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The Resistance: Avalon» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Avalon Strategy Deep Dive rss

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Matthew Robinson
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Thought people might find this interesting. We did a 90 minute strategy deep dive on Avalon on the Game Brain Podcast this week.

Our group has played Avalon over 300 times, it's probably our most played game. Would love to know if other players agree or disagree with our strategy thoughts.

http://gamebrainpod.com/listen-subscribe/
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Jeffrey
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I just got to the part where someone said that Mordred should wave their arms during the night phase to let the other bad guys know who they are. I think any communication of roles outside of what the script calls for is disallowed. Imagine if Percival could wave at Merlin.

Also, interesting to hear you all say that you leave everything but Merlin, Percival, Mordred, and (I assume) Assassin in the box. Everyone I play with defaults to Merlin, Percival, Morgana, and Assassin.
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Trey Alsup
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LocutusZero wrote:
Imagine if Percival could wave at Merlin.


When would this happen exactly? Percival IS permitted to wave at Merlin. This is will get Merlin assassinated.
 
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Jeffrey
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treyalsup wrote:
LocutusZero wrote:
Imagine if Percival could wave at Merlin.


When would this happen exactly? Percival IS permitted to wave at Merlin. This is will get Merlin assassinated.
I’m talking about when only Merlin’s eyes are open.
 
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Thomas Donnelly
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The rules say nothing about this subject specifically. But clearly the example of "what if Percival waves" is...not great. The whole eyes open/eyes closed dynamic is specifically to generate information only for a few, and to eliminate communication. HOWEVER, the minions of Mordred do open their eyes to recognize each other. i.e. that is a time when limited communication is allowed. An eyebrow raise is all it takes.

Certainly there's no rule in the game or on BGG that precludes such communication, but neither is there a rule specifically allowing it, so it is open to interpretation.

To us, allowing the minions to know who Mordred is makes for a more nuanced, more tactical game, although a harder game for the blue players. And we're all about the more tactical option.

I think the Game Brain pod episode has maybe 5 minutes that deal with Mordred being known to the other evil players, so if you prefer to play without this nuance, by all means ignore that bit...and thanks for listening!
 
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Jeffrey
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thomasdean007 wrote:
The rules say nothing about this subject specifically. But clearly the example of "what if Percival waves" is...not great. The whole eyes open/eyes closed dynamic is specifically to generate information only for a few, and to eliminate communication. HOWEVER, the minions of Mordred do open their eyes to recognize each other. i.e. that is a time when limited communication is allowed. An eyebrow raise is all it takes.

Certainly there's no rule in the game or on BGG that precludes such communication, but neither is there a rule specifically allowing it, so it is open to interpretation.

To us, allowing the minions to know who Mordred is makes for a more nuanced, more tactical game, although a harder game for the blue players. And we're all about the more tactical option.

I think the Game Brain pod episode has maybe 5 minutes that deal with Mordred being known to the other evil players, so if you prefer to play without this nuance, by all means ignore that bit...and thanks for listening!
FWIW, the play-by-forum games here on BGG don’t allow for any night-time communication (a mod messages the spies and tells them who the other spies are). But as long as I knew ahead of time about your conventions of whats allowed and what’s not during the night phase, I wouldn’t mind trying it out. I actually don’t think I’ve played a game with Mordred, but I know I would have liked to know who Morgana is when I’ve been a spy.

Do y’all allow for spies to try to communicate who will throw in a fail if on a mission with another spy? During the night one person could mouth “I’ll fail” or something like that.
 
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Matthew Robinson
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LocutusZero wrote:
thomasdean007 wrote:
The rules say nothing about this subject specifically. But clearly the example of "what if Percival waves" is...not great. The whole eyes open/eyes closed dynamic is specifically to generate information only for a few, and to eliminate communication. HOWEVER, the minions of Mordred do open their eyes to recognize each other. i.e. that is a time when limited communication is allowed. An eyebrow raise is all it takes.

Certainly there's no rule in the game or on BGG that precludes such communication, but neither is there a rule specifically allowing it, so it is open to interpretation.

To us, allowing the minions to know who Mordred is makes for a more nuanced, more tactical game, although a harder game for the blue players. And we're all about the more tactical option.

I think the Game Brain pod episode has maybe 5 minutes that deal with Mordred being known to the other evil players, so if you prefer to play without this nuance, by all means ignore that bit...and thanks for listening!
FWIW, the play-by-forum games here on BGG don’t allow for any night-time communication (a mod messages the spies and tells them who the other spies are). But as long as I knew ahead of time about your conventions of whats allowed and what’s not during the night phase, I wouldn’t mind trying it out. I actually don’t think I’ve played a game with Mordred, but I know I would have liked to know who Morgana is when I’ve been a spy.

Do y’all allow for spies to try to communicate who will throw in a fail if on a mission with another spy? During the night one person could mouth “I’ll fail” or something like that.


We allow for any "above table" communication that risks getting caught by the other team. No "below table" communication (kicking legs, texting etc). If you're gonna try to get some information across, there has to be a risk that you'll get caught.
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David St. Hubbins
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thomasdean007 wrote:
The rules say nothing about this subject specifically. But clearly the example of "what if Percival waves" is...not great. The whole eyes open/eyes closed dynamic is specifically to generate information only for a few, and to eliminate communication. HOWEVER, the minions of Mordred do open their eyes to recognize each other. i.e. that is a time when limited communication is allowed. An eyebrow raise is all it takes.

Certainly there's no rule in the game or on BGG that precludes such communication, but neither is there a rule specifically allowing it, so it is open to interpretation.

To us, allowing the minions to know who Mordred is makes for a more nuanced, more tactical game, although a harder game for the blue players. And we're all about the more tactical option.

I think the Game Brain pod episode has maybe 5 minutes that deal with Mordred being known to the other evil players, so if you prefer to play without this nuance, by all means ignore that bit...and thanks for listening!
If you want to play a variant, that is certainly a reasonable choice, but I think it is a significant stretch to say the rules are open to interpretation. If Mordred was supposed to stick out his thumb, the rules would tell him to stick out his thumb.
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PenumbraPenguin
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thomasdean007 wrote:
Certainly there's no rule in the game or on BGG that precludes such communication, but neither is there a rule specifically allowing it, so it is open to interpretation.


Board game rules typically tell you what you are allowed to do, not what you're not allowed to do. The rules don't say that loyal servants of Arthur can't hold up their smartphones and take photos to see whose eyes are open, but this is not allowed.

If you like the minions knowing who Mordred or Morgana are, then that sounds like a perfectly reasonable variant, but I think most people would agree that it's definitely not what the original rules imply.
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Eugene Wong
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This game was highly designed, so that means the night script tells you what you can communicate. Everything not mentioned is not allowed. This is why you have the script telling loyalists to stick up their thumbs, with no mention of Percy singling himself out

Percy not specifically being known makes a difference, because it makes it harder for Merlin to let Percy specifically pretend to be Merlin. Anybody pretending to be Merlin is great, but since Percy knows whom Morgana likely is, he can really steam roll over the spies, if he sorts out the 2.

For quite some time now, I have come to believe that Percy is the true leader of the team in a meta sense. Once he sees how the 2 candidates relate to other players, he can guide the team via voting at the right time. If he outs himself as Percy, he can pretend that another player is Merlin.
 
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Eugene Wong
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By the way, Matthew and all, I invite you all to play in the PBF, where Don E., the designer, played. The way that we play is the way, that he intended it. That's a bold claim, but I don't recall him making any comment either way, and yet it is played quite strictly, unless it is a variant.

###

By the way, I also don't usually play with Mordred. I usually prefer Morgana to give Percy a challenge.
 
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eugenetswong wrote:
By the way, I also don't usually play with Mordred. I usually prefer Morgana to give Percy a challenge.

You can have both and give Mordred the assassin role.
 
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a1bert wrote:
eugenetswong wrote:
By the way, I also don't usually play with Mordred. I usually prefer Morgana to give Percy a challenge.

You can have both and give Mordred the assassin role.
Yeah, we usually use in 5p roles: Merlin, Morgana, Percival, Mordred as Assassin and plain knight.
 
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Eugene Wong
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a1bert wrote:
eugenetswong wrote:
By the way, I also don't usually play with Mordred. I usually prefer Morgana to give Percy a challenge.

You can have both and give Mordred the assassin role.

Yeah. I realize that.
 
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Jonas Bergenudd
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Loved the episode! Many insightful comments about the game...
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