Simon Kiertscher
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Yesterday we had our 3rd session which was a blast. But unfortunately all 4 of us (playing in teams of 2) where maximum confused about the rules about revealing hidden movement markers.
We would greatly appreciate if Michell could clarify our question.
Section 16.2 explains when Units are revealed.
Section 16.3 explains when HMM are revealed. But in fact it only explains where to place them after they are revealed. We could only find few wordings where the rules explain when to reveal a HMM (it almost always talks about hidden units which is very different to HMM.)
One example is the scouting with a natural 1.
Section 16.5.3 explains the results of Observation. Even here it talks about revealing hidden units but it does not say that the HMM is removed which is very confusing. We found an example where the HMM is removed but this is not what is written. As you can see from my long attempt to explain the problem, we are confused by the rules and when a HMM is really removed and when is it kept on the board and only the Units are revealed.
 
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Mitchell Land
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Technically, there's no question in that post. :-)

With one exception, when hidden units are revealed, the HMM is removed from the map and returned to the PAVN player at the beginning of the next turn.

The exception is when hidden units are revealed by an Observation roll with a natural "1". That HMM is placed on the Turn track 10 turns ahead.

The intent is that the HMM is just, potentially, a holding box for some possibly hidden units. When the units are revealed, the marker is always removed from the map.

I hope this helps.
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Simon Kiertscher
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It does indeed very much. So just to make it clear. If the PAVN attacks from out of a hex with a HMM and at leased one unit from the HMM attacks, the HMM is revealed as well and it is not important if other units in the HMM does not have attacked. In addition if I have 2 HMMs in one hex which is attacking with only one unit from out one of this HMMs, than the other one will stay on the board and the attacking unit can conceal itself in the last concealment phase again?
 
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Mitchell Land
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Almost, if one HMM in a hex is revealed, they are all revealed/removed. Don't stack!
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Simon Kiertscher
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OK, so basically if anything (e.g. only one unit) in a hex with a HMM is revealed, everything else in that hex is revealed as well.
Thanks a lot for clarification. I think I will write that sentence with a pen into my rule book :-)
May this can be added as well into the clarification/errata document for other peoples who are struggling with it?
Again, thanks so much for the quick and clear answer.
 
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So whenever a single unit is attacking from a hidden stack, the hole stack is revealed? Even if it's just a mortar doing air defense fire?
And what's if a open stack is a attacking and a hmm just moved in. Do I have to reveal this too?
 
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Mitchell Land
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Sorry, I was a little unclear.

That "don't stack/reveal all" was for Observation missions. If you find one HMM in a hex using Observation, you find them all.

Only the actual attacking units need to be revealed in any other case. In fact, if you have an HMM with 4 units under it, and only 2 attack, only the 2 attacking units need to be placed on the map; the HMM can remain to conceal the other two units.

I fear I may have muddied the waters a bit.

If all units in an HMM box are revealed, the marker is removed. It is possible for the PAVN player to reveal only some of the units and not reveal the marker. It is not possible to reveal all the units and leave the marker (as a Dummy).
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Thanks
 
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Simon Kiertscher
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So I can in indeed attack with 2 units out of an HHM (which still holds units) and hide them again before the FWA can even react.
Thanks again for clarifying this in more depth. Do you plan to add something to the faq/errate file regarding this point?
 
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Mitchell Land
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Kiertscher wrote:
So I can in indeed attack with 2 units out of an HHM (which still holds units) and hide them again before the FWA can even react.
Thanks again for clarifying this in more depth. Do you plan to add something to the faq/errate file regarding this point?


As a clarification, perhaps.
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