mindthief
 
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Jack Spirio
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But why would that make the game harder?
 
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