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Hellboy: The Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Ranged penalties rss

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Stevie P
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So one of the people in my group is an avid firearms hobbyist.

His point ... if there is a room so packed with creatures no one else can fit into the space it should be easier to hit something not harder.

I said it is harder to hit the specific creature and he said maybe IF it was in back but overall easier to hit something.

I shrugged and said well I guess it’s more like the movies where everyone shoots a million bullets and no one gets hit. Those are the rules which go both ways so downgrade your dice and roll.
 
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Ray Guimond
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steprov wrote:
So one of the people in my group is an avid firearms hobbyist.

His point ... if there is a room so packed with creatures no one else can fit into the space it should be easier to hit something not harder.

I said it is harder to hit the specific creature and he said maybe IF it was in back but overall easier to hit something.

I shrugged and said well I guess it’s more like the movies where everyone shoots a million bullets and no one gets hit. Those are the rules which go both ways so downgrade your dice and roll.


it's a board game about a demon who can summon forth the old gods, who fights alongside a human-fish hybrid, an incorporeal ghost in a suit, and a woman with pyrokenesis. The gun rules are where you have a problem?
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Stevie P
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LOL. Excellent point. I wasn’t as quick as you.

My bud is an action pistol range control officer who sets up similar scenarios with pop up targets. Since this fantasy is based on our world with modern weapons and this rule was something he has a lot of experience with, yeah he had to voice his opinion. I can see his point but that is not how the rules were written.

Unless he wants to work on some house rules (he won’t) we will play by the rules.

I was just curious how other folks felt about the ranged penalties.

Me personally I think since the rules go both ways ... doesn’t bother me.
 
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The ranged penalties work because the game is balanced around them. And it works.

That said, yeah, you shouldn't be able to miss the conqueror worm when you shoot at it!
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Dave J
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Instead of thinking of it as a miss. Think of it as a graze or hitting the worms hard tusk or something.
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Rich Moore
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steprov wrote:
So one of the people in my group is an avid firearms hobbyist.

His point ... if there is a room so packed with creatures no one else can fit into the space it should be easier to hit something not harder.

I said it is harder to hit the specific creature and he said maybe IF it was in back but overall easier to hit something.


Yes, it is meant to simulate cover or something or someone blocking your specific target. I’d agree with your friend if all you were doing were trying to hit something, anything, in a crowd. But I also derive my knowledge from fictional media.
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Carsten
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"The only thing you are going to see, is the burning hand of overdue justice." - Lobster Johnson
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“There are only three forms of high art: the symphony, the illustrated children's book and the board game.” - Saga
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You do not roll for hitting and making damage twice in this game. It's all in one roll. So it is never just hitting, but also inflicting damage. This can lead to strange situations.
Hitting something in an area full of enemies should be easier. Hitting something vulnerable while a horde of enemies is running at you should be harder. This is how I try to make sense of it.
The same goes for the grenade. It should be easier to make a lot of damage in a full area. But each enemy shields the others, resulting in less damage for every single enemy. I still would houserule the grenade.

dork_jedi wrote:
it's a board game about a demon who can summon forth the old gods, who fights alongside a human-fish hybrid, an incorporeal ghost in a suit, and a woman with pyrokenesis. The gun rules are where you have a problem?

So you do not care about physics or logic in all fictional stories? This is a very silly argument. I love fictional worlds with there own sets of rules. Still these rules should be consistent.
Boardgames must have some freedom to make things work or make them balanced. This is something I would agree with.
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Rick P
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I suppose you can take a creature's resilience to mean that it can only be damaged when hit at certain spots (so the higher its resilience, the fewer or smaller its weak spots), and different creatures can have different weak spots. So when there's several creatures running (and jumping, as frogs tend to do) around the room, it's harder to hit your target's weak spots (you aim for the head and hit a vampire instead). And I think I read somewhere that frogs are social creatures, so I wouldn't be surprised if their monster counterparts are sluggish when alone, but become more frenzied and agitated when in a knot!
 
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Jaakko E
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My peeve is the difference between ranged and melee.

Ranged attacks are logical for enemies and players. The players downgrade their attack dice for difficult situations and players upgrade their defence dice if enemies are in similar difficult situation. This is kinda "same thing", just from two different sides, as enemies do not roll.

With ranged - Players:
Dice are downgraded for characters between the player and the target.
Dice are downgraded for having more characters than one at the target area.

With ranged - Enemies:
Defending player gets upgrade for characters between the enemy shooter and him.
Defending player gets upgrade for characters in his area.

However, the melee attacks seem to be just bad for the player and always advantage for the enemies. It does not seem logical at all. Player gets shafted when attacking OR defending, if there are more than one enemy in his area. And he does NOT get any bonuses automatically from any allies in his area. Allies do not even offset the negative from enemies in any way. Does this assume that "Enemies are always using action cubes to help their friends, for free" or something like that?

With melee - Players:
Player downgrades attack die for each additional enemy in his area

With melee - Enemies:
Player downgrades defence die for each additional enemy in his area.


To be honest, in my first few games I did not even remember this rule for melee. In bad situation, you get 5 frogs with you in same area, you are kinda shafted as you cannot shoot and cannot melee with 5 downgrades (or was the maximum downgrades 1 per dice, assuming no upgrades available). At least this could be like in Batman where any allies in the same area would offset the negatives (although in Batman, meleeing never gets negatives).


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Edit: This might be a situation where I would use some house rule to keep things more even:

A) Just remove both downgrades (for attack and defence rolls) for players concerning melee attacks.

B) Extra enemies in the same area do not cause downgraded melee attack rolls for players (unless specified in enemy card) but defence rolls are still downgraded if there are more than one enemy in the area.

C) Extra allied agents in the same area just offset any extra enemies. I.e. "automatic" assists whenever extra enemies would cause downgrades in attack or defence die.

D) Extra allied agents in same area upgrade melee attack and defence die automatically (offsetting extra enemies). However, this is what assisting with cubes should do.



 
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P Lamberg
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Played for the firt time yesterday and it was the tutorial twice.

The downgrade penalties hit really hard when the boss arrived and it's first boss behavior card was to summon another two frogs.

Roger had the boss and two frogs in his area, Lobster had two frogs in his area. Even after I got rid of the two frogs from Lobsters back, it was really hard trying to hit any enemy in Roger's area with the pistols. And Roger had even harder time to hit anything with melee, because his meter downgrades the melee dice after every hit. At some point he was down to just the Effect dice.

What we realized a turn too late, was that Roger should have evaded he basic frogs and take the boss with him to another area. Both agents would have had way easier attacks.

Still, the situation was pretty realistic if you consider that your shooting into an area with you ally in it. But I'd houserule the melee d/u-grades differently too for the next time.
 
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