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Hearts And Minds: 1965-1975 (Third Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Rulebook Anywhere? rss

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Adam Parker
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I'd like to buy but first want to look at the rules.

Is there a PDF anywhere? Thanks.
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John Poniske
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Not yet, Adam but I will inquire at Compass and see if they will do so.
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Rob Winslow
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It would be great if a "living" rulebook could be posted with errors corrected!

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Adam Parker
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John K. posted a few days ago he was " working on securing rules PDF for Hearts and Minds" for the Compass page. Just a bit weird no one has it. Thanks any way .
 
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Rob Winslow
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A straight PDF of the printed rulebook isn't going to help with the errors and omissions. Living rules, with corrections, are needed.
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Adam Parker
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Yes and no Rob. Having the release version of the rules:

1. Let's you gauge whether the game is for you. That's what I'm most interested in right now. How does it play, is its approach in sync with my view of the war? If yes, I'll likely buy.

2. Let's you take a PDF editor (not just Acrobat—there are some cheap ones around too) and fix the errata yourself. That's precisely what I do waiting for living rules. Unless the errata is so bad, then the game gets shelved till officially redone ala Illusions of Glory, Won by the Sword, Fields of Fire.

I'm not sure holding out for a PDF living rules for Hearts and Minds in the short term is the best strategy. Compass it seems (going by Korea) isn't set up for for coordinating these fast responses.

Vietnam Rumor of War is filled with typos and grammatical errors. I just went and fixed them myself.
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Rob Winslow
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That's fine if you want to be a DIY guy, Adam, but when I buy a game that has errors I'd like them to be fixed by the seller.

I fully realize that this is a cottage industry and designers/developers have other jobs, so no, I'm not one of those guys demanding that things get fixed yesterday. However, I paid good money for the game so I'll shelve it and try again when rules come out with fixes -- and I hope that won't be in the too distant future...

John and the guys at Compass are all very good people, and I suspect that the issues here will soon be cleared up. I can wait, but I hope the wait isn't too long.
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Brent Gaddie
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If you want to read the rules right now, you can download the second edition rules here:

http://hilinski.net/HeartsAndMinds/

AFAIK, there is no difference between the second and third edition rulebook.
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Troy Nichols
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I think the real issue here is :

For a game that is on its THIRD REPRINTING -- how is possible that there are still errata and errors in the rules.

I find it Mind blogging. Give the rule set to a new player unfamiliar with the game -- so these issues can hopefully be rooted out

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Brent Gaddie
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tntpiper wrote:
I think the real issue here is :

For a game that is on its THIRD REPRINTING -- how is possible that there are still errata and errors in the rules.

I find it Mind blogging. Give the rule set to a new player unfamiliar with the game -- so these issues can hopefully be rooted out



The first two editions were published by Worthington Games. This is technically the first printing done by Compass Games.

But I have to agree with you about the errors, another proofreader would have easily discovered a lot of these.
 
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Adam Parker
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Thanks for that link Brent but on some operating systems it comes up “not secure” so I’ll wait for the developer or Compass to upload something officially.

As for you guys who are unhappy that the game has errata, I agree but please start up another thread to lodge your complaints. This is not the thread for it.

All I’m asking for here is the release version rules set for this game.

Thanks.
 
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Christophe Jannin
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And the solo rules would be nice too
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John Poniske
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Adam, I inquired with Bill about posting a PDF of the rules but was told this would not happen. I have to agree with Brent. the basic rules have not changed and the posting by Stan Hilinski should satisfy you. As for the solitaire rules I'm afraid the answer is the same.

Regarding the solitaire rules. I would like you to understand that the man originally meant to playtest and vet them truly let me down and as a result I was forced to take up the reins on that under the pressure of a looming production schedule. This is NOT an excuse. It is an explanation. I accept responsibility for any failure here. The component quality of the third edition of HAM is truly primo - please do not hold a grudge against Compass. I prefer to be the one to fall on my sword.

Full errata will be forthcoming, allow a couple weeks to make sure we don't miss anything.

And thank you for you support of what really is a very good design.
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Adam Parker
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Poniske wrote:
Adam, I inquired with Bill about posting a PDF of the rules but was told this would not happen. I have to agree with Brent. the basic rules have not changed and the posting by Stan Hilinski should satisfy you. As for the solitaire rules I'm afraid the answer is the same.


Thanks for your efforts, John. But that's the craziest thing I've ever heard from a publisher whose game pages have a tab called "Rules".

Poniske wrote:
Regarding the solitaire rules. I would like you to understand that the man originally meant to playtest and vet them truly let me down and as a result I was forced to take up the reins on that under the pressure of a looming production schedule. This is NOT an excuse. It is an explanation.


No worries, project management is a learning process even for the experienced. Be kind to yourself
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Frank Lewis
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Poniske wrote:
Adam, I inquired with Bill about posting a PDF of the rules but was told this would not happen. I have to agree with Brent. the basic rules have not changed and the posting by Stan Hilinski should satisfy you.


Satisfies me. The fact that they won't keep a living rule set combined with the errors makes the decision easy. Keep in mind, I'm not gun-shy because you guys made a mistake, I'm gun-shy because Compass won't own errors and help get them fixed.

I've got the Russia Besieged with a huge typo on the PAC (BLITZKREIG), the issues with broken rules for the new Korea game (and their complete silence), and now this. Makes me wonder what they are going to release for the Balkoski and Herman reprints they are doing.

Edit: I forgot to add the component quality of Enemy Action Ardennes to my naughty list.
 
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Martin Gallo
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I agree that errata is not a good thing but as near as I can tell the RB error is just embarrassing snd not a game breaker. JMUO.
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Stan Hilinski
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tntpiper wrote:
I think the real issue here is :

For a game that is on its THIRD REPRINTING -- how is possible that there are still errata and errors in the rules.

I find it Mind blogging. Give the rule set to a new player unfamiliar with the game -- so these issues can hopefully be rooted out


What errata and errors are you referring to?
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Adam Parker
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shilinski wrote:
tntpiper wrote:
I think the real issue here is :

For a game that is on its THIRD REPRINTING -- how is possible that there are still errata and errors in the rules.

I find it Mind blogging. Give the rule set to a new player unfamiliar with the game -- so these issues can hopefully be rooted out


What errata and errors are you referring to?


Next to nothing as far as I can tell from what folks have posted on this forum. Yellow corps boundaries are red, blue boundaries are undefined—they're actually US bases, the rules refer to a spot where 4 provinces meet at a "point" but they really share boundaries, and one card the "Search and Destroy" is missing the word "Response". Then there's some confusion in forming response decks in solo mode.

Seriously if that's it I'm not worried. I just want to see if the "game as history" gels with my model of the war before I buy.

Heck GMT is currently doing reprints with errors. My just received Here I Stand 500th Anniversary Edition (a 3rd edition) has 3/4 of a page worth. But like this one, they're not worth marking the rules up.

Difference is, GMT has posted the rules, scenario book, and all charts online so I can make my own fixes. I did so to the charts that needed three minor tweaks. No living rules since latest printing btw.

[EDIT: PS If someone wants to start an errata thread, go for it.]
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Mike Marentette
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I'm not sure that I understand the lack of willingness to post the 3rd edition rules since Compass has posted rules for recent releases like Prelude to Rebellion (actually I think the designer posted them), Pacific Tide, and others.

I like to print out a rulebook so that I can keep the original in top shape. I'm not concerned about errata.

It's not like this is a complicated game and that is one of reasons why I like it. CDGs have become unnecessarily complex over the years, losing much of the spirit of Mark Herman's We The People.
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John Poniske
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Mike, as I understand it, Compass was unwilling to print the SOLITAIRE Rules, but is more than willing to offer the Base rules. They recently said so on CSW.
 
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Colin Taylor
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Poniske wrote:
Mike, as I understand it, Compass was unwilling to print the SOLITAIRE Rules, but is more than willing to offer the Base rules. They recently said so on CSW.


Then that makes my decision easy also. No rules preview means no buy from me. I've been caught out too many times with poorly written rules, that I have a personal requirement that I'm able to look through them before I buy. If I can't, then I move on.

Colin
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Adam Parker
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Poniske wrote:
Mike, as I understand it, Compass was unwilling to print the SOLITAIRE Rules, but is more than willing to offer the Base rules. They recently said so on CSW.


Wrong. Bill Thomas asked me to email Compass for the core rules.

I did. I got nothing. They’re not posted anywhere.

Compass has now moved on to its next game in the queue.

After buying 11 Compass games since 2017, this has just left a bad taste for me.
 
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Christophe Jannin
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ColintheFlea wrote:
Then that makes my decision easy also. No rules preview means no buy from me. I've been caught out too many times with poorly written rules, that I have a personal requirement that I'm able to look through them before I buy. If I can't, then I move on.

Colin


The same
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John Poniske
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Adam, I was telling you what Bill told me. I don't know why it hasn't been done yet, but I can't imagine him saying that and then going back on it.

In the meantime guys, as has been said before, the base rules for the 3rd Edition are unchanged. My developer, Stan Hilinski, WILL be posting the 2nd Edition rules shortly. We discussed this yesterday, so watch for the posting.
 
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Gabriel Conroy
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mikemarentette wrote:


I like to print out a rulebook so that I can keep the original in top shape. I'm not concerned about errata.


I'm the same - ever since I spilt coffee all over my rules for Here I Stand cry
 
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