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Subject: Rating so low. Great game destroyed rss

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Steven
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Lol rateing on this game getting so low. Kickstarter people really killing this game.To be honest, publisher need resolve this mess they made by themselves.
No communication to Kickstarter people!
Should be made into retail only game.

Great game maybe destroyed by the publisher themselves before it hit the market.
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Jérôme
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If I could rate how Cranio is handling the Kickstarter campaign, a 1 comes to mind, except that I expect them to deliver, albeit a bit late and with components not as luxurious as promised.

But on BGG you don’t rate campaigns, you rate games. I haven’t fully played it yet (only round 2 out of 4, at the Spiel demo) but I can guarantee that this game is not ‘awful, defies game description’.

In my opinion it’s pathetic to rate an unreleased game with a 1 only because the publisher is messing things up.
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Gert Delen
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I don't know, I still see a rating of 7.3 at the moment. I gave it a rating of 8 after two plays purely based on gameplay. I love this game. If components will be at EGG-level (The gallerist, Escape Plan, ...) I will upgrade it to a 9. If components turn out bad, then I will substract a point and give it a 7.

I will not mix myself in the discussion which is going on at the moment. I think mistakes are made, but man seriously there are bigger problems in the world. It's just a hobby made of cardboard pieces right?

For what it is worth, I am not a backer. But probably at some point this game might end up on my shelf.
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Tilou
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Hyperbole much?
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Sander Schippers
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I wonder though.
I see alot of new accounts just to rate this game...
 
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Stephen Parkes
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Gert12555 wrote:
I think mistakes are made, but man seriously there are bigger problems in the world. It's just a hobby made of cardboard pieces right?


That sir, is a logical fallacy. Unless you are literally only worrying about cancer, war and a possible no-deal Brexit, the point is a bit silly.

Anyway, I think this whole campaign is a real shame for the designers. Cranio have made an absolute arse of this campaign which will ultimately reflect in the ratings, when the game may end up being great (which I hope it is, I'm a backer, albeit one who was sucked in by the promise of fulfillment by April...).

I didn't get massively on board with the complaints about component quality (although the wobbly videos from Cranio didn't reassure me about much) but the business about shipping and Yuki is pretty weird. Whoever Yuki is, it's now pretty clear that he didn't receive his game via the usual distribution channels, so Cranio have been (deliberately) disingenuous in suggesting he did. And if that is the case, why are they seeking to deceive us?
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Justin
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StarryVeck wrote:
Gert12555 wrote:
I think mistakes are made, but man seriously there are bigger problems in the world. It's just a hobby made of cardboard pieces right?


That sir, is a logical fallacy. Unless you are literally only worrying about cancer, war and a possible no-deal Brexit, the point is a bit silly.

Anyway, I think this whole campaign is a real shame for the designers. Cranio have made an absolute arse of this campaign which will ultimately reflect in the ratings, when the game may end up being great (which I hope it is, I'm a backer, albeit one who was sucked in by the promise of fulfillment by April...).


I agree with Gert. Kickstarter backers a absolutely brutal. I backed this game and I am still fine. Yes, they had problems. To be honest I have NEVER experienced a kickstarter that was 100% on schedule and 100% of promises fulfilled right. ITS KICKSTARTER! That's part of the risk! I am still waiting on some KS stuff that is over a year late. If you don't want to deal with a few rocky waves this shut your mouth and wait for it to hit retail shelves.

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Sander Schippers
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Then they used the wrong marketing strategy here.
 
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Rafal Kowalski
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RedRaider9000 wrote:
StarryVeck wrote:
Gert12555 wrote:
I think mistakes are made, but man seriously there are bigger problems in the world. It's just a hobby made of cardboard pieces right?


That sir, is a logical fallacy. Unless you are literally only worrying about cancer, war and a possible no-deal Brexit, the point is a bit silly.

Anyway, I think this whole campaign is a real shame for the designers. Cranio have made an absolute arse of this campaign which will ultimately reflect in the ratings, when the game may end up being great (which I hope it is, I'm a backer, albeit one who was sucked in by the promise of fulfillment by April...).


I agree with Gert. Kickstarter backers a absolutely brutal. I backed this game and I am still fine. Yes, they had problems. To be honest I have NEVER experienced a kickstarter that was 100% on schedule and 100% of promises fulfilled right. ITS KICKSTARTER! That's part of the risk! I am still waiting on some KS stuff that is over a year late. If you don't want to deal with a few rocky waves this shut your mouth and wait for it to hit retail shelves.



If a company can't deliver on product promised then they should shut their mouth and go straight to retail.
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Stephen Parkes
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RedRaider9000 wrote:
shut your mouth


You shut your mouth.

But seriously, it was one of the main thrusts of their campaign, 'rapid fulfilment'. And this one didn't not happen because of unforeseen issues, but because they tacked on a load of stretch goals and seemingly weren't where they said they were along product development when the campaign was live anyway. This was knackered from the start, not because something unforeseen happened after the campaign ended.

I agree about KS waits in general, I'm used to stuff taking longer than projected, and you know, whatever. But at the same time why can't we expect estimated delivery dates to be better?

Anyway, the thrust of my issue is not with what has happened necessarily, but with Cranio's piss poor communication about it all. And that aspect is intrinsic to the KS experience.
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Steven
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if it was a one-man band. Everyone can give that guy/woman a break. They just started out and doing everything themselves.

But we talking about Craino a large team/resource of a professional publishing company with years of experiences in the gaming market.

Yes, they really should stick to retail only.
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Jérôme
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+1 for no problems with delays.

“+1” means “I agree with”, followed by a brief recap of previous post. So, I agree that a delay isn’t a problem.

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Sander Schippers
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I normaly agree with no delay problems.

But they used it as there main KS campaign strategy.

The game whas ready to produce right after campaign ended. That is what they told us in a Youtube video message.

Because of this strategy the following points were not allowed.

- No grouppledges
- No retailpledges
- No time to make 1 big box with the exclusive stuff.
That is what they told us. 1 box of the same size for every expansion.
So that they could produce faster and keep there 6 months promise.

And maybe i forget some more things.

But all this sacrifices for there sale strategy to deliver the game 6 months earlier then Essen has backfired now.
And on top of it they changed pretty much some components.


Put that with all the promises they make and the silence after it makes this whole KS campaign a big mess.
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Patrick Schuette
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Rednas79 wrote:
I wonder though.
I see alot of new accounts just to rate this game...


I don't know how this game managed to pull it off, but we are veering into "Captain Marvel on Rotten Tomatoes" territory. Somehow this small group of seemingly dissatisfied individuals with a massive axe to grind has almost completely hijacked any and all discussion about this game, turned the KS into a toxic waste dump, and is now making their way to BGG to spread the love.

I'll refrain from repeating myself (again), but I sincerely hope Cranio learns the right lessons from this debacle. The KS has had its issues and I am waiting on the final game in hand before I say anything about the game itself. However, this campaign has been nowhere near as bad as the axe-grinders claim. Delays happen due to circumstances beyond anyone's control. Component changes sometimes need to happen due to practicality or cost. The communication could have been better, but it won't dissuade me from backing another Cranio KS.
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Darrell Goodridge
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StarryVeck wrote:
Gert12555 wrote:
I think mistakes are made, but man seriously there are bigger problems in the world. It's just a hobby made of cardboard pieces right?


That sir, is a logical fallacy. Unless you are literally only worrying about cancer, war and a possible no-deal Brexit, the point is a bit silly.

Anyway, I think this whole campaign is a real shame for the designers. Cranio have made an absolute arse of this campaign which will ultimately reflect in the ratings, when the game may end up being great (which I hope it is, I'm a backer, albeit one who was sucked in by the promise of fulfillment by April...).

I didn't get massively on board with the complaints about component quality (although the wobbly videos from Cranio didn't reassure me about much) but the business about shipping and Yuki is pretty weird. Whoever Yuki is, it's now pretty clear that he didn't receive his game via the usual distribution channels, so Cranio have been (deliberately) disingenuous in suggesting he did. And if that is the case, why are they seeking to deceive us?


So, in your mind, there are only 3 things more "serious" than a late Kickstarter campaign? Wow.
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Steven
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To be honest it the only way for the people to make cranios to listen to them.
Lower the bgg rating to the point for publisher to do somthing about it.
At least speak to us.
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Stephen Parkes
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Cardboardjunkie wrote:
StarryVeck wrote:
Gert12555 wrote:
I think mistakes are made, but man seriously there are bigger problems in the world. It's just a hobby made of cardboard pieces right?


That sir, is a logical fallacy. Unless you are literally only worrying about cancer, war and a possible no-deal Brexit, the point is a bit silly.

Anyway, I think this whole campaign is a real shame for the designers. Cranio have made an absolute arse of this campaign which will ultimately reflect in the ratings, when the game may end up being great (which I hope it is, I'm a backer, albeit one who was sucked in by the promise of fulfillment by April...).

I didn't get massively on board with the complaints about component quality (although the wobbly videos from Cranio didn't reassure me about much) but the business about shipping and Yuki is pretty weird. Whoever Yuki is, it's now pretty clear that he didn't receive his game via the usual distribution channels, so Cranio have been (deliberately) disingenuous in suggesting he did. And if that is the case, why are they seeking to deceive us?


So, in your mind, there are only 3 things more "serious" than a late Kickstarter campaign? Wow.


No. That is not what I said, nor what I intended.
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Brad Keusch
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They had it out at origins, I didn't follow it that closely after backing it so I dunno what's changed or not but it looks pretty great as is on the table
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Becq
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Most KS games tend to have unusually high ratings (resulting from idiot fanbois rating the game without having played it) until they hit retail, at which people who bought the game having expected the Best. Game. Evar! from the ratings play it and submit more measured ratings, bringing the average down.

I expect Barrage to have a very different pattern, with the ratings decreasing steadily as idiot hatebois (?) downrate the game based only on their negative impressions from the KS campaign without having actually played it; once the game hits the table, I believe the ratings will trend upward again.

I haven't rated the game yet; the only people who should have done so are those who have played demos or those who have played the online version. You can tell from the reviews themselves (if not the overall numerical rating) which ones are which.
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Darrell Goodridge
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StarryVeck wrote:
Cardboardjunkie wrote:
StarryVeck wrote:
Gert12555 wrote:
I think mistakes are made, but man seriously there are bigger problems in the world. It's just a hobby made of cardboard pieces right?


That sir, is a logical fallacy. Unless you are literally only worrying about cancer, war and a possible no-deal Brexit, the point is a bit silly.

Anyway, I think this whole campaign is a real shame for the designers. Cranio have made an absolute arse of this campaign which will ultimately reflect in the ratings, when the game may end up being great (which I hope it is, I'm a backer, albeit one who was sucked in by the promise of fulfillment by April...).

I didn't get massively on board with the complaints about component quality (although the wobbly videos from Cranio didn't reassure me about much) but the business about shipping and Yuki is pretty weird. Whoever Yuki is, it's now pretty clear that he didn't receive his game via the usual distribution channels, so Cranio have been (deliberately) disingenuous in suggesting he did. And if that is the case, why are they seeking to deceive us?


So, in your mind, there are only 3 things more "serious" than a late Kickstarter campaign? Wow.


No. That is not what I said, nor what I intended.


Quote:
Unless you are literally only worrying about cancer, war and a possible no-deal Brexit,


It is exactly what you said. But I won't derail any further.
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Stephen Parkes
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Cardboardjunkie wrote:
StarryVeck wrote:
Cardboardjunkie wrote:
StarryVeck wrote:
Gert12555 wrote:
I think mistakes are made, but man seriously there are bigger problems in the world. It's just a hobby made of cardboard pieces right?


That sir, is a logical fallacy. Unless you are literally only worrying about cancer, war and a possible no-deal Brexit, the point is a bit silly.


So, in your mind, there are only 3 things more "serious" than a late Kickstarter campaign? Wow.


No. That is not what I said, nor what I intended.


Quote:
Unless you are literally only worrying about cancer, war and a possible no-deal Brexit,


It is exactly what you said. But I won't derail any further.

Seems you’ve caught me in a bit of a bad mood so I will take the time to explain to you why you are wrong and why the quote you presented was disingenuous. This will sound condescending, I imagine, but not sure how it can be presented so it doesn’t. Perhaps what follows will be of use to you.

The section in bold shows the full context of my original remark, a remark which admittedly relied on a small degree in inference from the reader. Because the previous poster had suggested that worrying about a boardgame purchase/KS campaign was somehow invalidated by the fact that there are bigger problems in the world, I took this remark to its extreme conclusion in order to make a point (there is actually a name for this logical fallacy, where someone tries to belittle one point by suggesting something else is more important but I forget what it’s called now). Anyway, as the previous poster suggested that the complaints were somehow invalidated by there being more serious issues in the world, I implied that by this logic the only things one could justifiably worry about were the most extreme problems in the world (i.e. problems that will always, by definition be ‘bigger’), and the ones I cited were the first things that came to mind. Perhaps your list would be different, and that would be fine. I wholeheartedly disagree with this position as it is patently absurd. I can give you a raft of examples to prove this point if you wish.

I wouldn’t think it would need pointing out but unsurprisingly I have many things that I worry about, as does everyone else. Some would be regarded as more important than the state of the Barrage KS. Many would be regarded as much less important. So what. I am not restricted only to worrying about the biggest problems the world has to offer, nor some arbitrary level of bigger/more serious problems that is to my knowledge, not universally acknowledged.

Quoting me out of context serves only to make you look either deliberately disingenuous or a little bit lacking in reading comprehension ability. Perhaps you were reading in a hurry, I don’t know. A brief apology would be the honourable thing to do and would put this to rest to my satisfaction.

Thanks
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Taran Wender
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StarryVeck wrote:
Cardboardjunkie wrote:
StarryVeck wrote:
Cardboardjunkie wrote:
StarryVeck wrote:
Gert12555 wrote:
I think mistakes are made, but man seriously there are bigger problems in the world. It's just a hobby made of cardboard pieces right?


That sir, is a logical fallacy. Unless you are literally only worrying about cancer, war and a possible no-deal Brexit, the point is a bit silly.


So, in your mind, there are only 3 things more "serious" than a late Kickstarter campaign? Wow.


No. That is not what I said, nor what I intended.


Quote:
Unless you are literally only worrying about cancer, war and a possible no-deal Brexit,


It is exactly what you said. But I won't derail any further.

Seems you’ve caught me in a bit of a bad mood so I will take the time to explain to you why you are wrong and why the quote you presented was disingenuous. This will sound condescending, I imagine, but not sure how it can be presented so it doesn’t. Perhaps what follows will be of use to you.

The section in bold shows the full context of my original remark, a remark which admittedly relied on a small degree in inference from the reader. Because the previous poster had suggested that worrying about a boardgame purchase/KS campaign was somehow invalidated by the fact that there are bigger problems in the world, I took this remark to its extreme conclusion in order to make a point (there is actually a name for this logical fallacy, where someone tries to belittle one point by suggesting something else is more important but I forget what it’s called now). Anyway, as the previous poster suggested that the complaints were somehow invalidated by there being more serious issues in the world, I implied that by this logic the only things one could justifiably worry about were the most extreme problems in the world (i.e. problems that will always, by definition be ‘bigger’), and the ones I cited were the first things that came to mind. Perhaps your list would be different, and that would be fine. I wholeheartedly disagree with this position as it is patently absurd. I can give you a raft of examples to prove this point if you wish.

I wouldn’t think it would need pointing out but unsurprisingly I have many things that I worry about, as does everyone else. Some would be regarded as more important than the state of the Barrage KS. Many would be regarded as much less important. So what. I am not restricted only to worrying about the biggest problems the world has to offer, nor some arbitrary level of bigger/more serious problems that is to my knowledge, not universally acknowledged.

Quoting me out of context serves only to make you look either deliberately disingenuous or a little bit lacking in reading comprehension ability. Perhaps you were reading in a hurry, I don’t know. A brief apology would be the honourable thing to do and would put this to rest to my satisfaction.

Thanks


This may just be my own cluelessness, but I seriously sometimes can't tell if some people's comments are due to a lack of reading comprehension or trolling. I'm guessing Cardboardjunkie is trolling? Hmm..
 
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Bill Hollebeke
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Gert12555 wrote:
If components will be at EGG-level (The gallerist, Escape Plan, ...) I will upgrade it to a 9. If components turn out bad, then I will substract a point and give it a 7.


Why would anybody ever rate a game based on game components or publisher conduct? A game should be rated based only on the quality of the design and gameplay in my opinion.

This is exactly the kind of thing that makes the game ratings on BGG more and more non-relevant as the years goes by.

Whatever happened to the saying "Don't judge a book by it's cover".
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Sander Schippers
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Maybe they should add a catagory to rate publishers.
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Rednas79 wrote:

I see alot of new accounts just to rate this game...


Indeed, there are aroud 20 accounts created yesterday giving a 1 rating...

Looks like someone is on a quest to bring down the rating of this game.
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