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Subject: Dice Tower Con 2019 (No Ship) Math Trade Discussion rss

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Ben R
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Why play 'em when you can trade 'em?!?!
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And on the 8th day, God said "Let there be Math Trades"
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So, what is a Math Trade?

Most trades are linear, 2 people exchange items directly. A Math Trade allows for circular or indirect trading, meaning Person A will give to Person B, who in-kind gives to Person C, all the way around until Person A gets a game.

Do I need to use Math?

No, we use an algorithm to solve for the most possible trades within the group, but no math is required on your part!

Who can participate?

In order to participate in the trade you must:

d10-1Be a registered attendee.
d10-2Accurately describe your offering.
d10-3Agree to attend the exchange or make outside arrangements to get your game(s) to their recipients.

How do I participate?

We're using a platform called "Abecorn" to facilitate the trade. You can find it here: https://trade.abecorn.com/#/trade/5cd59fcd59080100435623cd

You'll need to register to use Abecorn, but it's completely free. I recommend using the same username you do on BGG. Once there, there are lots of tutorials to help you through the process. Any other questions should be sent to me via GeekMail or posted here.

When is the Official Exchange?


The math trade will piggyback with the VFM exchange:

o Thursday, July 4th, Caribbean V-VII, 4:00-5:00 pm
o Saturday, July 6th, Caribbean V-VII, 4:00-5:00 pm


Important Dates

You must have your games listed and your matrix submitted before June 21st, 10 PM Pacific. Unlike prior years with the OLWLG, Abecorn does not have separate periods for listing then wanting games. You offer games, then fill out wants as they're posted.


Good Luck & Have Fun!
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Ben R
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A couple of big differences for those accustomed to the OLWLG:

1) There are not 2 different list/want periods. You can list items as you go, and fill out your trade matrix as items are listed. You do need to "approve" your matrix before the deadline.

2) You don't need to create listings for cash. Each listing has a place to offer cash or value. The value will cross reference your listings, cash is cash.

Likewise, if you use the valuation blanks for the games you've listed, you can opt to receive X amount of value or cash.

If you fill out both, either in your offerings or your wants, don't be surprised to get/give a bunch of cash. If you strictly want to trade games for games, just leave the "cash" field empty.
 
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Brian G
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Thank you!

I'm wondering how to come up with values. Is that what I'd as for or retail price?
 
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Sarah Kelley
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Ben, question
Is there a rule against offering the same game here and in the VFM? Would pulling a game from the Math Trade mess something up?

I haven't registered to Abecorn, so maybe these things are covered there . . .

I'm not asking about anything that's already been traded or sold-- but games that are just sitting in the system being ignored.
 
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Sarah Kelley
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Brian, I found this in the tutorial:
When you add an item you can optionally assign a cash value to it. Assigning a cash value means that is the MINIMUM cash value you're willing to accept in trade.
 
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Ben R
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And on the 8th day, God said "Let there be Math Trades"
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SarahKelley wrote:
Ben, question
Is there a rule against offering the same game here and in the VFM? Would pulling a game from the Math Trade mess something up?
I haven't registered to Abecorn, so maybe these things are covered there . . .

No, in the past we have, and I think this hurt participation.

Just be careful not to promise 1 game to 2 people. If it sells, delete it from Abecorn. If it trades, which you won't know until the
6/22, withdraw it from the VFM.
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Sarah Kelley
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Thank you Ben!
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Ben R
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billmcdougal wrote:
Thank you!

I'm wondering how to come up with values. Is that what I'd all for vs retail price?

First off, the value field is completely optional. It's a huge help for people listing and wanting a large number of games, but if you're going to list a few and want a few, you don't have to worry about it. On your trade matrix you can simply say:

For my game A, I'd be willing to accept X, Y, or Z.
For my game B, I'd only want Y or Z.
For my game C, I'd only accept Z or $50 cash... Ect


Then to the age-old question of valuing a game. To do it well, you really have to look at several variables. I've bought, sold, or traded over 1100 games, this is my process:

What can I buy the game for new(If in print)
Is there a demand for it(BGG marketplace/eBay, how many have sold in the last 6 months?)
Average selling price in the BGG marketplace.
Average selling price on eBay.
How much can I buy it for used? (VFM listings, Marketplace)

Don't consider: Amazon asking prices, it's not a free market for most publishers' games.

Just remember, what you paid for it is completely irrelevant. Good/Well known games go up in value once unavailable, almost all the others go down.

Also, don't get hung up on value. 99% of gamers consider it a win if they get rid of a game they're not going to play in exchange for one they are, regardless of "value".
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Brian G
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BentlyCash wrote:

Also, don't get hung up on value. 99% of gamers consider it a win if they get rid of a game they're not going to play in exchange for one they are, regardless of "value".

Thanks! I agree here, I have games that hurt to list at so much less than I paid, but that I would gladly trade for some games listed for even less in the VFM
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Kirke Lawton
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I love the idea of this Math Trade platform, but the software is actually more confusing than the other one (and I didn't that that was possible).

Is there a better tutorial than the crappy document on the site?

I have a few items listed, but I can't figure out how to say "I'm willing to pay A and B for X."

Any hints?
 
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MJ Petrie
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I added a few things. It’s my first Math Trade, I’m not sure if I did it right. Lol!
 
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Ben R
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And on the 8th day, God said "Let there be Math Trades"
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klawton wrote:
I love the idea of this Math Trade platform, but the software is actually more confusing than the other one (and I didn't that that was possible).

Is there a better tutorial than the crappy document on the site?

I have a few items listed, but I can't figure out how to say "I'm willing to pay A and B for X."

Any hints?

Once you find where everything is, Abecorn is actually much more user-friendly for new users, which is why I chose to use it for this trade, but it's still a work in progress. Here are some basics:

Clicking on the heart of someone's listing will add it to your want list.

The "make trades" tab is where you can either make a cash offer or fill in a value. Click the green "+" to display both fields.

Under the same tab "graph & trade matrix" will let you fill in X/Y check boxes.

When you list a game, you can fill in "Min $ Accept" for the cash you'd be willing to accept, and/or the "value" field to help with your X/Y grid.

Post any other specific questions you have and I'll answer as best I can.
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Ben Stephenson
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sweetie2625 wrote:
I added a few things. It’s my first Math Trade, I’m not sure if I did it right. Lol!

Welcome to math trading! I checked, you did everything correctly.
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MJ Petrie
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Bien wrote:
sweetie2625 wrote:
I added a few things. It’s my first Math Trade, I’m not sure if I did it right. Lol!

Welcome to math trading! I checked, you did everything correctly.

Thank you for checking! With my luck I could have messed everything up! Lol!
 
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Kirke Lawton
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This video might help someone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRieeYzUA5s

There's no voice over and it's only a minute long, but at least you can see what's supposed to happen.

A couple of tips from a Mac guy:
1. With Safari, I can't see what I type in the various places where you're supposed to type in a number. It works, but it's like using a white font with a white background. I tested with Firefox and it works properly.
2. If you don't see any of your items when you go to the Trade tab (and therefore there is nothing for you to do), try entering a value in the "optional" value field for your items. Mine didn't show up until I did this. Oddly enough, once they showed up, I could delete the value and they didn't disappear.

This system does hold the promise of being much less intimidating than the other math trade software, but it's very very "beta" at this stage.
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MJ Petrie
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Does it show somewhere if someone has selected your game for their want list?
 
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Dean Peterson

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sweetie2625 wrote:
Does it show somewhere if someone has selected your game for their want list?

Yes, under the "Edit My Items" tab you will see an "Offers" link on each of your items. That has the number. If you click that link, you will go to a page dedicated to just your item. At the top is an accordion that also shows the number. After trade end, the accordion will have further details about what the offers were.


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MJ Petrie
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depeters wrote:
sweetie2625 wrote:
Does it show somewhere if someone has selected your game for their want list?

Yes, under the "Edit My Items" tab you will see an "Offers" link on each of your items. That has the number. If you click that link, you will go to a page dedicated to just your item. At the top is an accordion that also shows the number. After trade end, the accordion will have further details about what the offers were.



Thank you! Sorry to be such a Newbie!
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Donald Dichiara
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I just posted a game (hopefully correctly) and think I have requested a game. At least something is showing in “haves” and “items wanting”. Did I do this right? I am a noob to this lol
 
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Sarah Kelley
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The game is posted correctly.
I'm not sure how to check any list of items wanted that aren't currently on offer.
To mark interest in a game already on offer you heart it.
 
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Matthew Fedel
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Added an item just now. This is my second ever math trade, so I hope I did everything correct. I just figured out OWLG system last year.
 
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Sarah Kelley
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Since none of us know what we're doing, it begs the question: Where are all the math trade pros hiding?
 
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Ben R
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Y'all are overthinking it. You list games. You line those listings up with other games you'd be happy to trade your listing for. If those align with others listings and wants, you make a trade.

When we get closer to the end, I'll post some reminders and answer any specific questions you might have.
 
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Cartchamp
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BentlyCash wrote:
Y'all are overthinking it. You list games. You line those listings up with other games you'd be happy to trade your listing for. If those align with others listings and wants, you make a trade.

When we get closer to the end, I'll post some reminders and answer any specific questions you might have.

So this version doesn’t try to maximize the number of trades after all of the submissions?
 
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Ben R
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And on the 8th day, God said "Let there be Math Trades"
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Cartchamp wrote:
BentlyCash wrote:
Y'all are overthinking it. You list games. You line those listings up with other games you'd be happy to trade your listing for. If those align with others listings and wants, you make a trade.

When we get closer to the end, I'll post some reminders and answer any specific questions you might have.

So this version doesn’t try to maximize the number of trades after all of the submissions?

Abecorn/OLWLG are both dashboards for your wants. Trademax is the engine that makes the trades happen. So, yes, it will solve for the most amount of trades...
 
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