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Subject: Bernie giving it back to Lindsey Graham on Twitter rss

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Jon Badolato
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And some info that backs him up

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/profiles/SC.html



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BJ
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Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?
 
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Jon Badolato
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the_bj wrote:
Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?


I’m personally ok with any and every felon who is a citizen being allowed to vote regardless of for whom. I think it’s a fundamental right as a citizen regardless of whether one is in prison or not.
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Doremus Jessup
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jonb wrote:
the_bj wrote:
Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?


I’m personally ok with any and every felon who is a citizen being allowed to vote regardless of for whom. I think it’s a fundamental right as a citizen regardless of whether one is in prison or not.


The fact that one finds this and similar attitudes more prevalent in the Democratic Party rather than the GOP seems to indicate the reason for their voting preference.
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Jon Badolato
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Doremus wrote:
jonb wrote:
the_bj wrote:
Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?


I’m personally ok with any and every felon who is a citizen being allowed to vote regardless of for whom. I think it’s a fundamental right as a citizen regardless of whether one is in prison or not.


The fact that one finds this and similar attitudes more prevalent in the Democratic Party rather than the GOP seems to indicate the reason for their voting preference.


Don’t you just love conservatives who supposedly worship the Constitution in all its glory, and yet are often the first ones who try to strip others of their rights because they don’t approve of that particular group or class of people ? Lindsey Graham is one of those. shake
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the_bj wrote:
Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?

I have the same question except for gun control.
 
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Daniel Kearns
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the_bj wrote:
Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?

Felons don’t overwhelmingly vote Democrat.

Felons can’t vote.

WTF are you talking about?
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Bill Cook
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the_bj wrote:
Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?


Data please. Or are you just pulling that out of your butt thin air?

But no matter the justification, Democrats are on the right side and Republicans are on the wrong.
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It's valid--if cynical--to observe that politicians often take positions that are more informed by appealing to their base than by doing what's right.

It's also a great way to deflect when you see politicians you don't like doing the right thing.
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Doremus Jessup
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jonb wrote:
Doremus wrote:
jonb wrote:
the_bj wrote:
Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?


I’m personally ok with any and every felon who is a citizen being allowed to vote regardless of for whom. I think it’s a fundamental right as a citizen regardless of whether one is in prison or not.


The fact that one finds this and similar attitudes more prevalent in the Democratic Party rather than the GOP seems to indicate the reason for their voting preference.


Don’t you just love conservatives who supposedly worship the Constitution in all its glory, and yet are often the first ones who try to strip others of their rights because they don’t approve of that particular group or class of people ? Lindsey Graham is one of those. shake


It is always a case of what person the GOP is speaking in. In the first person "Our rights" the GOP still does worship the Constitution. In is only in the third person "Their rights" does their worship fade.

One only has to witness the GOP fighting tooth and nail to disenfranchise as many released felons as they can, in spite of the state overwhelmingly passing a constitutional amendment giving them back the right last year

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Rachel Simmons
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the_bj wrote:
Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?

Some felons are quite enthusiastic Republicans, like this guy:

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Josh
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the_bj wrote:
Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?


Your causality is backwards.
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Trey Chambers
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the_bj wrote:
Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?


I can tell you with 100% certainty they would not. If 2016 til now convinced me of anything, it is that Republican politicians have not one ounce of honor or principle in their bodies.
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Rich Shipley
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the_bj wrote:
Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?


I'm a Democrat and have helped people vote who did so very poorly in my opinion. I don't think voting from prison is a great idea, but the right should be restored after completing a sentence.

I don't think most criminals tend to vote at all, and have no reason to believe that the few who do would always vote the way I would prefer. Our government gets its legitimacy from the consent of the people. The more people that vote, the better, even if I don't get exactly what I want.
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BJ
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dkearns wrote:
the_bj wrote:
Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?

Felons don’t overwhelmingly vote Democrat.

Felons can’t vote.

WTF are you talking about?


I just assumed this was widely known. There have been a number of studies done throughout the years. Also, states have varying levels of felon voting with some states allowing you to vote while imprisoned and others not giving back the right to vote even after they've completed all of their obligations for incarceration/parole/whatever else.

https://mic.com/articles/78013/most-convicts-vote-democrat-s...

Quote:
If you’ve spent some time in jail, you are much more likely to vote Democrat, according to a new study published in the Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science.

The numbers are actually pretty stark. In the three states the study analyzed – New York, New Mexico, and North Carolina – convicts overwhelmingly identified with the Democratic Party. Almost 62% of convicts in New York are registered Democrats and only 9% are Republican; 52% in New Mexico are Democrat, with just over 10% as Republican; and 54.6% are Democrat in North Carolina, and 10.2% are Republican.


http://as.nyu.edu/content/dam/nyu-as/faculty/documents/Democ...

Quote:
As for political parties, some argue that allowing ex-felons to vote would benefit Democrats. A 2002 study by Uggen and Manza found that "Democratic candidates would have received about 7 out of every 10 votes cast by the felons and ex-felons in 14 of the last 15 US Senate election years."

Taking it a step further, when they examined how these figures would have affected elections, they found that seven Senate races out of more than 400 might have been flipped from 1970 to 1998.


Look at the "Estimated Felon Vote for Democratic Presidential Candidate" from here:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/253315719_The_Truly...

They've got numbers from '72-'96 with the lowest number being 71.6% (McGovern) and the high being 92.8% (Clinton re-election.)
 
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Daniel Kearns
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Oh, in that case, yes I’m only in favor of felons voting because they vote democratic.

Jesus.
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Greg Michealson
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bowen wrote:
the_bj wrote:
Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?

Some felons are quite enthusiastic Republicans, like this guy:


Or this guy.
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Greg Michealson
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the_bj wrote:
dkearns wrote:
the_bj wrote:
Would Democrats support allowing felons to vote if felons didn't overwhelmingly vote for Democrats? Would Republicans oppose them voting if they voted for Republicans?

Felons don’t overwhelmingly vote Democrat.

Felons can’t vote.

WTF are you talking about?


I just assumed this was widely known. There have been a number of studies done throughout the years. Also, states have varying levels of felon voting with some states allowing you to vote while imprisoned and others not giving back the right to vote even after they've completed all of their obligations for incarceration/parole/whatever else.

https://mic.com/articles/78013/most-convicts-vote-democrat-s...

Quote:
If you’ve spent some time in jail, you are much more likely to vote Democrat, according to a new study published in the Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science.

The numbers are actually pretty stark. In the three states the study analyzed – New York, New Mexico, and North Carolina – convicts overwhelmingly identified with the Democratic Party. Almost 62% of convicts in New York are registered Democrats and only 9% are Republican; 52% in New Mexico are Democrat, with just over 10% as Republican; and 54.6% are Democrat in North Carolina, and 10.2% are Republican.


http://as.nyu.edu/content/dam/nyu-as/faculty/documents/Democ...

Quote:
As for political parties, some argue that allowing ex-felons to vote would benefit Democrats. A 2002 study by Uggen and Manza found that "Democratic candidates would have received about 7 out of every 10 votes cast by the felons and ex-felons in 14 of the last 15 US Senate election years."

Taking it a step further, when they examined how these figures would have affected elections, they found that seven Senate races out of more than 400 might have been flipped from 1970 to 1998.


Look at the "Estimated Felon Vote for Democratic Presidential Candidate" from here:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/253315719_The_Truly...

They've got numbers from '72-'96 with the lowest number being 71.6% (McGovern) and the high being 92.8% (Clinton re-election.)


Regardless, Democrats get more votes nationwide than Republicans with or without felons voting.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/08/democrats-re...

Among the most eye-catching was a statistic showing Democrats led Republicans by more than 12 million votes in Senate races, and yet still suffered losses on the night and failed to win a majority of seats in the chamber.

According to the latest data, Democrats won the House popular vote by about seven percentage points in Tuesday night’s midterms.

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BJ
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Sue_G wrote:
I'm fairly sure you're not an advocate of voting restrictions on felons, right?


Generally speaking, I'm not in favor of felons voting from prison (like they can in Vermont and Maine). I'd like to see their voting rights restored after they've served their time (as is done in 36 states today.) On the other hand, there are entirely too many crimes which are felonies.

Ideally, fix the second mess getting rid of much of the idiotic drug war and cleaning up the disaster that is much of our federal regulations. Then the answer to the first question becomes much less relevant. We incarcerate too many people for non-violent crimes.
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BJ
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mrspank wrote:
Regardless, Democrats get more votes nationwide than Republicans with or without felons voting.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/08/democrats-re...

Among the most eye-catching was a statistic showing Democrats led Republicans by more than 12 million votes in Senate races, and yet still suffered losses on the night and failed to win a majority of seats in the chamber.

According to the latest data, Democrats won the House popular vote by about seven percentage points in Tuesday night’s midterms.



You still lose Tigris & Euphrates if you score 47 points in black but can't be bothered to score anything in blue. Come on, we're all gamers here. People are smarter than to fall for that line of thinking.
 
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Jorge Montero
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the_bj wrote:

Ideally, fix the second mess getting rid of much of the idiotic drug war and cleaning up the disaster that is much of our federal regulations. Then the answer to the first question becomes much less relevant. We incarcerate too many people for non-violent crimes.


And America does in on purpose, and it's not just Republicans favoring it: Certain former presidential candidate talked about superpredators back in the day. Making everything a felony, and then applying the laws unevenly, is seen as a feature by plenty in the Republican party, which carry the old school American tradition of thinking that too many people vote incorrectly, so the right idea is to not let them vote.

A country where more people can vote, and everyone's vote has more or less the same value is a country where one might be able to win nationally as a conservative, but there's no way in hell one can win with white nationalism.
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Trey Chambers
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the_bj wrote:
mrspank wrote:
Regardless, Democrats get more votes nationwide than Republicans with or without felons voting.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/08/democrats-re...

Among the most eye-catching was a statistic showing Democrats led Republicans by more than 12 million votes in Senate races, and yet still suffered losses on the night and failed to win a majority of seats in the chamber.

According to the latest data, Democrats won the House popular vote by about seven percentage points in Tuesday night’s midterms.



You still lose Tigris & Euphrates if you score 47 points in black but can't be bothered to score anything in blue. Come on, we're all gamers here. People are smarter than to fall for that line of thinking.


Yes, I wish a hundred thousand people from "my side" would move from California to Wyoming in order to exert maximum possible influence over our country.

But it's stupid that the system has to be "gamed" for the people to be fairly represented in government.
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BJ
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Shampoo4you wrote:
Yes, I wish a hundred thousand people from "my side" would move from California to Wyoming in order to exert maximum possible influence over our country.

But it's stupid that the system has to be "gamed" for the people to be fairly represented in government.


That depends on your definition of "fairly" I suppose.
 
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Trey Chambers
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the_bj wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
Yes, I wish a hundred thousand people from "my side" would move from California to Wyoming in order to exert maximum possible influence over our country.

But it's stupid that the system has to be "gamed" for the people to be fairly represented in government.


That depends on your definition of "fairly" I suppose.


I mean, currently a Wyoming citizen has about three times as much influence over the federal government than a citizen of California. By virtue of just...living in Wyoming.

Not sure how that's "fair" by any measure.
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BJ
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Shampoo4you wrote:
the_bj wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
Yes, I wish a hundred thousand people from "my side" would move from California to Wyoming in order to exert maximum possible influence over our country.

But it's stupid that the system has to be "gamed" for the people to be fairly represented in government.


That depends on your definition of "fairly" I suppose.


I mean, currently a Wyoming citizen has about three times as much influence over the federal government than a citizen of California. By virtue of just...living in Wyoming.

Not sure how that's "fair" by any measure.


Maybe even less than that now that California has decided to give their electors to the popular vote winner.
 
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