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Subject: New No-Reveal 9er 3 rss

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whirlingdervish wrote:
cvb2009 wrote:
beardandglasses wrote:
I will be in and out today...various commitments throughout the day...

Just let us know who your wolf partner is before you go and we'll be sure to lynch them first! whistle

Wow, I immediately think you're evil. laugh

whirlingdervish wrote:
I really hope I read Beard as good off an emoticon and am correct. laugh

SNAPREADS GO!

I'm pretty proud of these two reads. Self-back-pat. cool
 
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Dake Jimson
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Way to finish before the 4th, y'all!

This is as good as it can go for good. Nice work, guys.
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Hobie
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whirlingdervish wrote:
whirlingdervish wrote:
cvb2009 wrote:
beardandglasses wrote:
I will be in and out today...various commitments throughout the day...

Just let us know who your wolf partner is before you go and we'll be sure to lynch them first! whistle

Wow, I immediately think you're evil. laugh

whirlingdervish wrote:
I really hope I read Beard as good off an emoticon and am correct. laugh

SNAPREADS GO!

I'm pretty proud of these two reads. Self-back-pat. cool

Great read.
 
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Dake wrote:
Way to finish before the 4th, y'all!

This is as good as it can go for good. Nice work, guys.

Thanks, Dake, for running this (and for putting me on "the list")! I really did enjoy it (although no reveals are a very unique thing...)
 
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I'll probably put another one up.

A question though.

Would you rather be playing the classic no-reveal 9er, or is there still more to explore here? I'd just as happily run the classic 9er.
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Thanks for doing all of the dusking and dawning, mono!
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Thanks team! Sorry I was so mia. Work sucked this week. Off to Dice Tower Con!

Good game! Thanks mods!
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Dake wrote:
I'll probably put another one up.

A question though.

Would you rather be playing the classic no-reveal 9er, or is there still more to explore here? I'd just as happily run the classic 9er.

I'm interested in trying again, if people are up for it.

I think there's a metagame right now, which is the idea that early Daryld/Barry claims might be pro-village. Evil so far has tried some things, but their N1 NK strategy so far has been to ignored a claimed Barry and go Priest hunting.

I don't think the game has been solved in the sense that there are strategic choices that haven't been explored so far, or anything is clearly good or bad. And plus, all of what's happened in the first 3 games is small sample size, so any or all of the tactics can be wrong but lucky, or right but unlucky.


Overall, I think the standard NR 9er probably creates a richer D2 battle, which is why I'd give the nod to that set. But, many of us have played that set a million times. This one is fresher.
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What do you think, Dake?
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I will do it but someone has to holler when it's starting.
 
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My new thing:

If I'm in a CC battle, I'm giving myself 15 posts per game day.

There is a Vander exception. If you are one of those guys, I will break the restriction. arrrh


I'm only posting this here because I want this to be on the record so that it's not tied up in a game when I deploy it.
 
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Dake wrote:
I'll probably put another one up.

A question though.

Would you rather be playing the classic no-reveal 9er, or is there still more to explore here? I'd just as happily run the classic 9er.

I'd try this one again.
 
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Dake Jimson
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i think priest hunting is maybe a mistake? probably should leave him for the corpse eater to mess with.

even though barry and daryld don't seem powerful, just being a named good is good enough to be pretty powerful in this weak set. i think.

yeah, i want to keep running this a few more times.

it's just the classic 9er is a near perfect game and i'd be just as happy to mod that.
 
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Dake Jimson
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cvb's only path to victory was to convince the village that deciding between darylds was incorrect. i think the required him selling that ortho was the eater.

still it would have taken 2 mislynches and then win against ortho in a final 3. about as uphill as it gets.
 
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/lurker

I think one of the reasons that the standard 9er is so popular is that it lends itself well to an all-claim on d2, but not so much on d1 (goods would like the seer to live long enough to get a self-chosen view, and maybe catch a wolf). The way this one has played out it's more like "hey should we all claim d1? Just kidding let's not do that" and so I'm not sure there's been as much of a chance to explore all the strategies naturally. Anyway ignore me.
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i'd be interested to know if good would consistently win a D1 all-claim.

but it's not really any fun for the players. or maybe it is. i don't know.

i think a single amateur hunter claim on D1 is possibly ideal? but that is based on my feelings and not anything tangible.
 
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improving on the 9er also isn't really a goal. just trying to create something with similar virtues but a different feel.
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Dake wrote:
i'd be interested to know if good would consistently win a D1 all-claim.

but it's not really any fun for the players. or maybe it is. i don't know.

i think a single amateur hunter claim on D1 is possibly ideal? but that is based on my feelings and not anything tangible.

My feeling is that if wolves want to go priest hunting N1, both Barry/Daryld claiming D1 is extremely pro-good.

I have not been a wolf, but if I were I would be murdering any uncountered Barry/Daryld N1. I'd count on Corpse Eater to mess with the relevant N1 priest view and go from there into the crucial D2.
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Dake wrote:
i'd be interested to know if good would consistently win a D1 all-claim.

but it's not really any fun for the players. or maybe it is. i don't know.

i think a single amateur hunter claim on D1 is possibly ideal? but that is based on my feelings and not anything tangible.

Not sure about the eventual win percentage but it just seems clearly correct to me for hunters to claim immediately.
What seems more relevant, a guy who you're not sure if you can trust claims a role in final three that could easily be dead already, and has a 50% chance of being useless even if legit, or someone gets either cleared or put in a counterclaim battle D1? It's not like real hunters even have a ton of final three value in a normal niner, let alone these guys.
I'm fine with all claims D1, but I don't consider it as interesting as a normal 9er. I'd still sign up for this set though just because it's a nice small game and it doesn't seem badly balanced.
 
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i think the wolves want to kill a hunter on N1, and yet i also believe a hunter should voluntarily claim on D1. shouldn't those two things be at odds?
 
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Dake wrote:
i think the wolves want to kill a hunter on N1, and yet i also believe a hunter should voluntarily claim on D1. shouldn't those two things be at odds?

No.

There are lots of situations in other games where it's right for seers to claim even if they expect to be NKed immediately for example.
Another example that could happen in this set is the decision to claim to escape lynch or not and then get lynched. Even if they're always nking you it's still better than being lynched. The logic is different for what we're arguing but it's an example of why that isn't true on principle.
 
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Vanderscamp wrote:
Dake wrote:
i think the wolves want to kill a hunter on N1, and yet i also believe a hunter should voluntarily claim on D1. shouldn't those two things be at odds?

No.

There are lots of situations in other games where it's right for seers to claim even if they expect to be NKed immediately for example.
Another example that could happen in this set is the decision to claim to escape lynch or not and then get lynched. Even if they're always nking you it's still better than being lynched. The logic is different for what we're arguing but it's an example of why that isn't true on principle.

it's right for seers to claim when they are at risk of NK because they have info. why do daryld and barry want to claim other than reducing the lynch pool? especially since i think a daryld or barry kill is ideal for N1.
 
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i feel like there's incentive to not claim and also to claim. which is what we're looking for.
 
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I'd be open for another round of you will tolerate a relative noob again
 
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Dake wrote:
Vanderscamp wrote:
Dake wrote:
i think the wolves want to kill a hunter on N1, and yet i also believe a hunter should voluntarily claim on D1. shouldn't those two things be at odds?

No.

There are lots of situations in other games where it's right for seers to claim even if they expect to be NKed immediately for example.
Another example that could happen in this set is the decision to claim to escape lynch or not and then get lynched. Even if they're always nking you it's still better than being lynched. The logic is different for what we're arguing but it's an example of why that isn't true on principle.

it's right for seers to claim when they are at risk of NK because they have info. why do daryld and barry want to claim other than reducing the lynch pool? especially since i think a daryld or barry kill is ideal for N1.

I'd say there are two reasons.



#1 - like you said, reducing the lynch pool. But also giving good a voice they can trust. I think it might be bigger than you give it credit for. Games in which good lynches an evil D1, I think it's a massive bump to good's win%.

But D1 is the day when good knows nothing, the reads are the worst, and everyone is running around like a goof.

If good has two seats who are lock good, that's a huge improvement on a game where no one trusts anyone.

This village might just end up lynching oldhoss the wolf where they might not have before. D1 clears are really good!



#2 - evil either allows the clears, or else they don't get any GS get-out-of-lynch cards.

When I'm evil, I love having the outlet of being able to claim GS when I'm about to die. OR, if at the end of some day, the actual GS claims in LL, I can counterclaim while holding the high ground.

The early Barry/Daryld claims take that all away from evil.

If I am Team Good, I want a fake B/D claimant to have to claim on D1 and get 1.5 days of content to assess. I don't want a claimant 15 minutes out from lynch.

Early claims make it way, way less attractive for evil to claim these roles. And being able to claim them is part of evil's toolset in any roleset.

And it matters even more in a No Reveal set. There's no chance of a Barry getting N1 NKd unclaimed and some evil stepping into the claim and winning.
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