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Subject: Marines play the Next War series, would LOVE to have been a fly on the wall for that one rss

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Craig Truesdell
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https://warontherocks.com/2019/04/how-does-the-next-great-po...

Well worth reading.
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Dan Carey
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Wow, that is really interesting, thanks for posting.
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Matthias Döring
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I really like the bigger maps with bigger hexes - so there is no need to stack any counters.
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John Robinson
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I'd love to get a copy of the extra rules they used to tie them together and spending funds on extra's, lasers, space etc. I think would add another level to the game series.
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Craig Truesdell
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I thought the mental aspect related to heavy losses, nukes, and chemical attacks was really interesting. Just going through something like this using cardboard warriors can go a long way in preparing your mind to handle an extremely tough situation. I am reading about the battles around Kharkov and it is hard to imagine an all out war like that in 2020 with modern weapons. It would be a shock to the system much like WW1 was.
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Steven Dolges
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Yes, I agree it would be really nice to have a look at the 'investment' model used for investing in diplomacy or specific technologies/assets/logistics.

Mitch, any possibility of that? Maybe as part of a 'Gestalt' supplement for running the big combined games?
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Ron Freda
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Crosspost from CSW.

Here is a quote from the article:

"For those interested, the games used are all part of GMT’s Next War Series, designed by Mitchell Land and Greg Billingsley. I have found these commercial games are far more sophisticated and truer to what we expect future combat to look like than anything being used by RAND, which employs rules and methods designed for Simulations Publication, Inc. (SPI) games in the 1970s. But they are not alone in this, as most of the Department of Defense’s wargaming community is decades behind commercial game publishers when it comes to designing realistic games. In fact, if I was to fault the Next War series for anything, it is that it may be overly realistic and therefore very complex and difficult to master, and time consuming to play. Thankfully, the designer has agreed to produce a simplified rule-set that will allow for more student iterations without sacrificing realism."

Nice advertisement, guys!

Simple rules set? Just for the military?
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Mitchell Land
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srd5090 wrote:
Yes, I agree it would be really nice to have a look at the 'investment' model used for investing in diplomacy or specific technologies/assets/logistics.

Mitch, any possibility of that? Maybe as part of a 'Gestalt' supplement for running the big combined games?


Unfortunately, I had nothing to do with that. You'd have to contact Dr. Lacey about it.
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Mitchell Land
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ronfreda wrote:
Simple rules set? Just for the military?


That would be the plan.
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Mitchell Land
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I think these were, in many cases, larger in scope such as the Directed Diplomacy by the Blue team which allowed NATO to be heavily involved. Or increased logistics investment so as to be able to actually support a heavy US presence in Europe.

Other things were big ticket but very specific items such as hypersonic missiles and laser systems to shoot them down. Or the failed Quantum Computing effort.

The exercise was intended to get the students to think outside the boundaries of what they're used to which is why I say they weren't really there to play the game. The game map and pieces were there to give them focus to think operationally and strategically about what they'd need to conduct a multi-front war against near peer adversaries.
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Kev.
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Read & Watch at www.bigboardgaming.com
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ronfreda wrote:
Simple rules set? Just for the military?


That would be the plan.

You could get Ty Bomba to assist with that. The master of Abstraction and Top Secret field agent clearance to boot!
 
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Ralph Shelton
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To be clear, this was the Marine War College. Not all of the folks in uniform are Marines. One is from the UAE (grey camo), at least according to the flag on his uniform.
 
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Ralph Shelton
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hipshot wrote:
Toadkillerdog wrote:
ronfreda wrote:
Simple rules set? Just for the military?


That would be the plan.

You could get Ty Bomba to assist with that. The master of Abstraction and Top Secret field agent clearance to boot!
 
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Mitchell Land
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Jordan, actually.

Also, a Finnish and a Japanese officer. Plus, there were a few civilians from the alphabet soup of government agencies.

In addition, they're not all Marines, the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard were also present.
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charles kobold
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If some guys here would be interested perhaps we could set something similar up for some vassal time? It would be a serious time investment but very rewarding I think.
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John Robinson
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Im up for that
 
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Alexander Kentorp
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Toadkillerdog wrote:
ronfreda wrote:
Simple rules set? Just for the military?


That would be the plan.

Aww, that's a shame. I would pay good money for something like that.
 
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Mitchell Land
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Croaker13 wrote:
Toadkillerdog wrote:
ronfreda wrote:
Simple rules set? Just for the military?


That would be the plan.

Aww, that's a shame. I would pay good money for something like that.


I'm curious as to why? The Standard Rules in the game are already relatively simple.

To be clear, I'm just streamlining resolution of certain aspects so the participants can get to the stuff they care about faster.
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Ralph Shelton
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Toadkillerdog wrote:
Croaker13 wrote:
Toadkillerdog wrote:
ronfreda wrote:
Simple rules set? Just for the military?


That would be the plan.

Aww, that's a shame. I would pay good money for something like that.


I'm curious as to why? The Standard Rules in the game are already relatively simple.

To be clear, I'm just streamlining resolution of certain aspects so the participants can get to the stuff they care about faster.
The things they care about are the operational/strategic decisions and discussions.
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Mitchell Land
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revnye wrote:
Toadkillerdog wrote:
Croaker13 wrote:
Toadkillerdog wrote:
ronfreda wrote:
Simple rules set? Just for the military?


That would be the plan.

Aww, that's a shame. I would pay good money for something like that.


I'm curious as to why? The Standard Rules in the game are already relatively simple.

To be clear, I'm just streamlining resolution of certain aspects so the participants can get to the stuff they care about faster.
The things they care about are the operational/strategic decisions and discussions.


Correct. I'm asking why Croaker would pay for the simplified rules.
 
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Ralph Shelton
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Understood. I am highlighting why the Marine War College wants them, and why he shouldn't.
 
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Alexander Kentorp
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Well, to be clear I wouldn't pay the full price of a new game. But priced as an add-on thing, I'd be game.

For me the thing is that, all though I love the idea of the game, I also have two small children, a full-time job, a house and a whife who occasionally demands I talk to her. My life simply isn't setup for 20 hour games.

I'd still love to get some use out of those nice components and research you've done, so if I could get a slightly less detailed, but faster, game, I'd take it in a second.

The way I see it, if it's good enough for the US marines, I'm sure I can learn to love it as well.

Edit: Ok, a caveat. I obviously don't know anything about those simplified rules. If things get reduced to "the umpire decides the outcome of engagements", I probably don't want it. But as long as it basically functions as a game, I'm interested - even if it is technically "less fun".
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Alexander Kentorp
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revnye wrote:
Toadkillerdog wrote:
Croaker13 wrote:
Toadkillerdog wrote:
ronfreda wrote:
Simple rules set? Just for the military?


That would be the plan.

Aww, that's a shame. I would pay good money for something like that.


I'm curious as to why? The Standard Rules in the game are already relatively simple.

To be clear, I'm just streamlining resolution of certain aspects so the participants can get to the stuff they care about faster.
The things they care about are the operational/strategic decisions and discussions.

What makes you think that I don't?
 
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Mitchell Land
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Croaker13 wrote:
Well, to be clear I wouldn't pay the full price of a new game. But priced as an add-on thing, I'd be game.

For me the thing is that, all though I love the idea of the game, I also have two small children, a full-time job, a house and a whife who occasionally demands I talk to her. My life simply isn't setup for 20 hour games.

I'd still love to get some use out of those nice components and research you've done, so if I could get a slightly less detailed, but faster, game, I'd take it in a second.

The way I see it, if it's good enough for the US marines, I'm sure I can learn to love it as well.

Edit: Ok, a caveat. I obviously don't know anything about those simplified rules. If things get reduced to "the umpire decides the outcome of engagements", I probably don't want it. But as long as it basically functions as a game, I'm interested - even if it is technically "less fun".


Understood. I haven't made much headway on anything other than thinking some things through. Right now, it's all about speeding up combat resolution.
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Cameron Moubray
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I'm also interested in seeing that ruleset, "serious" military wargaming has always fascinated me.
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