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Subject: Big List of Rules Questions and Clarifications rss

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Iain Reid
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Our group is playing through Middara and loving it! We have just completed chapter 2. We've compiled a list of rules queries and things we think should exist as clarifications in the rules, all from stuff we've encountered so far. I'm just going to post them all in a numbered megalist below. We've been using the latest errata (1.06).

Rule Book
Movement and Additional SP:
(Q01): The text here says “After moving up to their Movement Value, the Adventurer may then spend SP… [for additional movement]”. We are assuming that this should say “While moving up to their Movement Value, the Adventure may then spend SP… [for additional movement]". Read as written, the text suggests you cannot combine the movement points from the initial move with the additional move. For example, if your first and last square costs 1 movement point and intermediate squares cost 2 movement points, with (6+4)=10 movement points you could move (1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1) for a total of 6 squares. But if you had to finish your initial move first, you would only move (1, 2, 2) + (2, 1) for a total of 5 squares.

Flanking: Page 50 needs more detail on flanking, and what “opposite sides of a target” means. This is discussed in this thread, but our understanding is specifically:
(Q02): Both the ally initiating the attack and the ally flanking need to be adjacent to the target.
(Q03): There must be a straight orthogonal or diagonal line covering all squares for both the attacker, the target, and the flanker. When all creatures occupy one square (ie, “medium” creatures), this line will be 3 squares long.
(Q03b): Both the attacker and flanker, must be "capable of taking actions", eg, not Paralysed. (This doesn't mean they need to have SP remaining). Note that the attacker won't actually be able to initiate the attack without this, so this really only applies to the flanker.
(Q04): Each large-base creature (2x2) involved in the flank (as either attacker, target, or flanker) means this line needs to be an additional square long.
(Q05): Because REACH counts as initiating an attack from an intermediate square, an attacker with REACH can flank from one square away, if she is attacking. However figures with REACH will not provide a flank from one square away.


Currents:
(Q06): Loot tokens on Currents move at the “beginning of every round”. Does this include the first round? Ie, loot tokens that are drawn on the map will never actually be where they are placed, as they will move before anyone gets ago?
(Q07): If you are swept by a strong current (2 spaces) beyond the edge of the current, do you move the full 2 squares or just 1? (We assume 2).
(Q08): If you are swept from one current into a different current (eg, from a strong current into a weaker current), does the second current also move you (we assume not).

Flight:
(Q09): Is a figure occupying the squares they fly over? We are assuming yes, to distinguish FLIGHT from WARP. Specifically this means they trigger Objectives, Totems, and Line of Sight, SOI to creatures when they pass through squares (though they don’t trigger Bulb Tokens as they require Break Attacks).
(Q10):What happens if an effect, eg, from an Objective or a Totem causes a flying creature to end it’s turn but it is currently on a square occupied by another figure? We are assuming it is moved to an adjacent square of the flying creature’s choice. What happens if the flying creature is currently occupying dangerous terrain? We assume it is defeated. (Moral = don't trigger Totems + Objectives while moving over dangerous terrain, just in case).
(Q10b): The fact that Flight does not allow passing of Obstructing Terrain should be emphasized in bold in the manual.

Initiative Cards:
(Q11): We are assuming that creatures that are killed do not have their initiative cards removed from the initiative track. This means that if a new pack of those creatures spawns later in the scenario (as is common with Cave Sickles), they will not roll the Empower dice to see where their initiative card spawns, instead using the old positioning. This is probably worth clarifying.

Reach:
(Q12): The fact that Reach does not increase your range for making Break Attacks, nor your range for providing a flank for allies should be added as clarification under Reach.
(Q13): Can you attack through allies using reach, (at -1 to hit, as per a ranged attack)? We are assuming yes, but it should be clarified.
(Q14): Assuming you can, the fact that specifically you cannot flank when you are doing this, even if you could flank if the ally wasn’t there, seems a strange non-sequitur rule. (Removing the word “Empty” from the "Empty spaces that figures can attack through [can flank]" would change this).

Empowering Spells:
(Q15): It is worth clarifying that the extra bonus to a spell power only comes from books on the Empower dice, ie, books on the main Casting dice do not count, even if the spell is empowered. The errata helps here, but this probably still needs to be explicit.

Summoning:
(Q16): What happens if Summons (or other Commands, such as NPCs) obtain loot, such as Monster Loot or opening a chest (via an Encounter Action)? We are assuming the equipment is placed in the Party Stash.
(Q16b): Page 56 refers to the “Command Side” of enemies. Presuambly they used to have the AI on one side and the Command on the other – but this is no longer the case.


Conduction Summoning:
(Q17): Does the adventurer change back to their normal form at the end of the encounter, or will they start the next encounter in CONDUIT form? Assuming they are forced to change back, how does this interact with Utility Cores? (ie, does the change happen before or after you try to use the Utility Core?).
(Q18): The rules say that “only the CONDUIT Command Combatant card may be used when taking Actions…” presumably to mean you cannot Attack with your weapons. What about Moving, Reequiping or Encounter actions? We assume you can at least move.
(Q19): How do Skill Tests work when in Conduit form? We assume it is the same as monsters, ie, black dice, no skull. Does this mean Conduits are also limited to jumping over 2 squares maximum or can they jump further?

Skill Tests outside of Encounters:
(Q20): If you have to make a Skill Test outside of encounters, can you use abilities, equipment, disciplines etc to help boost this? Presumably any “Per Encounter” abilities are not usable. What about the Bottled Blessing or Intervention tokens? What about Sidra Busson’s PASSIVE?


Equipment
Short Swords:
(Q21): These allow a diagonal movement. Presumably this provokes break attacks. Does it also allow diagonal movement if the two orthogonal squares are occupied with monsters, and/or have Dangerous Terrain. We have been assuming so.

The Boneshaker:
(Q22): What happens if this creates Dangerous Terrain, and then a further Totem or Diagram etc, causes a monster to spawn on the now Dangerous Terrain? We are assuming the monster dies in this case.


Heroes
Godswill
(Q23): Does Godswill have an extra 2 health? It is printed on his card, but not listed as an ability like Rook.
Antoinette
(Q24): Antoinette Jeong’s, icon for Presence looks a bit weird. Presumably this is just older art.


Monsters
Boss Creatures and Sizes:
(Q25): There should be somewhere indicating what size of base the STANDUP figures use. We spent some time trying to work out what Boss1 and Boss2 used, before realizing it is (we are assuming), keyed to the size of the red markings on the bottom of the standee.

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Boss1 = Whopper
Boss2 = The Warden


Gevaudan’s AI:
(Q25b): The third step should have clarification text (eg, in italics), indicating that the “farthest opponent” could be the same one as the first attack if no-one else is in range, meaning it won’t move twice and will instead move once and make two attacks. It isn’t just a case of it being clear in the rules, as this step seems to bring up the question of “what is the intent here?”, which is less clear.

Water Loa / Merk Hounds and Currents:
(Q25c): We are assuming that Water Loa and Merk Hounds are still affected by Currents as their text (“the [Creature] is not affected by Water terrain”) is distinctly different from the Sea Witch Fetish (“ignore the negative effects of Water Terrain & Currents”). It probably requires clarification on the Water Loa and Merk Hound cards.

Merk Hound and Targetting:
(Q25): The Merk Hound can “only be targeted by adjacent enemies” but targeting is not defined. There are several things that could count here for “targeting”. We are assuming 1,2,3,4, all count but 5, 6 and 7 do not.
-1- Selecting the creature as the target of an attack (ranged or melee)
-2- Selecting the creature as the target of a multi-target attack (ranged or melee), such as “Down the Masses”
-3- Selecting the creature as the target of a spell (such as Gore Shot)
-4- Selecting the creature as the target of an effect (either positive or negative), including THROW (such as Mend, Fortune Telling, Throwing Knives)
-5- Selecting the creature as the target of an AOE attack (such as a D&D Fireball type effect, not sure any exist yet)
-6- Selecting the creature with an attack or spell from a side-effect of something else (such as Bring The Shadows)
-7- Affecting the creature as the result of a side-effect of another ability (such as Aura of Hate, or the secondary effect of a Magic Frag)

Earth Loa:
(Q26): His first ability should probably trigger if “there is another ally”. As written, when he is alone, he triggers the AI step, but then does nothing with it, as the Barrier is only cast on “another ally”.


Zulfiqar:
(Q27): What does “Zulfiqar may immediately end all Actions” mean with regard to monsters? Does it mean it ends the current action (eg the attack on Zulfiqar), and associated move if applicable, (eg, if the attack was a Break Attack Counter), or also that it ends all actions the monster might make on the rest of its turn (such as further attacks or moves)? As it is different to Paralyse, does it mean the monster can still use abilities, such as HEAL or SWAP? This came up specifically in response to the second AI step of Boss3 - it would be good to understand how Zulfiqar works with that.

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Boss3 = Melody



Encounters

Retracing Their Steps:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
(Q28): What happens if there are no “unoccupied Normal Terrain spaces adjacent to you”. Presumably the Animate spawns in the nearest unoccupied Normal Terrain space. What happens to his immediate attack in this instance? Presumably it fails.


Loa Alter:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
(Q29): Assuming Water Loa are affected by Currents, the Water Loa in the SW of the map will instantly die at the end of her first turn, possibly before the adventurers even act. Given that this scenario is about not hurting the Loa, this seems strange. Likewise the other Loa kills herself in 3 turns if not interacted with.
(Q30): There are 4 minor red-text loot boxes, but no way for loot to spawn. Should there be a random loot on the map?


Boss Fight 'Boss3':
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Boss3=Melody
(Q31): As written, the Eyes of Magdalene cannot be targeted via spells and effects (eg, Gore Shot, Throwing Knives), even if occupying their space. Is that the intention? Does an attacker with REACH also have to occupy their space?


Padric, Weaponsmith at Dragon Arms (variety of adventurers):
Spoiler (click to reveal)
(Q32): As Padric “follows the rules of an Adventurer”, does this mean he can be equipped with Armor, Cores, Relics, Consumables etc via the ReEquip action? We are assuming not. If he can, he becomes very powerful with increased defense.


A Team Split Apart:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
(Q33): The Blue Totem says “move the Cave Sickle initiative card up 1 space”. Should this be both Cave Sickle initiative cards, as there are two.


More Monsters, More Problems:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
(Q34): Is the intention that Remi triggers the Blue Objective even if flying over it and if there is a Water Loa on it


Boss Fight: 'Boss4':
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Boss4 = Aisling
(Q35): Presumably you draw Combatant Loot if Aisling and Nightingale kill monsters (as per the errata rules)? As with Padric, presumably any drawn equipment cards go to the Party Stash (rather than to Nightingale, affecting her stats).
(Q36): If Aisling is targeting monsters with the same initiative card (eg, Fragors or Cave Sickles), how does she pick which monster to target? We went with using monster number, targeting the lowest number first.
(Q37):Aisling’s Skull effects often refer to “ending her turn”, but the Skull effects will trigger during her Skirmisher Passive. Presumably references to “ending her turn” are just ignored in such instances.



Achievements:
(Q38): Many of the encounters feature achievements, which are usually listed as "If you [do something crazy] then [read this text and get some loot]". Presumably the intention is that only the first person to do the crazy thing gets the reward, and if future adventurers also do the crazy thing, they don't get the reward also. This should probably be written down somewhere, either in the encounter book, main rules, or next to each achievement. (eg "the FIRST adventurer to do [crazy thing]..." etc.


That's all for now. No doubt I'll be back with more questions in future chapters.


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Quentin Arguillere
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I have the answer for question 16 :
Quote:
(Q16): What happens if Summons (or other Commands, such as NPCs) obtain loot, such as Monster Loot or opening a chest (via an Encounter Action)? We are assuming the equipment is placed in the Party Stash.


Rulebook P69 : "When a LOYAL ESPER Gains any Item, the Adventurer who summoned them Gains the Item instead. "
 
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Iain Reid
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Good spot. What about Padric?
 
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Ron Ahedana
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Quote:
A Command Combatant has all the rules to use their corresponding
figure printed on their card. Because of this, Command Combatants
do not equip Items or learn Disciplines.


(page 56 discusses the difference between Adventurers and Command Combatants)

Also, while I'm lacking the time to go over your entire list, I did glance at Q26 and happen to remember the answer here:

Quote:
Very rarely, an Al Step will have a true condition but
the instructions listed beneath the true condition cannot be performed.
If none of the instructions listed beneath a true condition can be
performed, players should treat that condition as false.


(page 58 lists a couple of important notes about an Intelligent Combatant's conditions)
 
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Iain Reid
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Biaxident wrote:
Quote:
A Command Combatant has all the rules to use their corresponding
figure printed on their card. Because of this, Command Combatants
do not equip Items or learn Disciplines.


(page 56 discusses the difference between Adventurers and Command Combatants)

Also, while I'm lacking the time to go over your entire list, I did glance at Q26 and happen to remember the answer here:

Quote:
Very rarely, an Al Step will have a true condition but
the instructions listed beneath the true condition cannot be performed.
If none of the instructions listed beneath a true condition can be
performed, players should treat that condition as false.


(page 58 lists a couple of important notes about an Intelligent Combatant's conditions)


For Q32, no problem with Command Combatants (eg, Eliphie) not being able to take equipment, but Padric is listed in the adventures he appears in as follows:

"Padric follows the rules of an Adventurer even though he uses a Command Combatant card".

So the question is - what does that mean? Can Padric take equipment? If so, can he use the attack action and/or abilities of that equipment? Does Defense on Cores stack with his already mighty stats? And if not, then what does "follows the rules of an Adventurer" mean, as there isn't much difference between Adventurers and Command Combatants. Does he gain XP? (he can later join the party with fixed XP - is that increased if you earned any with him "following the rules of an Adventurer"). Etc...


My guess is that none of the above is possible, and that Padric is in fact treated exactly the same as all other Command Combatants (with the possible minor exception that equipment he picks up via combatant loot cards moves to the party stash rather than his summoner, as he has no summoner). Perhaps there were earlier drafts of the rules in which Command Combatants had further restrictions and this "following the rules of an Adventurer" was placed to avoid those restrictions? I'm not sure.

--

For Q26, this is really just a typo correction. The fact that the Earth Loa's second step triggers and does nothing (or as you point out, doesn't trigger because of this) isn't an issue. Earth Loas generally always move, and don't affect Urgency. It's just that the triggering step should probably match the casting step.

 
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Brooklynn Lundberg
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I feel like you haven't had all these actually occur during a single play through of the story, but that doesn't make the questions any less legitimate. Hell, maybe you did and your group is just min-maxers gifted to me from the realms of Paizo themselves. In either case, the majority of your questions haven't come up in over hundreds of sessions we've ran or played. In either case, I'll go through the list and make some magic happen.

Okay... here we go.

Rulebook
Q1: The intent is that you can spend the SP at anytime to add more MP to your total pool of MP. You're suggestion is more 'technically' correct. Good esoteric find.


Flanking: We'll be working amongst ourselves to clarify these on the reprint. The discussion in the linked thread is very specific with pictures. I'll make sure to include something like this in the reprint. Anyway, onto the questions.
Q2: Yes, unless they are using Reach. Then the one using Reach doesn't need to be adjacent.

Q3: I think the best way to wrap your head around this is with the diagrams in the linked thread. But yes.

Q3b: Yes, they must not be paralyzed or under an effect that would prevent them from making an Attack. We will clarify this as well. You're thread got us really thinking about some of these sticky specifics. Honestly, most groups haven't even brought it up and done it all correct... but then there are some specific encounters that makes it very important to know.

Q4: Yes. We'll be including something like this in the rulebook for ease instead of having to make our flanking section huge.

Q5: Yes.

Currents
Q6: Good question. No. The intent is that it happens after the first. Really, we should just update these encounters to move Loot at the end of every round to remove ambiguity.

Q7: Whoah. good question. Now I wanna ask some playtesters what they did. In either case, RAW would be 2. However, if you move over Dangerous terrain for any reason you'd still be defeated.

Q8: No. Your assumption is correct.

Flight
Q9: Yes.

10: Both would the intent. Dangerous terrain is an easy assumption with the rules as written. However, we do specify that a figure that cannot be placed for whatever reason is placed in the closest possible legal space. I think with a single word or two we could make this clear for Adventurers too.

10b: I'll bounce this off our other designers and add it to our notes.

Initiative Cards
11: We do remove them from the Track when defeated. Meaning that you will roll again when adding them. I'll make sure that this is in the rulebook. ON that note, please check out our variant rule for spawning monsters in the new rule book. It adds difficulty and removes the dice rolling.

Reach
12: I'll bounce this off our other designers and add it to our notes. There is a certain finesse to rulebooks and we don't want to bloat it with repeated information. We established that you can only make break attacks when a figure moves out of an adjacent square. There is no reason to assume that Reach increases your Break Attack range or Ranged weapons for that matter.

13: Yes. This is the other end of the issue. The rule book says you can attack through allies at a -1, so their is no reason to assume that Reach means you cant. Just like ranged weapons. Regardless, i'll bounce it off the others to see what they think and how they interpreted what is already written... Specifically our current fresh playtest group.

14: This is a good suggestion. The intent has nothing to do with the space being empty, the suggestion to remove the word empty is a good one and will be added to our notes.

Empowering
15: Agreed. I'll note this down and revisit that section.

Summoning
16: When a LOYAL ESPER Gains any Item, the Adventurer who summoned them Gains the Item instead. Command Cards and Summons work the same in this regard. We'll make sure to specificity that Command Cards interact with Items gained the same way.

16b: Oh yeah, that's old af. I'll check that out and cull it. Great find.

Conduction Summoning
17: Great Question. We're giving this some tlc on the reprint. They change back automatically before the encounter ends and thus gain all their benefits from cores, etc.

18: You're assuming correct. This is also going to be given tlc. You can take standard actions but may not use Disciplines or any abilities on equipped cards.

19: The same as monsters. Also something being added via the an updated rulebook.

Skill Tests outside of Encounters
20: Yes. If you have abilities that affect skill checks they will work. You're not likely to have intervention tokens, but if you did, they could be used. Bottled blessing is okay and can be used. Sidra's passive works. Per encounter abilities can also be used. The per encounter token is removed at the start of encounters or when you're told to restore, so depending on when the skill test occurs you might not be able to use the ability anyway.

Equipment
21: I'm confused by this one. Are you wondering if you can move diagonally through two spaces occupied by monsters or obstructing terrain? If so, then no. The rules even covers this. PG. 44 "When moving or drawing Line of Sight through a diagonal, players choose which of the 2 spaces affect the Line of Sight or movement." If you must chose 1 of two illegal spaces then you cannot make the action.

22: This is a good question. We'll amend the rules for spawning to clarify that if you have to place the figure on a space that is illegal or would otherwise defeat it, you place it on the nearest space instead. In either case, i'll talk among the designers and come up with something.

Heroes
23: No, its a misprint.

24: Yes. Also will be fixed.

Monsters
25: This is correct. Regardless of how big a figure is, the base size determines how many spaces it takes up. I'll talk among our designers to see if this is something we want to do.

25b: The intent is, that when a monster is instructed to make an attack against the X opponent followed by making an attack against the Y opponent there is no other stipulation. X and Y can be the same opponent or different opponents unless otherwise stated. Most HP, Least HP, closest, farthest, most armor, least armor, etc. In the case of the Gevaudan, there is another stipulation (within movement range.) If the furthest opponent within Movement range happens to be the first opponent it attacked then it will attack the same opponent again. Alternatively, if a monster simply said, "Move to be up to reach 2 from the farthest opponent." They would always attempt to move towards the farthest opponent, even if they couldn't make it. I'll bounce this off others to see what they think.

25c: The intent is that they are not affected by currents.

25d: The intent is that a Merk Hound cannot be the target of an Attack or Spell unless you are adjacent.

26: Good find! We'll update this.

27: It's intended to end the current Action. We'll update that.

Encounters
28: It fails as it is out of range. Another good example of clarity that could be added to the spawning rules.

29: They are not effected by currents.

30: There is a random loot on the map. Maybe you missed it? Regardless, we print loot that isn't possible to get multiple times in the book. In these cases though we put some cheeky text in their boxes.

31: Great find on this one! No, it's intended that you can Attack or Cast Spells under the same circumstances.

32: Command cards have their own rules. We'll expand upon them as needed. But no, command cards cannot equip items. But they do follow all rules as adventurers with exceptions. We'll give this some tlc.

33: Both. We'll update that. Initiative cards interactions in the adventure book are getting some tlc on the reprint.

34: Yes. I'll check the fluff a bit for you though.

35: Thats a great question. No, the intent is that if you kill a monster or if they kill themselves you gain the reward. However, we're going to need to take a closer look at this with all the new content we're working on.

36: Good question. From lowest to highest works well. This one is pretty niche. I'll see if we can FAQ some of this.

37: Yes.

Achievements
38: Good suggestion.


Thanks for the challenging feedback. Keep it up! I hope you're liking the game!


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Iain Reid
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OGniku wrote:

Thanks for the challenging feedback. Keep it up! I hope you're liking the game!


Yes, the game is awesome! I wouldn't be here if we didn't all enjoy it. And pretty much all these questions have come up during play (no, really). I think the difference here is that your testers are (presumably) alpha testers, ie, they have direct access to you and the development team. So if someone who is playing says "Hey, are Water Loas affected by Currents?", you or Alex or someone else is on hand to say "No, they aren't", and play quickly resumes". We are all 'blind' players, ie all we have access to are the printed rules. So when the Water Loa text says "Not affected by Water Terrain", and an equipment card says "Not affected by Water Terrain or Currents", we get confused, and have a 20 minute discussion on the difference.

Anyway, your answers cover most things, but there are still a couple of points I'm slightly unclear on.


(Q18): The rules say that “only the CONDUIT Command Combatant card may be used when taking Actions…” presumably to mean you cannot Attack with your weapons. What about Moving, Reequiping or Encounter actions? We assume you can at least move.
(A18): You're assuming correct. This is also going to be given tlc. You can take standard actions but may not use Disciplines or any abilities on equipped cards.


Does this mean you can still use your weapons to make standard attacks when in Conduit form? What about Casting/Conviction upgrades if they are higher than the Conduit? (Obviously Disciplines being turned off means that you are unlikely to use your casting dice).


(Q25d): The Merk Hound can “only be targeted by adjacent enemies” but targeting is not defined. There are several things that could count here for “targeting”.
(A25d): The intent is that a Merk Hound cannot be the target of an Attack or Spell unless you are adjacent.


So this means you can bombard a Merk Hound with Throwing Knives until it dies, even at range, as THROW is not an Attack or a Spell? (There are some awesome Throwing Knives builds out there).



(Q30): (Loa Alter). There are 4 minor red-text loot boxes, but no way for loot to spawn. Should there be a random loot on the map?
(A30): There is a random loot on the map. Maybe you missed it?


There really isn't! Loa Alter, page 50, map has no Loot tokens. Maybe a misprint?


(Q31): (Boss Fight): As written, the Eyes of Magdalene cannot be targeted via spells and effects (eg, Gore Shot, Throwing Knives), even if occupying their space. Is that the intention? Does an attacker with REACH also have to occupy their space?
(A31): Great find on this one! No, it's intended that you can Attack or Cast Spells under the same circumstances.


Does REACH still work from one square away, given that the attack is considered to have come from reached through square?


That's it.


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Richard Mitchell
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iainreid wrote:


(Q30): (Loa Alter). There are 4 minor red-text loot boxes, but no way for loot to spawn. Should there be a random loot on the map?
(A30): There is a random loot on the map. Maybe you missed it?


There really isn't! Loa Alter, page 50, map has no Loot tokens. Maybe a misprint?



I'm going to use spoiler for this one.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The random loot can spawn, via a totem ... but the order of popping the totems has to be right. I Just did this side quest.
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