aiton
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Scientists: New Device Appears to Defy the Laws of Thermodynamics
https://futurism.com/device-defy-laws-thermodynamics


I love my microwave oven, but I have always also wanted something that would make things cold just as fast. Will this do that, I wonder?
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Mike K
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John James
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aiton wrote:
I love my microwave oven, but I have always also wanted something that would make things cold just as fast. Will this do that, I wonder?

They've had those as long as normal microwaves, there's just not enough of a market to make them much.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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aiton wrote:
Scientists: New Device Appears to Defy the Laws of Thermodynamics
https://futurism.com/device-defy-laws-thermodynamics


From the article "it technically adhered to the laws of physics".

Or interpreted "it adheres to the laws of physics". So the headline is simply inaccurate clickbait.
 
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Dearlove wrote:
[q="aiton"]

From the article "it technically adhered to the laws of physics".


If it didn't then it would prove the necessity for revising "the laws of physics" as they had just been falsified.
(well, that's the principle anyhow)
In practice it would start a set of massive research projects to either show it did not or alternatively revise the laws.
I would have been in the very skeptical camp as I have a philosophy I call TANSTAAFL physics … if it looks like you can get something for nothing then you are mistaken.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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andyholt wrote:
[q="Dearlove"]From the article "it technically adhered to the laws of physics"

If it didn't then it would prove the necessity for revising "the laws of physics" as they had just been falsified.
(well, that's the principle anyhow)
In practice it would start a set of massive research projects to either show it did not or alternatively revise the laws.
I would have been in the very skeptical camp as I have a philosophy I call TANSTAAFL physics … if it looks like you can get something for nothing then you are mistaken.


Roger Penrose doesn't classify the second Law of Thermodynamics as a law of physics, but something even more fundamental. It's essentially a consequence of time flows forwards and statistics. First Law violation? Unlikely but not inconceivable. Second Law violation? Not happening.
 
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The article indicates that a small electric current had to be applied. There is the energy cost. They don't say how large a current, but if the application was to be used on a large scale, the current required might be astronomically expensive (for all we know, again, there is limited information in the article). And if I remember my electrical theory correctly, a changing magnetic field can only be generated by a changing current (or vice versa), meaning alternating current. The source of current is likely not a DC current. The article would have to expound much further than it has, to determine if or when the process may be viable on a larger scale. Nonetheless, interesting read.
 
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Matt
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My guess is that the apparent violation depends on where you draw the bounding box around the "isolated system."

And, of course, they have word "appears" in the headline. ("Miss Cleo appears to read caller's mind!")
 
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Erik Henry
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Here's the paper:

Heat flowing from cold to hot without external intervention by using a “thermal inductor”

A highly oversimplified analogy would be dropping an object from a high height. If you drop a watermelon it falls, smashes into the ground, and stops. If, though, you find an appropriate object -- say a rubber ball -- it will actually bounce upward after hitting the ground, with its amplitude slowly decaying. If you just look at the part where it's bouncing upward, you might say it "appears" to break the laws of physics, even though it clearly doesn't.

A closer analogy would be if the ball was falling and you reversed the direction of gravity. For a short amount of time the ball would continue moving in the now "wrong" direction.

What they seemed to do (I didn't read real closely) is find a way for the direction of the driving force for heat flow to oscillate for a while after power was removed. Then, correspondingly, you'd get instances of heat flow in the "wrong" direction after it switched because of flow inertia.

Whether you could actually get something practical out of that -- I have no idea.


Edit: Somewhat ninja'ed by Matt
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Julius Waller
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It sounds like a variant on Maxwell's Demon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_demon
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