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Subject: Texas Werewolf XIV rss

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Stone
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The set being 11-4 with us killing the aux doomed us. Unless each of us play the game of our lives, we would lose. Especially with how well goods find each other on this site right now.

This set needs to be converted into a 13er, or given a 5th evil (aux). I'm shocked that evil won three times, and I guarantee you some of those times were like a tinker wolf clear, which again I have an abhorance for.
 
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RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
There was definite chatter in dead chat about potentially a 5th evil, or a reduction to a 13er with the same composition of evils - thoughts there - or would an Apprentice Seer change be sufficient?

A 5th evil would need to be an aux - not a wolf. Remember than a tinker is still a powerful thing for evil - both on a good and one a wolf.

A 13er that removed apprentice seer would be interesting - but I'd want it to be 2 wolves/2 auxes then too.

The 5th would be an aux yeah, and the idea of a 13er would be the same composition of evil as this game just gone.

I think regardless, either I'd like to introduce the App gap as I'm calling it or remove the role for something else entirely though.

I don't think I'd like a 13er with 3 wolves, an aux and a tinker card in play.

Let's ax the app seer and tinker cards. Introduce some other weak cards for people.

Wolves would need 3 mislynches, and I think that is a very fair number in a 13er.
 
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stonecutter129 wrote:
The set being 11-4 with us killing the aux doomed us. Unless each of us play the game of our lives, we would lose. Especially with how well goods find each other on this site right now.

This set needs to be converted into a 13er, or given a 5th evil (aux). I'm shocked that evil won three times, and I guarantee you some of those times were like a tinker wolf clear, which again I have an abhorance for.

I can tell you that I definitely have a perverse sense of enjoyment about the notion of Tinker/Wolf being possible laugh
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stonecutter129 wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
There was definite chatter in dead chat about potentially a 5th evil, or a reduction to a 13er with the same composition of evils - thoughts there - or would an Apprentice Seer change be sufficient?

A 5th evil would need to be an aux - not a wolf. Remember than a tinker is still a powerful thing for evil - both on a good and one a wolf.

A 13er that removed apprentice seer would be interesting - but I'd want it to be 2 wolves/2 auxes then too.

I disagree.

There's also just more things that have it going for good too. There's some awkward villager crunch scenarios for evil that could doom them if too many villagers die. Wolves essentially have to hide as villagers in that sense if both get wolf/villager, and that could screw them up.

3 wolves and a tinker card in a 13er puts too much on the mechanical views piece that you just said you hated (and I agree with).

I do agree that a large number of villager cards is still needed for wolves to hide into.
 
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I'd agree with getting rid of the Apprentice Seer.

I liked the variability of the vote manipulation roles, but was definitely worried about some of them. Politician in Evil's hands? *shudder*

Maybe more variability in what roles can be in the game? Give the wolves some other possibilities - and risks - during claims?
 
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I do feel like we can hash it out to get to a spot that'll be fun to redo sometime soon though. At its crux I really enjoy the complexity of the dual-role dealio =)
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stonecutter129 wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
There was definite chatter in dead chat about potentially a 5th evil, or a reduction to a 13er with the same composition of evils - thoughts there - or would an Apprentice Seer change be sufficient?

A 5th evil would need to be an aux - not a wolf. Remember than a tinker is still a powerful thing for evil - both on a good and one a wolf.

A 13er that removed apprentice seer would be interesting - but I'd want it to be 2 wolves/2 auxes then too.

The 5th would be an aux yeah, and the idea of a 13er would be the same composition of evil as this game just gone.

I think regardless, either I'd like to introduce the App gap as I'm calling it or remove the role for something else entirely though.

I don't think I'd like a 13er with 3 wolves, an aux and a tinker card in play.

Let's ax the app seer and tinker cards. Introduce some other weak cards for people.

Wolves would need 3 mislynches, and I think that is a very fair number in a 13er.

a common balance technique is for mislynches to equal the number of wolves.

15er with 3 wolves that requires 3 mislynches is spot on IMO.
 
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Farren wrote:
I'd agree with getting rid of the Apprentice Seer.

I liked the variability of the vote manipulation roles, but was definitely worried about some of them. Politician in Evil's hands? *shudder*

Maybe more variability in what roles can be in the game? Give the wolves some other possibilities - and risks - during claims?

I agree.

Unless the wolves get a ton of GS cards, they have to hide in the villager pool, and hope some of the GS cards double up.
 
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RoyalApe wrote:
stonecutter129 wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
There was definite chatter in dead chat about potentially a 5th evil, or a reduction to a 13er with the same composition of evils - thoughts there - or would an Apprentice Seer change be sufficient?

A 5th evil would need to be an aux - not a wolf. Remember than a tinker is still a powerful thing for evil - both on a good and one a wolf.

A 13er that removed apprentice seer would be interesting - but I'd want it to be 2 wolves/2 auxes then too.

The 5th would be an aux yeah, and the idea of a 13er would be the same composition of evil as this game just gone.

I think regardless, either I'd like to introduce the App gap as I'm calling it or remove the role for something else entirely though.

I don't think I'd like a 13er with 3 wolves, an aux and a tinker card in play.

Let's ax the app seer and tinker cards. Introduce some other weak cards for people.

Wolves would need 3 mislynches, and I think that is a very fair number in a 13er.

a common balance technique is for mislynches to equal the number of wolves.

15er with 3 wolves that requires 3 mislynches is spot on IMO.

Well then you need that 5th evil being an aux.

I personally would make it a 13er and keeping it at 4 evils. Taking away both apprentice seer and 2 villager cards.
 
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stonecutter129 wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
stonecutter129 wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
There was definite chatter in dead chat about potentially a 5th evil, or a reduction to a 13er with the same composition of evils - thoughts there - or would an Apprentice Seer change be sufficient?

A 5th evil would need to be an aux - not a wolf. Remember than a tinker is still a powerful thing for evil - both on a good and one a wolf.

A 13er that removed apprentice seer would be interesting - but I'd want it to be 2 wolves/2 auxes then too.

The 5th would be an aux yeah, and the idea of a 13er would be the same composition of evil as this game just gone.

I think regardless, either I'd like to introduce the App gap as I'm calling it or remove the role for something else entirely though.

I don't think I'd like a 13er with 3 wolves, an aux and a tinker card in play.

Let's ax the app seer and tinker cards. Introduce some other weak cards for people.

Wolves would need 3 mislynches, and I think that is a very fair number in a 13er.

a common balance technique is for mislynches to equal the number of wolves.

15er with 3 wolves that requires 3 mislynches is spot on IMO.

Well then you need that 5th evil being an aux.

I personally would make it a 13er and keeping it at 4 evils. Taking away both apprentice seer and 2 villager cards.

And adding in variability with more GS roles.
 
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RoyalApe wrote:
fwiw, until your final day, I did think you read soundly good too. Your final day felt like wolf desparation to me.

Desperation is pretty accurate. Just isn't exclusive to Evil|Me.
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The_Rorab wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
There was definite chatter in dead chat about potentially a 5th evil, or a reduction to a 13er with the same composition of evils - thoughts there - or would an Apprentice Seer change be sufficient?

A 5th evil would need to be an aux - not a wolf. Remember than a tinker is still a powerful thing for evil - both on a good and one a wolf.

A 13er that removed apprentice seer would be interesting - but I'd want it to be 2 wolves/2 auxes then too.

The 5th would be an aux yeah, and the idea of a 13er would be the same composition of evil as this game just gone.

I think regardless, either I'd like to introduce the App gap as I'm calling it or remove the role for something else entirely though.

13 with 3 max Evils and an Aux, with one who might be an Alpha is too much, imo.
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I also personally think given the current meta of players on the site right now, I think a lot of people are much more adept at playing as good right now then playing as evil, and in doubt I would skew sets evil.
 
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stonecutter129 wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
stonecutter129 wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
There was definite chatter in dead chat about potentially a 5th evil, or a reduction to a 13er with the same composition of evils - thoughts there - or would an Apprentice Seer change be sufficient?

A 5th evil would need to be an aux - not a wolf. Remember than a tinker is still a powerful thing for evil - both on a good and one a wolf.

A 13er that removed apprentice seer would be interesting - but I'd want it to be 2 wolves/2 auxes then too.

The 5th would be an aux yeah, and the idea of a 13er would be the same composition of evil as this game just gone.

I think regardless, either I'd like to introduce the App gap as I'm calling it or remove the role for something else entirely though.

I don't think I'd like a 13er with 3 wolves, an aux and a tinker card in play.

Let's ax the app seer and tinker cards. Introduce some other weak cards for people.

Wolves would need 3 mislynches, and I think that is a very fair number in a 13er.

a common balance technique is for mislynches to equal the number of wolves.

15er with 3 wolves that requires 3 mislynches is spot on IMO.

Well then you need that 5th evil being an aux.

I personally would make it a 13er and keeping it at 4 evils. Taking away both apprentice seer and 2 villager cards.

Actually, take a tinker card out and put back in a villager.

You have a potential for a potential no reveal tinker which is stupid, and changes the game. See Sarah's tough werewolf from years ago.
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What do you mean Stone? We ALL definitely didn't become scarred by Armored Werewolf. whistle
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Smugs wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
There was definite chatter in dead chat about potentially a 5th evil, or a reduction to a 13er with the same composition of evils - thoughts there - or would an Apprentice Seer change be sufficient?

A 5th evil would need to be an aux - not a wolf. Remember than a tinker is still a powerful thing for evil - both on a good and one a wolf.

A 13er that removed apprentice seer would be interesting - but I'd want it to be 2 wolves/2 auxes then too.

The 5th would be an aux yeah, and the idea of a 13er would be the same composition of evil as this game just gone.

I think regardless, either I'd like to introduce the App gap as I'm calling it or remove the role for something else entirely though.

13 with 3 max Evils and an Aux, with one who might be an Alpha is too much, imo.

It could work with the right card mix. But just based on pure vanilla werewolving - the vanilla 13er is 3 wolves vs 9 villagers and a seer.

It's definitely the tinker card that makes it the most unappealing to me as a 13er with 3 wolves. Way too swingy on a single card that is also unknown.

As a KNOWN Tinker card, it would be better - but still bad in 13p set.
 
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stonecutter129 wrote:
stonecutter129 wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
stonecutter129 wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
The_Rorab wrote:
There was definite chatter in dead chat about potentially a 5th evil, or a reduction to a 13er with the same composition of evils - thoughts there - or would an Apprentice Seer change be sufficient?

A 5th evil would need to be an aux - not a wolf. Remember than a tinker is still a powerful thing for evil - both on a good and one a wolf.

A 13er that removed apprentice seer would be interesting - but I'd want it to be 2 wolves/2 auxes then too.

The 5th would be an aux yeah, and the idea of a 13er would be the same composition of evil as this game just gone.

I think regardless, either I'd like to introduce the App gap as I'm calling it or remove the role for something else entirely though.

I don't think I'd like a 13er with 3 wolves, an aux and a tinker card in play.

Let's ax the app seer and tinker cards. Introduce some other weak cards for people.

Wolves would need 3 mislynches, and I think that is a very fair number in a 13er.

a common balance technique is for mislynches to equal the number of wolves.

15er with 3 wolves that requires 3 mislynches is spot on IMO.

Well then you need that 5th evil being an aux.

I personally would make it a 13er and keeping it at 4 evils. Taking away both apprentice seer and 2 villager cards.

Actually, take a tinker card out and put back in a villager.

You have a potential for a potential no reveal tinker which is stupid, and changes the game. See Sarah's tough werewolf from years ago.

Yes. 13p with 3 wolves and an aux vs 9 goods including 1 seer and some other random assortment of interesting cards - that's good and doable.

Though 13p also probably makes the lovers less appealing in general - but still ok since they can be on evil too.
 
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RoyalApe wrote:
It could work with the right card mix. But just based on pure vanilla werewolving - the vanilla 13er is 3 wolves vs 9 villagers and a seer.

It's definitely the tinker card that makes it the most unappealing to me as a 13er with 3 wolves. Way too swingy on a single card that is also unknown.

As a KNOWN Tinker card, it would be better - but still bad in 13p set.

With a known Tinker, it pretty much becomes a case of claiming it D1?

Good wants to eliminate the possibility of an Alpha and verify clears.

Evil - if they have Tinker - could just have a different wolf claim it. But then if the Tinker|wolf gets flipped, that hoses Evil over as well.
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Farren wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
It could work with the right card mix. But just based on pure vanilla werewolving - the vanilla 13er is 3 wolves vs 9 villagers and a seer.

It's definitely the tinker card that makes it the most unappealing to me as a 13er with 3 wolves. Way too swingy on a single card that is also unknown.

As a KNOWN Tinker card, it would be better - but still bad in 13p set.

With a known Tinker, it pretty much becomes a case of claiming it D1?

Good wants to eliminate the possibility of an Alpha and verify clears.

Evil - if they have Tinker - could just have a different wolf claim it. But then if the Tinker|wolf gets flipped, that hoses Evil over as well.

fwiw, I generally dislike knowledgeable tinker cards because of the standard to claim it d1.

But you could flip the script on it by instead of it being unknown to holder, it simply REVEALS AS Villager.

Still means that holder should claim it d1 - but doesn't kill evil to do so.
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RoyalApe wrote:
Farren wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
It could work with the right card mix. But just based on pure vanilla werewolving - the vanilla 13er is 3 wolves vs 9 villagers and a seer.

It's definitely the tinker card that makes it the most unappealing to me as a 13er with 3 wolves. Way too swingy on a single card that is also unknown.

As a KNOWN Tinker card, it would be better - but still bad in 13p set.

With a known Tinker, it pretty much becomes a case of claiming it D1?

Good wants to eliminate the possibility of an Alpha and verify clears.

Evil - if they have Tinker - could just have a different wolf claim it. But then if the Tinker|wolf gets flipped, that hoses Evil over as well.

fwiw, I generally dislike knowledgeable tinker cards because of the standard to claim it d1.

But you could flip the script on it by instead of it being unknown to holder, it simply REVEALS AS Villager.

Still means that holder should claim it d1 - but doesn't kill evil to do so.

actually, I really like that as a concept with the double role cards here.
 
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RoyalApe wrote:
fwiw, I generally dislike knowledgeable tinker cards because of the standard to claim it d1.

But you could flip the script on it by instead of it being unknown to holder, it simply REVEALS AS Villager.

Still means that holder should claim it d1 - but doesn't kill evil to do so.

I don't know that I agree with the "Tinker should always claim D1" in a set where Tinkers are just false hits.

But in a set where Tinker|Wolves are false clears, that's what I'd push for.

Why would Tinker revealing as villager make a difference?
 
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Farren wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
fwiw, I generally dislike knowledgeable tinker cards because of the standard to claim it d1.

But you could flip the script on it by instead of it being unknown to holder, it simply REVEALS AS Villager.

Still means that holder should claim it d1 - but doesn't kill evil to do so.

I don't know that I agree with the "Tinker should always claim D1" in a set where Tinkers are just false hits.

But in a set where Tinker|Wolves are false clears, that's what I'd push for.

Why would Tinker revealing as villager make a difference?

It only makes it to where wolves could swap the claim with another wolf to throw of the seer.
 
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RoyalApe wrote:
Farren wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
fwiw, I generally dislike knowledgeable tinker cards because of the standard to claim it d1.

But you could flip the script on it by instead of it being unknown to holder, it simply REVEALS AS Villager.

Still means that holder should claim it d1 - but doesn't kill evil to do so.

I don't know that I agree with the "Tinker should always claim D1" in a set where Tinkers are just false hits.

But in a set where Tinker|Wolves are false clears, that's what I'd push for.

Why would Tinker revealing as villager make a difference?

It only makes it to where wolves could swap the claim with another wolf to throw of the seer.

Right, of course. At least if there's a Wolf|Villager, but more likely to be true than not.
 
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killing is your aux is such a major drawback. probably as it should be. but it's nearly insurmountable in alot of games.
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i feel like a knowledgeable tinker should always claim D1. and that's kinda why i don't like them.
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