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Hearts and Minds: Vietnam 1965-1975» Forums » Rules

Subject: Card Questions rss

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Joel Toppen
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Regarding card #5 (blue) "Search & Destroy": Should this be a Response card? I ask only because it says to "Draw a card" as part of its effect and because it has no RP cost.

Regarding card #10 (black) "Bring Smoke": Can artillery target a province containing face-down VC? Seems like a good way to clobber some otherwise tough to pin-and-kill VC units.

Thanks!

-Joel
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Ralph Shelton
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joel_m_toppen wrote:
Regarding card #5 (blue) "Search & Destroy": Should this be a Response card? I ask only because it says to "Draw a card" as part of its effect and because it has no RP cost.

Regarding card #10 (black) "Bring Smoke": Can artillery target a province containing face-down VC? Seems like a good way to clobber some otherwise tough to pin-and-kill VC units. ;)

Thanks!

-Joel
Joel, which version of the game do you have? The 2nd edition has a big "Response" on blue card #5.

That is an interesting question about black card #10, to which I do not know the answer.

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Stan Hilinski
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Yes and yes.

If you kill a hidden VC, just return it to the pool unrevealed. It’s always the last to kill, so killing one is rare.
 
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John Poniske
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HI JOEL,

Regarding card #5 (blue) "Search & Destroy": Should this be a Response card? I ask only because it says to "Draw a card" as part of its effect and because it has no RP cost.
YES

Regarding card #10 (black) "Bring Smoke": Can artillery target a province containing face-down VC? Seems like a good way to clobber some otherwise tough to pin-and-kill VC units.
NO
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Joel Toppen
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Ralph, I have 3rd edition.

John, thanks! Looks like this is a bit of errata on "Search & Destroy." My copy does not have the "RESPONSE" label.

I got mixed answers from Stan and John regarding "Bring Smoke." Let me clarify my question: A province contains only ONE piece and it is a face-down VC. Can I use "Bring Smoke" to kill it?

Thanks!

-Joel
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Stan Hilinski
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joel_m_toppen wrote:
Ralph, I have 3rd edition.

John, thanks! Looks like this is a bit of errata on "Search & Destroy." My copy does not have the "RESPONSE" label.

I got mixed answers from Stan and John regarding "Bring Smoke." Let me clarify my question: A province contains only ONE piece and it is a face-down VC. Can I use "Bring Smoke" to kill it?

Thanks!

-Joel

VC are units. Nothing in the rules exempts them from attacks. If you read the VC section, it tells you how to handle concealed VC when attacked and destroyed, which reinforces that yes, you can attack them.
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John Poniske
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Stan and I have a difference of opinion here. I stand by my answer. It was always my intention that VC were invisible, worked close to home and only congregated for specific missions then melted back into the countryside villages. Therefore, I will play the game so that an unrevealed VC unit cannot be targeted. At the same time I will accede to Stan as he did an excellent job developing the game. Still, you should also know where I am coming from as the designer.
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Rob Winslow
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What would the official answer be? I like John's answer, but, if I'm playing, which way do the official rules' support point?

Also, is a FAQ being compiled? I just got the game (looks great!) and hope to play soon. Want to be sure I'm up-to-date with any errata/clarifications.

Thanks!
 
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Rob Winslow
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And these questions/answers should probably go to the entry for the 3rd edition by Compass, no?
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AF Davis
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I'm awaiting for the arrival of H&M, hopefully this week, but I'm a little dismayed at the possibility that a third edition might require errata for rules and/or components. This is one of the reasons why I waited for the third edition over ordering the second edition some time ago.
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Joel Toppen
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Oops! I'm sorry guys, i meant to post this on the 3rd edition entry. Sorry!

I like John's answer as it reflects design intent. The "Bring Smoke" event becomes too powerful if it can be used to kill VC in my opinion.

-Joel
 
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John Poniske
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Let me be perfectly clear. Follow the rules. Do as Stan says. He is and will be the final arbiter as the original developer. I should have said this to start. I was wrong to confuse the issue.
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Stan Hilinski
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Sometimes John and I disagree on the rules. I think John rules from his heart and his experience. He is a Vietnam vet, after all, whereas by the time I got out of college (72), the war was pretty much over, and I immediately went on to grad school. So I rule as a cold-hearted-SOB judge who observes the rules as law, and I loathe exceptions, which I consider grit in a smooth-running engine.

The rules treat face-down VC as units, so they enjoy and suffer the same as their brother and sister units, and if they have something special, the rules spells that out. For example, when you bomb a province, you count all units there, and that includes face-down VC. If a card wanted you to exclude VC as unit, then it would have specifically said so.

Now, of course, you can make an exception for this card, but it's grit, in my opinion, and here's what happens next:
o We have to post an errata for that card.
o Or we have to say that sometimes face-down VC are not units. Then we get a flood of emails: "what about this case?"; "what about that case?"; and as Don Greenwood once told me his most often asked question: "did you really mean it then when you said..."

But the big question I ask myself in a time like this, is putting in this exception really worth it? Do I want to change the rules for ONE card, which might kill off ONE VC at most once per game?
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