Recommend
7 
 Thumb up
 Hide
44 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Gaia Project» Forums » General

Subject: Why no Gaia expansions? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jon Locke
United States
Panama City
Florida
flag msg tools
mb
Why do they keep making Terra Mystica expansions when Gaia Project is infinitely a better game?
The last thing I want is another expansion for TM. My group has been interested in a Gaia Project expansion since the base game was released. Honestly confused as to why they keep trying to update a game that is basically a first edition of Gaia.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Stone
Australia
Wavell Heights
Queensland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
It may be because TM has a lot of people who still enjoy it - who felt that they didn't need to additionally buy GM.

And also, perhaps, because of the lag time of several years play-testing new official expansions.

But, I do agree with you - I also prefer GM to TM.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Anthony Heitzinger
United States
New Mexico
flag msg tools
Well, gaia came out in 2017, so it's not been that long. I'm sure a Gaia expansion is coming eventually.

As for TM, its like over ten years old, and it's only gotten one large expansion, so another expansion is welcome. While GP is definitely better, I'll happily play TM any day since it's still an awesome game. I'm not sure if I will buy the new expansion though.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Latshaw
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmb
Because not everyone thinks GP is an infinitely better game.
25 
 Thumb up
0.50
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mitch Harding
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad." - Salvador Dali
badge
Mostly harmless
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While I think GP is better, I don't think it's a direct upgrade in all ways. There are several things that are just different, rather than better or worse.

Personally, I hope that both games continue to be maintained in parallel. I'd love a GP expansion. And having playtested both upcoming TM expansions, I'm very excited to buy them both when they're released. I'm always happy to play TM or GP -- they're both fantastic games.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robin Zigmond
United Kingdom
Durham
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Rachelisapoopy wrote:

As for TM, its like over ten years old


It was definitely 2019 when I went to bed last night. Have I really woken up in 2023 or later?
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Spirio
Austria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sabgfan wrote:
Because not everyone thinks GP is an infinitely better game.
but objective it is
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ramirez Kyogen
Netherlands
Friesland
flag msg tools
mb
Gaia project doesn't need an expansion, it's perfect from itself.cool









(but secretly hoping there will be an expansion (or 2) someday)
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert
Germany
Bocholt
flag msg tools
badge
I paid 100 Geek Gold so that you can read this! :-)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Add me to the list of people who feel that TM stands its ground against GP. Don't get me wrong: I like GP and my analytical brain considers it even slightly better than TM (but infinitely better? You must be crazy, guys! ). However my feelings of TM are much fonder, and when there's an opportunity to play TM, I'll jump on it, whereas for me, playing GP requires a certain state of (analytical) mind.

Offer me a game of GP, and I'll likely join; offer me a game of TM, and I'll get all excited; offer me the choice between TM and GP, and it'll always be TM.
20 
 Thumb up
2.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Spirio
Austria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I‘d play TM, but I always would play GP if there is a choice
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Space Trucker
Germany
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gaia Project is already "broader" and more variable than Terra Mystica, Fire/Ice included. More different mechanics, more things to do, more sandboxy.

Adding extra mechanics to Gaia Project will not work as easily as in TM. Anything extra attached to Gaia might work, but might very well also render it too long and/or too broad.

The problem from an expansion selling/designing perspective is, there's just so much in the box already, that could have been content of an expansion. The variable board, a lot of tech tiles, the solo mode, 14 very asymmetric factions,...
(for example Scythe added the factions 6-7 with the first expansion, could still add backside factions, have now added a variable board as another expansion,...)

For Gaia I could very well imagine a smaller expansion or mini expansions with additional or changed components, like either additional or another set of boosters, tech tiles, final scorings, federation tokens, maybe slightly different map tiles,... (all considering that drastic changes will most likely also shift the balance in the game).




Jack Spirio wrote:
sabgfan wrote:
Because not everyone thinks GP is an infinitely better game.
but objective it is

Depends on personal prefences, objectivly better is clearly not the case in my view.
Longer and more complex is not objectivly better, and neither are more broad and sandboxy (which one could also call less straightforward, less elegant/clear) and also some players will actually prefer TM for being more cutthroat (some player surely like the harder blocking and fight for hexes in TM, as it feels interactive and meaningful). Space vs. fantasy themes are obviously also a matter of taste.

Maybe you post just misses a .



Anyway, a well made Gaia expansion would surely be cool.
17 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark O'Reilly
United Kingdom
Chester
Cheshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think we as gamers should just rejoice that these two masterpieces exist.
21 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Ataei
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Mitch and his group of players were very helpful in their playtests of my Merchants expansion.

mitcharf wrote:
While I think GP is better, I don't think it's a direct upgrade in all ways. There are several things that are just different, rather than better or worse.

Personally, I hope that both games continue to be maintained in parallel. I'd love a GP expansion. And having playtested both upcoming TM expansions, I'm very excited to buy them both when they're released. I'm always happy to play TM or GP -- they're both fantastic games.


Thank you very much Mitch!
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Kern
msg tools
This thread feels like the nerdy version of Game of Thrones where we are the peasants advocating on behalf of our chosen lords.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Ataei
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
IncandescentBro wrote:
Why do they keep making Terra Mystica expansions when Gaia Project is infinitely a better game?
The last thing I want is another expansion for TM. My group has been interested in a Gaia Project expansion since the base game was released. Honestly confused as to why they keep trying to update a game that is basically a first edition of Gaia.


Buy the Merchants of the Sea expansion that I designed for Terra Mystica... if Merchants is successful, sells well, and is well-received/reviewed then things might change.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JamesWolfpacker wrote:
IncandescentBro wrote:
Why do they keep making Terra Mystica expansions when Gaia Project is infinitely a better game?
The last thing I want is another expansion for TM. My group has been interested in a Gaia Project expansion since the base game was released. Honestly confused as to why they keep trying to update a game that is basically a first edition of Gaia.


Buy the Merchants of the Sea expansion that I designed for Terra Mystica... if Merchants is successful, sells well, and is well-received/reviewed then things might change.

While I recognize that many people like TM, I haven't played it, and don't plan on buying it. I'm not sure I like this statement (though maybe it was made tongue-in-cheek).

It sounds like "To prove that you want me to make an expansion for THIS game, buy my unrelated expansion to this other game that is similar, but isn't this game. If you don't buy that expansion, you've shown you really don't want anything for this game."
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Ataei
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
sigmazero13 wrote:
While I recognize that many people like TM, I haven't played it, and don't plan on buying it. I'm not sure I like this statement (though maybe it was made tongue-in-cheek).

It sounds like "To prove that you want me to make an expansion for THIS game, buy my unrelated expansion to this other game that is similar, but isn't this game. If you don't buy that expansion, you've shown you really don't want anything for this game."


If I have been designing and playtesting Merchants for about 1.5 years, what makes you think that I don't already have a version for Gaia Project?

Keep in mind that publishing and selling games is a business. I am very grateful that Helge, Jens, and Frank have agreed to publish a 3rd party expansion to the current #11 overall game which was formerly as high as #2 or #3 (I'm not sure of the highest ranking). They have taken a significant risk here. This doesn't happen that often. The only other high profile games that I can think of that have done this are Caverna with The Forgotten Folk and Scythe with Rise of Fenris and My Little Scythe. I am not sure, but I think Twilight Imperium 4 also used a lot of the fan expansion ideas from TI3.

Would you take a risk on a 2nd similar project without yet knowing if the 1st one pays off? Real life business does sometimes play push your luck, but it's not a good idea in the game industry unless your name is Hasbro.
19 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oedipussy Rex
msg tools
JamesWolfpacker wrote:
The only other high profile games that I can think of that have done this are Caverna with The Forgotten Folk and Scythe with Rise of Fenris and My Little Scythe.


AD&D Fiend Folio was fan submissions.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JamesWolfpacker wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
While I recognize that many people like TM, I haven't played it, and don't plan on buying it. I'm not sure I like this statement (though maybe it was made tongue-in-cheek).

It sounds like "To prove that you want me to make an expansion for THIS game, buy my unrelated expansion to this other game that is similar, but isn't this game. If you don't buy that expansion, you've shown you really don't want anything for this game."


If I have been designing and playtesting Merchants for about 1.5 years, what makes you think that I don't already have a version for Gaia Project?

Keep in mind that publishing and selling games is a business. I am very grateful that Helge, Jens, and Frank have agreed to publish a 3rd party expansion to the current #11 overall game which was formerly as high as #2 or #3 (I'm not sure of the highest ranking). They have taken a significant risk here. This doesn't happen that often. The only other high profile games that I can think of that have done this are Caverna with The Forgotten Folk and Scythe with Rise of Fenris and My Little Scythe. I am not sure, but I think Twilight Imperium 4 also used a lot of the fan expansion ideas from TI3.

Would you take a risk on a 2nd similar project without yet knowing if the 1st one pays off? Real life business does sometimes play push your luck, but it's not a good idea in the game industry unless your name is Hasbro.

I think I see what you are saying, but I guess the part that feels off to me is that it assumes the success level of expansions for two separate (even if similar) products will be related.

IE, it's possible that the TM expansion could bomb and an expansion for GP would be wildly successful (or vice versa).

I'm not saying TM is bad or the expansion won't work, just that it feels like basing work on one thing on the work of something else just seems like a false connection. It would be like Fantasy Flight Games deciding on whether to make an expansion for Twilight Imperium (Third Edition) based on the success of Runewars: Banners of War. TI3 and Runewars had many things in common (and many differences, of course, maybe more than TM and GP have), but success in one game didn't equate to success in the other.

I won't be buying a TM expansion, because I don't have TM and don't plan on getting it. I would gladly buy a GP expansion, though. Whether or not comparing a TM expansions success to a GP expansion's success depends not on the overlap of the games themselves, but the overlap of the ownership of the games (IE, those who have both). I can't really say what that is, but I'm sure there are a lot of people like me who only own GP.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you are getting at, though

(As for TI4 using a lot of "fan expansion" stuff from TI3, I don't think that's the case, at least not from what I've seen)
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mario
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sigmazero13 wrote:
JamesWolfpacker wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
While I recognize that many people like TM, I haven't played it, and don't plan on buying it. I'm not sure I like this statement (though maybe it was made tongue-in-cheek).

It sounds like "To prove that you want me to make an expansion for THIS game, buy my unrelated expansion to this other game that is similar, but isn't this game. If you don't buy that expansion, you've shown you really don't want anything for this game."


If I have been designing and playtesting Merchants for about 1.5 years, what makes you think that I don't already have a version for Gaia Project?

Keep in mind that publishing and selling games is a business. I am very grateful that Helge, Jens, and Frank have agreed to publish a 3rd party expansion to the current #11 overall game which was formerly as high as #2 or #3 (I'm not sure of the highest ranking). They have taken a significant risk here. This doesn't happen that often. The only other high profile games that I can think of that have done this are Caverna with The Forgotten Folk and Scythe with Rise of Fenris and My Little Scythe. I am not sure, but I think Twilight Imperium 4 also used a lot of the fan expansion ideas from TI3.

Would you take a risk on a 2nd similar project without yet knowing if the 1st one pays off? Real life business does sometimes play push your luck, but it's not a good idea in the game industry unless your name is Hasbro.

I think I see what you are saying, but I guess the part that feels off to me is that it assumes the success level of expansions for two separate (even if similar) products will be related.

IE, it's possible that the TM expansion could bomb and an expansion for GP would be wildly successful (or vice versa).

I'm not saying TM is bad or the expansion won't work, just that it feels like basing work on one thing on the work of something else just seems like a false connection. It would be like Fantasy Flight Games deciding on whether to make an expansion for Twilight Imperium (Third Edition) based on the success of Runewars: Banners of War. TI3 and Runewars had many things in common (and many differences, of course, maybe more than TM and GP have), but success in one game didn't equate to success in the other.

I won't be buying a TM expansion, because I don't have TM and don't plan on getting it. I would gladly buy a GP expansion, though. Whether or not comparing a TM expansions success to a GP expansion's success depends not on the overlap of the games themselves, but the overlap of the ownership of the games (IE, those who have both). I can't really say what that is, but I'm sure there are a lot of people like me who only own GP.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you are getting at, though

(As for TI4 using a lot of "fan expansion" stuff from TI3, I don't think that's the case, at least not from what I've seen)


I believe the point of James is pretty much "if the expansion I designed for TM is a success it would prove that I'm capable of creating good content for a praised game", which in the eyes of the designers/publishers is something good; would you let someone work on another of your games knowing that their previous attempt failed?

Of course it can always go both ways, but once the success is proven it will make you less wary of allowing someone to collaborate again on another project .
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mrnesss wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
JamesWolfpacker wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
While I recognize that many people like TM, I haven't played it, and don't plan on buying it. I'm not sure I like this statement (though maybe it was made tongue-in-cheek).

It sounds like "To prove that you want me to make an expansion for THIS game, buy my unrelated expansion to this other game that is similar, but isn't this game. If you don't buy that expansion, you've shown you really don't want anything for this game."


If I have been designing and playtesting Merchants for about 1.5 years, what makes you think that I don't already have a version for Gaia Project?

Keep in mind that publishing and selling games is a business. I am very grateful that Helge, Jens, and Frank have agreed to publish a 3rd party expansion to the current #11 overall game which was formerly as high as #2 or #3 (I'm not sure of the highest ranking). They have taken a significant risk here. This doesn't happen that often. The only other high profile games that I can think of that have done this are Caverna with The Forgotten Folk and Scythe with Rise of Fenris and My Little Scythe. I am not sure, but I think Twilight Imperium 4 also used a lot of the fan expansion ideas from TI3.

Would you take a risk on a 2nd similar project without yet knowing if the 1st one pays off? Real life business does sometimes play push your luck, but it's not a good idea in the game industry unless your name is Hasbro.

I think I see what you are saying, but I guess the part that feels off to me is that it assumes the success level of expansions for two separate (even if similar) products will be related.

IE, it's possible that the TM expansion could bomb and an expansion for GP would be wildly successful (or vice versa).

I'm not saying TM is bad or the expansion won't work, just that it feels like basing work on one thing on the work of something else just seems like a false connection. It would be like Fantasy Flight Games deciding on whether to make an expansion for Twilight Imperium (Third Edition) based on the success of Runewars: Banners of War. TI3 and Runewars had many things in common (and many differences, of course, maybe more than TM and GP have), but success in one game didn't equate to success in the other.

I won't be buying a TM expansion, because I don't have TM and don't plan on getting it. I would gladly buy a GP expansion, though. Whether or not comparing a TM expansions success to a GP expansion's success depends not on the overlap of the games themselves, but the overlap of the ownership of the games (IE, those who have both). I can't really say what that is, but I'm sure there are a lot of people like me who only own GP.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you are getting at, though

(As for TI4 using a lot of "fan expansion" stuff from TI3, I don't think that's the case, at least not from what I've seen)


I believe the point of James is pretty much "if the expansion I designed for TM is a success it would prove that I'm capable of creating good content for a praised game", which in the eyes of the designers/publishers is something good; would you let someone work on another of your games knowing that their previous attempt failed?

Of course it can always go both ways, but once the success is proven it will make you less wary of allowing someone to collaborate again on another project .

Ah, that's a good point. I wasn't looking at it from that perspective

I think I'm seeing things correctly now
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Ataei
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Hey Mario. NAILED IT!

Scott, that's ok. Perhaps someone in your local group has Terra Mystica and is willing to play it with you.

People still play both Agricola and Caverna and have different preferences. Both are still good games just like Terra Mystica and Gaia Project.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JamesWolfpacker wrote:
Hey Mario. NAILED IT!

Scott, that's ok. Perhaps someone in your local group has Terra Mystica and is willing to play it with you.

Alas, lately my local group is mostly "me and my daughter and sometimes my brother"

To be fair, I wouldn't mind trying TM by any means, if I was playing with a group that happened to have it. The main reasons I was intrigued by GP were the space theme and the automa rules built-in.

Thanks for the responses to my concerns, I think I get it now
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Northampton
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sigmazero13 wrote:
It sounds like "To prove that you want me to make an expansion for THIS game, buy my unrelated expansion to this other game that is similar, but isn't this game. If you don't buy that expansion, you've shown you really don't want anything for this game."
He's already got a similar expansion for GP that he's working on... but if the TM expansion tanks it's unlikely that the publisher would go ahead with the GP one.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Ataei
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
sigmazero13 wrote:
Alas, lately my local group is mostly "me and my daughter and sometimes my brother"

To be fair, I wouldn't mind trying TM by any means, if I was playing with a group that happened to have it. The main reasons I was intrigued by GP were the space theme and the automa rules built-in.

Thanks for the responses to my concerns, I think I get it now


Sure, no problem. Have fun in the meantime.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.