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Subject: Mat Werewolf online game over: Evil wins in a final two player ending. Good game all! rss

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John Valvard
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Due to several requests after playing matwolf at BGG con, I am going to (finally) attempt an online version.

You do NOT need to have played the f2f version. If you have done so, you will be more familiar with the mechanics, but since I have to adjust things to make it work online, this may as much a bane as a benefit.

The game will run in early August. I'm thinking Monday 12th as a start, but this far out will take requests.

Game will be intended for 17-19 players.

Complexity: Moderate high. Will use the Cassandra physics system for item passing and acquisition.

Link to the previous rules thread here:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1864535/

but updated rules will be posted in this thread in due course.

Rules in blue are alerts for people who have played f2f - these are the differences you should be aware of.
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John Valvard
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
First thing to note – if you have played f2f you will be familiar with the ‘placemats’. In this game we shall use items called badges as an equivalent. As is the case with the face to face game, some elements rely on players being honest (not passing antidote when poisoned, for example) so I will be repeatedly emphasizing the rules about those to prevent accidental infractions.

Teams:
Evil:
3 Wolves (collective nightkill and chat)
Some auxes

Good:
Seer (wolf seer, view for Wolf/Non-wolf)
Some auxes
Villagers


The unspecified auxes are named in the complete roleset below, but their exact abilities and their alignment is not given.
It is possible that a villager could be Evil
It is possible that a seer could be Evil (though one Wolf Seer is guaranteed Good)
All Wolves and Wolfcubs will be Evil.
Do not assume that you know exactly what a role does by its name (Witch, Doctor etc). The ability will be thematic according to the name and the alignment, but may differ from your preconceptions.

This is a non-standard werewolf game in the following ways:
• Each player will always have a badge, changed daily. Each badge will detail a role and a bonus
• Badges will be visible items and a summary list of which player has which badge will be given daily.
• Role reveal is via badges (see below). Reveal is generally reliable and will be role but not alignment.
• Role actions are restricted to players who have the correct rolename on their badge, or a role benefit (star) as the badge bonus.
• Night actions are anonymously grouped.
• There will be tradeable items
• There will be income and vote strength adjustments, based on badges
However, there is guaranteed no recruitment. Private chats cannot be secretly overheard.

Badge detail
Each badge will have two pieces of information:
• Rolename
• Bonus: * (role), $ (income) or X (vote)

Daily routine
Dawn:
• Mod announces any players who have died in the night.
• Players receive status and item updates in private chats.
• All badges of living players are returned.
Day:
• Each player selects a badge. Selecting the same badge on consecutive days blocks income. There will always be one more badge than there are players.
• Voting
• Item acquisition and/or use.
• Item passing (only allowed during the day. No passing between Dusk and Dawn).
Dusk:
• Player receiving most votes is killed (items may affect this)
Night:
• Actions due to roles or items submitted in Cassie
o A player can use any item they have, irrespective of badge
o A player can ONLY use role abilities if their badge has their rolename or a star bonus
o Pooled actions: Items and roles that give night actions are set in groups. Each group may only have one target, which must be agreed within the group; targeting a player uses Junk.

Rolenames
Total roleset, detailed on the player badge items. Each badge will show one rolename.
3 wolves
1 Seer
1 Bodyguard
2 Cultists
1 Dragon
1 Hunter
1 Pirate
1 Seer
1 Witch
5 Villagers

+ 1 Villager badge


Badges and player deaths
When a player dies, one of the badges is removed from the game.
The role on the removed badge will be the same as the player’s role (unless the role or an item permit or require otherwise or the appropriate role is no longer available).
• If the player is wearing a badge with the role to be removed, that badge is removed (no choice).
• If a different (living) player’s badge is to be removed, the living player will keep any benefits associated with their original badge until next dawn.
• If there are several badges which could be removed, the dying player may choose which to remove (players are asked to make this determination early in the day each day after badges have been taken)
• If there is *no* badge which shows the dying player’s role, the badge currently held by the player is removed (no choice). This can potentially cause a cascade effect of future mis-reveals.
In this way, unless there is some effect to the contrary, the total living roleset will be accurately reflected in the set of badges still in the game.

Badge Bonus
There are three families of bonus:
1) Star (*)
A player holding a ‘star’ badge can use their role actions even if the name on their badge does not match their role.

2) Income ($)
A player holding an ‘income’ badge will receive +2 cards from the randomized deck at dawn.

3) Vote power (X)
A player holding a ‘vote power’ badge will have +1 strength vote that day, and -1 vote tally

Items:
Each player will begin with one item, and will receive a basic income of one card each Dawn.
Players will gain additional items due to ‘income’ badge bonus or due to the effect of other items.
Items will be either ‘Junk’ or ‘Treasure’. Most starting cards and income will be Junk (90% or so).
‘Junk’ is relatively worthless in itself, but if you accumulate a collection of 6 Junk you can trade it with the moderator for a random Treasure. This trade can only be implemented at Dusk or Dawn. Junk is also used when targeting (see below).
‘Treasure’ is usually, but not always, beneficial. Some treasures will confer an additional night or day action. Some treasure can allow reaction to negative events (such as conferring a one use lynch-toughness). Some treasure may be cursed, in which case it might not be possible to pass it.
Items are not public information. Most items can be passed – an item will state if it may not be passed. If you want to show another player your item, you have to pass it to them (obviously, you can’t prove possession of an unpassable item in this way). Whether or not they then give it back is entirely up to them. You are free to describe an item in thread, but you may not quote from the item description, you must paraphrase. If you want to make something up, feel free. If you want to design an item, you can post a suggestion in your modchat and I may bring that item into existence, possibly modified or renamed. You probably won’t get it, since it will then just get added to the random treasure deck, but you might.

If a treasure allows you to make a public action during the day, you must post in thread
[Use treasure: <treasure name>]
Then quote in bold exactly the text associated with the treasure item, inserting target name as appropriate.
Once you do this, you cannot undo it, obviously. Anyone faking that will be immediately modkilled.

For example, if lj had a lightning rod which could target a player for an insta-kill, it would have the description

Example Item wrote:
Lightning Rod: Day interrupt action
may be passed
To use, post: "Instant kill <name> during the day. This kill cannot be blocked in any way and the target may no longer post. Death reveal will be at Dusk."

To use it, lj might post
Using an Item wrote:
[Use treasure: Lightning rod]
Instant kill RoyalApe during the day. This kill cannot be blocked in any way and the target may no longer post. Death reveal will be at Dusk.

In this event, Royal’s death would be resolved at Dusk (for the purposes of badge removal/role reveal etc), but he would be asked not to post any more from the time lj killed him.

In f2f, reactions to this sort of attack are easy to implement, because everyone is paying attention at the same time, and I can for the same reason give a role reveal immediately. Because online games have to take into account player (and moderator) availability, death will only be resolved at Dusk and reaction items that can block one-off day items WILL NOT BE IN THE GAME. If someone has a public insta-kill, it will not be blockable and other players can assume that the targeted individual is indeed dead. Use of an item that will have a material impact on lynch are permitted any time up to lynch, though instakilling the lynch leader one minute before lynch happens is not likely to win you friends among the other players.
Accidental public use of a day-only item at night will result in the item being destroyed with no effect.
Deliberate public use of a day-only item at night with the sole intention of destroying it and/or winning friends and influencing people without attacking someone may be penalized at the mod’s discretion. Don’t do it.

Here are some example items:
Example Treasure Card wrote:
Assassin's Knife: Night action item
may be passed
Night action C: You cause target player to be poisoned.

Example Treasure Card wrote:
Silver Shield: Automatic reaction to being nightkilled
may be passed
If you are targeted for Wolfkill, you will use the Shield (announced at Dawn):
If only one Wolf took part in the kill, you will survive.
If more than one Wolf took part in the kill, the Shield will not save you.


Poison and Antidote
Poison and Antidote are special types of Treasure.
Poison cannot ordinarily be passed. Owning an item called 'poison' means that you have been poisoned, and I shall remove it from your holdings when I catch up. There may be an item or role that confers immunity to poison; it is possible that a player with such an item or role would be allowed to pass poison, but only if explicitly told so.

If you are holding Antidote and are poisoned, you will automatically use Antidote to counter the poison. One dose of Antidote eliminates one dose of Poison. If you are not poisoned, you may pass Antidote to another player.
DO NOT PASS ANTIDOTE IF YOU ARE POISONED unless you have ‘spare’ Antidote (for example, if have been poisoned x1 but have two Antidotes, you may pass one of them). I may not be online to prevent this so I have to rely on players being observant of the rules.

If at any Dusk or Dawn you have been continuously poisoned for more than 24 hours, you die. If at any time during that, however briefly, you had enough Antidote to become unpoisoned, the clock resets to that moment. Poison is calculated before Antidote when passed during the night, all actions being processed at Dawn. Day passes are processed at Dusk in the order they occur.
Poisoning example wrote:
Javal is poisoned by lj as a N2 action.
His poisoning begins from Dawn 3.
If he receives no Antidote, he will die at Dusk 4.
If on N3 he is sent an Antidote and also given 1 more poison, he will still have been continuously poisoned since Dawn 3.
If during Day 4, he is given an Antidote by another player, and five minutes later is given a cursed cup which poisons him, the clock would reset to Dusk 4 as the start of his poisoning.
(the Antidote gift is resolved at Dusk prior to the Cursed Cup, because it was received first, but both are processed at Dusk 4)

Night actions
You may have one or several different night actions, conferred either by role or by one or more items.
Role actions will only be effective if the player’s badge either has the player’s role listed on it, or has a star bonus. Important exception to this: At the start of the game, one wolf is deemed the 'elder' wolf and can perform nightkill without a wolf or star badge. If the elder wolf dies, the second wolf becomes elder wolf, and so on. It remains the case that blocking actions or items could prevent the kill.
Elder Wolf is the ONLY role that always gets its night action. Seer will still need either a Seer badge or a star bonus to get a view.
Item actions will always be implemented, irrespective of badge. A player may not opt out, even if the group target is undesirable.
Night actions are grouped, and will have anonymous chatrooms for each group.
Grouping will not necessarily relate to alignment and certainly not to type of action.
There will be at most one viewing ability per group.
Wolfkill is always a group to itself.
In a night action group, players may bid to affect the group’s target, spending Junk to dictate who the target is. Zero-value bids are permitted. If one target candidate receives the outright highest bid for a group that will be the target and the Junk bid towards that will be spent; Junk bid on other targets will not be spent. If there is a tie in total bid value, the target nominated by the most players will be the target. If still a tie, no player will be targeted.
Only those bidding on the eventual target will actually spend the Junk they bid.
A player whose role-action will not happen (no star or correct rolename) can still bid to influence who gets targeted by the action.
The group will not be locked for chat, but players are only permitted to post ‘Target <name> <bid>’. Discussion in any other form is not permitted in an action group.
Bidding more Junk (collectively across all groups to which a player has access) than a player actually owns will be penalized.
The result of each group action will be posted in the respective group chat as ‘Yes’, ‘No’ or ‘Blocked’. This relates solely to the viewing action of the group. If there is no viewing action taken, the result announced will be random (30%, 60%, 10%). All actions simultaneously target; blocking actions are implemented first. Views are still reported appropriately even if the viewer dies that night.

Example group action wrote:
lj (wolf seer), Beowulf (bodyguard) and RoyalApe(assassin knife item) all have night action C.
Lj wants to view RoyalApe, so posts ‘Target RoyalApe 0’ into groupchat C
Beowulf doesn’t care, since whoever is targeted will be protected, so he doesn’t bid.
RoyalApe does not want to poison himself, so he posts ‘Target Javal 1’ to take the target off himself. Bidding 0 would also work, but would lead to no action by any of the players due to a tie.
lj is OK with this view and doesn’t counter, not wanting to spend 2 Junk to outbid Royal or 1 Junk to get no view at all.

At Dawn, mod post in group C will read ‘No’.
RoyalApe will have spent 1 Junk to achieve control of the action.
This means that (in the absence of other interference), Javal was viewed as not wolf (though only lj will know that), was protected by bodyguard (but only Beo will know) and was poisoned (only Royal will know that, and Javal will be told at Dawn that he has gained 1 unit of poisoning).



Things you could (mechanically) do but should avoid (in addition to the usual)
Passing a ‘do not pass’ item. Some items (bought with junk or received as income) will say ‘do not pass this if you receive it from a pass’. They have to be passable, since the purchaser is meant to be able to pass them, but the recipient should *not* pass them. Please be careful with this sort of thing. Read item descriptions fully.

Passing Antidote if you are poisoned (unless you have spare Antidote). Antidote can be freely passed by a healthy person, but must not be passed by a poisoned person who would not have enough Antidote to treat themselves after passing it. As above, I can’t restrict this in Cassie and may not be online to take away Antidote and poisoned status at the time Antidote is received. This means that even if you know you are going to die anyway, you cannot pass Antidote and leave yourself poisoned. (For example if you are suffering 3 units of poison and about to die, so that 1 Antidote is immaterial, you still can't pass it.)

Passing Items at night. I really don’t want to go through all items flipping them from passable to unpassable each Dusk and back again each Dawn. Please just don’t pass stuff at night. I'll aim to remind you.

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John Valvard
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Some details on interactions between roles and items

I don't know how many items will be acquired during the game - probably single digits or low double digits.
There are upwards of 40 items now in Cassie for the game, and treasure will be randomly selected as needed from that bank of items. Much will therefore not be used, but I have tried to design them for maximum clarity and interest. Similarly, I have designed a slew of additional roles which will not be in this run of the game, but the templates have been put in Cassie in the event that the game runs again (or for use in f2f). The clarifications that follow may or may not be relevant to this run of the game, as they depend on what items and roles are in a game at any time, but I need a system for transparently resolving any conflicts where two or more abilities trigger regarding the same thing.


Reveals and views
There may be items or role abilities that can mess with reveals or views.
If so, the role/item will indicate the priority level in the event of a clash.
Priority 1 takes precedence over all others
Priority 2 takes precedence over all but priority 1 etc


Item theft
There may be items or role abilities that can take some or all of another player's items or junk.
In the case of conflict, this will be the tie-break method
1) Specific type of theft (eg stealing Junk only). The more limited, the earlier resolved.
2) Role-granted ability
3) Item-granted ability

Theft actions can only target material owned by a player at Dusk.
Theft actions cannot remove any one-use item that is being used that night.
Theft of a multi-use item will take it after the owner got a chance to use it.


Ability blocking
If multiple blocking abilities interact, all blocks are implemented simultaneously, and before any other type of abilities are considered.
Example:
A blocks B
B blocks A and C
Result: A and B and C are all blocked.


What's all this stuff about rooms?
Essentially, the rooms are just a way to break up the day cycle and allow players, as far as possible, to run the item side of the game without needing me to implement things.

All players start each day in the Badge Room
- Take a badge.
- Once you leave the Badge room, don't change or drop your badge.
When you are set with a badge, head to the Day Room
- Spend the day here.
- Pass stuff to other people, have them pass stuff to you.
- You may never just drop anything; you can only get rid of something by passing it.
- Never pass anything that says you may not pass it.
If you collect 6 Junk and want to trade for a treasure, head to the Key Room
- In the Key Room you can drop 6 Junk and take a key of your choice (honesty being the best policy!)
- Then head back to the Day Room.
If you have a Key, head to the matching Locked Room
- In the Locked Room, drop your key and pick up the treasure item. Even if you don't want it - by entering the Locked Room you commit to taking whatever treasure you find there.
- Then head back to the Day Room.

At Dusk, I'll put all players out of the Day Room and into limbo, so that you can no longer pass items to each other.

At Dawn I'll put all players back into the Badge Room, and remove all Badges from you - pick a new Badge that doesn't match your previous day's Badge.


{...and the Night Action Rooms?
If you have a night action, either from your role or from a Treasure, it has a letter assigned to it (A to F)
You will be admitted to a private chat room for that letter.
You are anonymous in the chat room. You may only post in the form
'Target X (Y)'
where X is the name of the player you want targeted and Y is the amount of Junk (minimum 0) you wish to bid towards that.

Importantly, you may not be alone in the Action Room - multiple roles and items share each Room, though most or all of these Items may not be in the game (yet).

Despite potentially having multiple players with actions, each room only gets one target - whichever player has most Junk bid towards them. In the case of tie, whichever player has most people bidding towards them. If still tied, there is no target for that letter that night.
The room target is targeted by ALL the actions of that letter.
Junk that you bid is only spent if the bid is successful, but you may never unbid and you may never bid more in total than you have.

Each room will, at Dawn, receive a 'Yes/No/Blocked' response posted in it. If there is no view ability being used, this will be randomized (mostly 'no').

You are permitted to reference in thread
- your night action room's target
- the amounts bid
- the action room's letter
- how many players there are
- the 'view' result
Please do not reference any grammatical or misuse issues.
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Player List According to Cassandra:
annab
Beowulf
BerenCamlost
Dake
dejojam1
Farren
Irina_Phoenix
kuchick
MajaiofDreams
nirvolo
Opps
ortho_
PaperF
Rhanddom
Ryagic
Syntax3rror
whirlingdervish

17 players are signed up.

To sign up for this game go to
http://cassandrawerewolf.com/game/2212666
 
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hibou
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With Trigun being this lock consensus good read for so many people, I find it really bizarre that she's alive. There's a threshold where if she's still alive she should probably be murdalated.
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Born to be a king, I ask one thing in return: a front seat to watch Earth burn.
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
So in! This is, hands down, my favorite variant to play in person.
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Abernathy
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
I just signed up to collect Junk and find out my good reads are yet again fellow auxes on Cassandra.
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Abernathy
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Ryagic wrote:
I just signed up to collect Junk and find out my good reads are yet again fellow auxes on Cassandra.

Alternatively, I just signed up to walk away with Javal's role cards 3 nights in a row to return them to him the next day, on Cassandra.
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Patrick Hill
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Oh this was fun!
 
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
PIRATE KING arrrh
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Send In The Clowns!
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
whirlingdervish wrote:
PIRATE KING arrrh
[Vote Whirl] [Vote Nightfall]
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John Valvard
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From first to last, from last to first, werewolf means *not* being cursed.
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
whirlingdervish wrote:
PIRATE KING arrrh
So you would prefer pirate to dragon? OK.
 
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Javal wrote:
whirlingdervish wrote:
PIRATE KING arrrh
So you would prefer pirate to dragon? OK.

I mean, I'm definitely eyeing the Dragon role, cause it's in the role list. Pirate King just has a special place in my heart.
 
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Mike Beiter
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Ive heard some great stories about this.

I'll give it a whirl!
 
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John Valvard
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From first to last, from last to first, werewolf means *not* being cursed.
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Glad to have you on board!
 
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Damien Mitchell
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Question, how to Good guys have auxes? surprise
 
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Anna B.
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Raven1207 wrote:
Question, how to Good guys have auxes? surprise
I think Javal means Good Specials other than Seer.
 
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John Valvard
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From first to last, from last to first, werewolf means *not* being cursed.
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Raven1207 wrote:
Question, how to Good guys have auxes? surprise
Possibly my terminology is now outdated...
Max roles = Wolf (evil), Seer (good)
Aux roles = Sorc/cultist/witch etc (evil), hunter/bodyguard/martyr etc (good).
Essentially any Good non-seer power role and any evil non-wolf role.
 
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
I have absolutely no idea how this is supposed to work but when have I ever let that stop me?
 
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Farren Bronaugh
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Cruelty to wolves - making them eat poisoned villagers.

In.
 
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Dake Jimson
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
you deserve me, javal.
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John Valvard
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From first to last, from last to first, werewolf means *not* being cursed.
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Dake wrote:
you deserve me, javal.
You flatter me
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John Valvard
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From first to last, from last to first, werewolf means *not* being cursed.
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Still looking for 2-4 more players for a Monday start...
 
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Anna B.
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Javal wrote:
Still looking for 2-4 more players for a Monday start...
Still hoping this gets delayed a week or two... whistle
 
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Mike Beiter
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
I'd love it if it started after a week.
I have a vacation week that will limit a lot of my availability.
 
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John Valvard
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Re: Mat Werewolf online
Unfortunately pushing this later will mean it starts getting too close to the start of term, meaning I can't actually be around for lynch every day. Really sorry, but I have to stick to 12th unless this causes mass desertions.
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