Ran into a situation in my current game where I (as Dracula) wanted to play Seduction to bite a Hunter that found a New Vampire, and the Hunter wanted to play Forewarned to discard the encounter (but only after I played Seduction).
Forewarned says: "Play this card after Dracula reveals an encounter in your location but before it takes effect. Discard the encounter without effect."
Seduction says: "Play this card when a Hunter finds a New Vampire encounter at night. Instead of resolving the encounter normally..."
I dealt with this particulat situation by using Devilish Power to cancel Forewarned (though I would have much preferred if I didn't have to), but I wasn't sure how to resolve this. I'm wondering:
1) Who has the first opportunity to play their respective card when the New Vampire is encountered?
2) Can Forewarned be used to discard the encounter after Seduction has been played?
3) If so, is Seduction discarded without effect, or is Dracula allowed to take it back into his hand?
This is complicated by the fact that "find" doesn't seem to be a technical term used by the rules, so it's not clear exactly when Seduction is played in the resolution sequence. Game designers who write special cards that supercede the regular rules really need to learn to use language consistently and precisely.
The main two options I'm leaning towards are:
A) Interpret "finds" as meaning the moment Dracula chooses that encounter (rather than any others that might be at that location) to be resolved. Seduction can therefore be played before the encounter is revealed and replaces the normal rules for resolving the encounter, so Dracula has the first opportunity to play, and if he chooses to play Seduction, then Forewarned cannot be played at all (unless Seduction is canceled with Good Luck).
B) Since Seduction changes the effect of the encounter, it is played when the encounter's effect would normally be applied. The Hunter has an opportunity to play Forewarned as soon as the encounter is revealed. If the Hunter chooses not to play it then, Dracula can play Seduction to change the encounter's effect, and at that point the opportunity to play Forewarned has already passed (must be played "before it takes effect"), and so Forewarned cannot be played in response to Seduction.
I particularly don't like the idea that Forewarned could cancel both an encounter and an event card, but I'm open to hearing arguments on the point.
I notice that this has been discussed before
My view would be that you need to pause a moment after Dracula reveals the encounter to allow the hunters to play forewarned. If they don't then Seduction can be played at which time the encounter has started to take effect and it is too late to play Forewarned.
1) The hunters first have a chance to play
2) It is too late to play Forewarned after Seduction is played
3) N/A because of answer to 2.
Ah, but you see, that was Seduction vs. Forewarned, and this is Forewarned vs. Seduction...eheh.
I'm sorry I didn't find the previous discussion. Looks like most people like what I labeled as option B.
It occurs to me that if the hunter doesn't play Forewarned, he has to roll a die, so rather than a vague "pause for a moment" rule, a useful convention might be to say that the Hunter has forfeited the opportunity to play Forewarned when he picks up the die.
Grey Dolphin Games
There have been quite a few timing questions recently.
We resolve it as such (apologies for the micromanaging):
1) Hunter moves onto location.
2) Dracula reveals encounter.
3) Hunter has a chance to decide how to react to the encounter. Note, at this point Dracula may read the encounter to him, or the hunter may read it to himself, if he forgot what it does.
4) Hunter plays "forewarned" OR indicates that the die should be rolled.
5) Assuming the die was chosen, Dracula plays Seduction.
See, I always interpreted the encounters to be in Dracula's control, and as such, Dracula rolls the die. If your group has the hunters roll the die, then by all means use that as your "forwarned" forfeiture indicator. Otherwise, I think the above process works.
All in all, this game is very good with timing, with a couple of exceptions like this. It is important to then discuss the timing with your group, and above all, avoid card "rushing" to get into play first.
- Last edited Sat Oct 6, 2007 7:26 am (Total Number of Edits: 1)
- Posted Sat Oct 6, 2007 6:53 am