Recommend
45 
 Thumb up
 Hide
85 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Sands of the Past - Release rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Sebastian H.
Germany
Weilburg
Hessen
flag msg tools
Evil Overlord
badge
Evil Overlord
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
One thing that wouldn't be too hard to add are 3 additional activation cards which contain the 3 generic activations for each type.

Then each monster only needs to be assigned to one of the generic activations, and there needs to be a mechanic which chooses between the monster specific activations and the generic ones (for example a die roll).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sebastian H.
Germany
Weilburg
Hessen
flag msg tools
Evil Overlord
badge
Evil Overlord
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For reference, here are the 3 generic activation instructions:

Type: Brawler

Quote:
EFFECT_BRAWLER_1,"Each attack gains +1 damage."
BRAWLER_1_MINION_0,
"Action: Engage the closest hero.
Action: Attack a hero."
BRAWLER_1_MASTER_0,
"Action: Engage the closest hero.
Action: Attack a hero."

EFFECT_BRAWLER_2,"Each attack performed by a master gains 2 surges."
BRAWLER_2_MINION_0,
"Action: Engage the closest hero.
Action: Attack a hero."
BRAWLER_2_MASTER_0,
"Action: Engage the closest hero.
Action: Attack a hero."

EFFECT_BRAWLER_3,"Apply +2 Speed to each {Monstername}."
BRAWLER_3_MINION_0,
"Action: Engage the closest hero.
Action: Attack a hero."
BRAWLER_3_MASTER_0,
"Action: Engage the closest hero.
Action: Attack a hero.
Action: Each hero in line of sight of this monster tests π. Each hero who fails is Stunned."

Type: Skirmisher

Quote:
EFFECT_SKIRMISHER_1,"Heroes cannot voluntarily suffer fatigue or exhaust cards during this activation."
SKIRMISHER_1_MINION_0,
"Action: Engage the closest hero.
Action: Attack the adjacent hero with the lowest might.
Action: If within 2 spaces of a hero, perform a move action and retreat."
SKIRMISHER_1_MASTER_0,
"Action: Engage the closest hero.
Action: Attack the adjacent hero with the lowest might.
Action: If within 2 spaces of a hero, perform a move action and retreat."

EFFECT_SKIRMISHER_2,"Each attack gains Pierce X, where X is equal to the number of defense dice rolled."
SKIRMISHER_2_MINION_0,
"Action: Engage the closest hero.
Action: Attack the adjacent hero with the highest total Health.
Action: If within 2 spaces of a hero, perform a move action and retreat."
SKIRMISHER_2_MASTER_0,
"Action: Engage the closest hero.
Action: Attack the adjacent hero with the highest total Health.
Action: If within 2 spaces of a hero, perform a move action and retreat."

EFFECT_SKIRMISHER_3,"After this activation, each {Monstername} performs a move action and retreats."
SKIRMISHER_3_MINION_0,
"Action: Engage the hero within 4 spaces of this monster with the least Health remaining.
Action: Engage the closest hero.
Action: Attack the adjacent hero with the least Health remaining."
SKIRMISHER_3_MASTER_0,
"Action: Engage the hero within 4 spaces of this monster with the most damage suffered.
Action: Engage the closest hero.
Action: Attack the adjacent hero with the most damage suffered."

Type: Ranged

Quote:
EFFECT_RANGE_1,"Each attack gains +3 Range. If the total range result exceeds the distance to the target, that attack also gains Pierce 1."
RANGE_1_MINION_0,
"Action: Attack the hero within 6 spaces of this monster with the highest Speed.
Action: If within 2 spaces of a hero, perform a move action, retreat, and immediately end this activation.
Action: Spot the closest hero.
Action: Attack the closest hero. Then retreat."
RANGE_1_MASTER_0,
"Action: Attack the hero within 6 spaces of this monster with the highest Speed.
Action: If within 2 spaces of a hero, perform a move action, retreat, and immediately end this activation.
Action: Spot the closest hero.
Action: Attack the closest hero. Then retreat."

EFFECT_RANGE_2,"Each attack gains +1 surge. For each surge a monster does not spend, it gains 1 movement point."
RANGE_2_MINION_0,
"Action: Spot the closest hero.
Action: Attack the closest hero. Then retreat.
Action: If within 2 spaces of a hero, perform a move action and retreat."
RANGE_2_MASTER_0,
"Action: Spot the closest hero.
Action: Attack the closest hero. Then retreat.
Action: If within 2 spaces of a hero, perform a move action and retreat."

EFFECT_RANGE_3,"Each attack performed by a minion gains Pierce 2."
RANGE_3_MINION_0,
"Action: Spot as many heroes as possible.
Action: Attack the hero within 3 spaces of this monster with the most Health remaining.
Action: If within 2 spaces of a hero, perform a move action and retreat."
RANGE_3_MASTER_0,
"Action: Spot the closest hero.
Action: Attack the hero within 3 spaces of this monster with the lowest awareness.
Action: If within 2 spaces of a hero, perform a move action and retreat."
2 
 Thumb up
10.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sebastian H.
Germany
Weilburg
Hessen
flag msg tools
Evil Overlord
badge
Evil Overlord
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And here is a list with all monster types and their generic activation types (source Valkyrie):

Quote:
Basegame:

Zombie: None
Goblin Archer: Ranged
Cave Spider: Skirmisher
Flesh Moulder: Ranged
Bargehst: Brawler
Ettin: Brawler
Elemental: None
Merriod: None
Shadow Dragon: Brawler

Lair of the Wyrm:

Fire Imps: Ranged
Hybrid Sentinel: Brawler

Labyrinth or Ruin:

Goblin Witcher: Ranged
Volucrix Reaver: Skirmisher
Carrion Drage: Brawler
Arachyura: Brawler

The Trollfens:

Harpy: Brawler
Plague Worm: None

Shadows of Nerekhall:

Rat Swarm: Skirmisher
Changeling: Brawler
Ironbound: Brawler
Ynfernael Hulk: Brawler

Manor of Ravens:

Bandit: Ranged
Wraith: Ranged

Mists of Bilehall:

Bone Horror: Ranged (2+3)
Reanimate: Brawler
Broodwalker: Brawler

The Chains that Rust:

Marrow Priest: Skirmisher
The Dispossessed: None
Shambling Colossus: Brawler

Oath of the Outcast:

Razorwing: Skirmisher
Beastman: Skirmisher
Bane Spider: Ranged

Crown of Destiny:

Giant: Brawler
Chaos Beast: Ranged
Lave Beetle: Ranged

Crusade of the Forgotten:

Golem: Brawler
Medusa: Ranged
Sorcerer: Ranged (1+2)

Guardians of Deephall:

Crypt Dragon: Ranged
Dark Priest: Ranged
Wendigo: Skirmisher

Visions of Dawn:

Manticore: Ranged
Oger: Skirmisher
Troll: Brawler

Bonds of the Wild:

Kobold: None
Hellhound: None
Deep Elf: Brawler

Treaty of Champions:

Skeletton Archer: Ranged
Crow Hag: Ranged
Demon Lord: Ranged

Stewards of the Secret:

Ferrox: Skirmisher
Blood Ape: Brawler
Naga: Ranged

Shards of Everdark:

Ice Wyrm: Brawler
Dark Minotaur: Brawler
Shade: Skirmisher
3 
 Thumb up
10.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sebastian H.
Germany
Weilburg
Hessen
flag msg tools
Evil Overlord
badge
Evil Overlord
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thinking a bit more about this: We might even come up with our own generic activations in the future, which could then also be added to certain monster types to diversify the activations even more.

It would be an easy way to extend Road to Peril by only adding 3 activation cards, a reference list and mechanic to switch between standard and expansion activations.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Morten Helgeland
Denmark
flag msg tools
This is sooo awesome! As soon as me and my wife is done with our current playtrhough of RAMV and The Shadow Rune campaign, we will try out the Heirs of Blood with this coop variant. RAMV is great, but I feel it is too easy, as we are winning every scenario without much work. Maybe because we play with only 2 characters, but most of the time we forget that 2player bonus with healing / extra action anyways.

I have one question. What would it take to add this system to other expansions? The monster activations are already made, so it is "only" the Agenda cards that need to be added? It is easier said than done, but I was just curious how to expand this further.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guido Hansen
Germany
flag msg tools
Descent 2nd Edition Community Rules Reference Guide
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Great that you want to Road to Peril a try. Making it challenging even for experienced players was one of the major goals of this coop variant. Be prepared to struggle!

To integrate additional expansions Agenda cards and Quest Perils have to be created (and most importantly play-tested).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Morten Helgeland
Denmark
flag msg tools
Ah yes, playtesting is ofc quite important! As a game-dev myself, I understad this! If this coop variant get a lot of traction, it could be used for community camapaigns as well! I'm super excited for this!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Binkley
msg tools
mb
Morten,
I have also been thinking about how to expand this and it can be done. You can use Redjak’s objectives as a starting point for the agenda cards. The real hard part that I’ve run into is knowing the quests well enough to tweak Redjaks agendas to make them more difficult and make sense, knowing how long a quest should last to make the peril cards, and understanding the mechanics of the quest enough to build the quest perils. All of this can be done of course but it takes effort and play testing as Sadgit mentioned.

It makes me appreciate all this even more.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guido Hansen
Germany
flag msg tools
Descent 2nd Edition Community Rules Reference Guide
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Our approach was similar:

1. Start with Redjak's Quest objective cards as a basis.
2. Start with a standard Start-Minor-Minor-Quest-Major-Major-Deadly Peril card setup (peril deck III, heroic/legendary difficulty)
3. Carefully read the quest description and modify Agenda and Peril deck accordingly.
4. Play the quest with 4 heroes and see what works and what does not. Modify Peril deck and Agenda.
5. Adjust Peril deck for other difficulties.

All Quest perils have been designed by Erik. No idea how he did it

From my experience it is not possible to design good Agenda cards and estimate the length of a typical game without actually playing the scenario. There are just too many small details that can mess things up.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Burigo
Italy
Belluno
flag msg tools
designer
badge
“Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.” - Granny Weatherwax
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DelphiDie wrote:
It would be an easy way to extend Road to Peril by only adding 3 activation cards, a reference list and mechanic to switch between standard and expansion activations.
Yep, this should be sufficient, even if a bit fiddly (one more "die roll" and cross-reference the monster archetype).
I'm assuming Lieutenants don't have a specific archetype (or at least not those with already 6 different activations, like Lord Merick).

I'd prefer having the monster activation resolved in a single die roll, if possible.
However, there would be a bunch of monsters that will go from having 4 activations to 7 (all expansions included). Maybe another design tool is needed there.
Consider that in the design process we early moved from a single card per activation to all monster activations on a single large card. This choice has been made to reduce the number of cards to print and the fiddlyness during setup.

The "activation randomization problem" has been a difficult task.
The main issue is that we wanted to both randomize the monster group (with equal probability) and their specific activation box (with equal probability in the context of a single monster group possible activations).
We solved it with the bag of different-colored 6-sided dice.

In order to keep this mechanism, I think we'd need to:
- upgrade to a d8,
- design activation cards or a reference sheet with the 9 activation boxes (Skirmisher 1, Skirmisher 2, Skirmisher 3, Brawler 1, etc.)
- on each Monster AI card, keep the given activation as they are, but fill it up with die roll results for the additional 3 activation from the monster's role (to this scope, 3 lines of text in the left column of the front side would be sufficient).

Examples
The Barghest (brawler archetype) card would become (roll a d8).
1: Brawler 1
2: Brawler 2
3: Brawler 3
4: Feeding Frenzy
5: Pack Signals
6: Piercing Snarls
7-8: Reroll

The Elemental (no archetype) card would become (roll a d8).
1-2: Mantle of Winds
3-4: Chilling Tide
5-6: Burrowing Retreat
7-8: Consuming Flames, if you have Lair of the Wyrm; or Range 1, otherwise.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Burigo
Italy
Belluno
flag msg tools
designer
badge
“Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.” - Granny Weatherwax
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sadgit wrote:
All Quest perils have been designed by Erik. No idea how he did it

laugh Nothing extraordinary, really.

You'll notice that there are some similar recurring effects, and also that not all quest perils effect are equally balanced (I didn't even try and I also enjoy that additional uncertainty).

In general, I read the fluff text and tried to capture the "spirit" of the quest. I also tried to tie at least one of the 3 possible perils to one of the unique rules of that specific encounter.

The main unknown variable is how well or how bad are the heroes faring when they hit the Quest peril, especially if the effect references a particular event or map feature.
So, more often than I wanted to, I had to step down a notch and make some effects more generic and less exciting.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sebastian H.
Germany
Weilburg
Hessen
flag msg tools
Evil Overlord
badge
Evil Overlord
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A possible way to do this would be the following:

Create 3 new cards with the type based monster activations. This would be pretty easy in comparison, and wouldn't require a large amount of work to print.

Then there are only 2 things left to do:

1. Reference:

- Either add the monster type onto the existing cards monster cards. The downside is, that this will require a reprint of all cards, and it will also be the case, if there is ever another expansion of this type.

- Create a reference card which lists the monsters and their type. The upside is not reprint required, and easy to expand. The downside is another thing to track/look up. But I guess you will be familar with the monsters and their types pretty quick (ranged is almost self explanitory, and brawler/skirmisher is even almost interchangeable).

2. Activations:

- Your proposed D8 system, which would be usable, but if I understand it corretly it will also require redesigning the monster cards and a reprint.

- A second dice throw. It would be pretty simple. On activation of a monster roll the blue die X, 2, 3: Standard activation, 4, 5, 6: type based activation. This can also be easily expanded at a later date by grouping things into X, 2 then 3, 4 and 5, 6.

But on the other hand, it is not really required, as I'm sure RtP will function perfectly with the current system. It's just an option for the future, but it can be planned properly, if needed.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Burigo
Italy
Belluno
flag msg tools
designer
badge
“Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.” - Granny Weatherwax
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DelphiDie wrote:
- A second dice throw. It would be pretty simple. On activation of a monster roll the blue die X, 2, 3: Standard activation, 4, 5, 6: type based activation. This can also be easily expanded at a later date by grouping things into X, 2 then 3, 4 and 5, 6.
Yes we tried something similar while we had to decide how to come up with a uniform distribution when we have monsters with 3, 4 or 6 activation boxes (in the end we decided to reroll unwanted results).

Yep, the (albeit very minor) things I wanted to maintain were:
- linear distribution of activations, and
- simpler reference system.

The first point is highly debatable: it's worth noting only with monsters that have more than 3 special activations.
In those cases we have to decide:
- Do we want every activation for that monster group to be evenly distributed?
- Or do we want a 50%/50% possibility of that activation being special/general and then roll separately (even if simultaneously) within that "container"?
I lean toward the former, but in this case it's a matter of personal preference.

The second point is more a "quality of life" improvement: you just draw and roll a die, check its result, and the color and AI card tell you where to look.
This is what motivates me the most. During a quest, monster activations are repeated many times, and it's not the exciting part. I prefer this process to be as lean as possible.

Do these two desiderata counterbalance the reprint of all AI cards?
Probably not for most people. But I'd buy them for this additional feature.

Anyway, my gut feelings tell me we'll probably go with what you suggested, in a hypothetical future.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce
msg tools
badge
Avatar
FYI, the 3 generic activiations are not all used for all monsters of that type. Valkyrie data will tell you which of the three are used. Generic activations used always come from the same set (brawl/skirmish/range).

The used activations was determined by spamming the force activation until the odds of missing one were very low.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Billington
New Zealand
flag msg tools
Thanks for all the awesome effort you've all put into this!!! The presentation quality and professionalism is phenomenal...thanks everyone!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am incredibly pleased with the finished product here! Sadgit, Painkeeper, you guys have done a fantastic job!
3 
 Thumb up
50.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guido Hansen
Germany
flag msg tools
Descent 2nd Edition Community Rules Reference Guide
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am happy to announce that all Sands of the Past cards have been integrated into the Google Chrome D2e Card Viewer extension. For those of you already using this great tool it should have updated to version 1.15.0 automatically.

Thanks for all the hard work on this, any2cards!
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
any2cards
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just a further update ... I spent time today working on some annoyances with the tool. I am slowly trying to get ride of those annoyances.

As a result, the current version is 2.0.3.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guido Hansen
Germany
flag msg tools
Descent 2nd Edition Community Rules Reference Guide
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Update for professionally printed cards
As I am experiencing continuous problems with sharing my shopping basket at MPC, I have made all cards available for download on the SotP page. You can use these cards (which include correct bleed areas) to set up your printing project at MPC or elsewhere. I also created and published pre-made decks of small and large cards available from here: https://www.makeplayingcards.com/sell/glass-bead-games

Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
4 
 Thumb up
5.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Morisette
United States
Northfield
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Nice! Thanks Sadgit!

Will you be doing premade decks with the standard sized cards too?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guido Hansen
Germany
flag msg tools
Descent 2nd Edition Community Rules Reference Guide
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bmorisette wrote:
Nice! Thanks Sadgit!

Will you be doing premade decks with the standard sized cards too?
I actually did. Unfortunately MPC declined to accept the design. You need to do that by your own, sorry. It's easy and should take around 10 min with the cards provided.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Morisette
United States
Northfield
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Understood.

Thanks for all your work here. Great stuff!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Binkley
msg tools
mb
That’s too bad about the difficulty with the cards. When I followed the steps it worked for me. My cards are already on the way.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Binkley
msg tools
mb
Sadgit wrote:
Our approach was similar:

1. Start with Redjak's Quest objective cards as a basis.
2. Start with a standard Start-Minor-Minor-Quest-Major-Major-Deadly Peril card setup (peril deck III, heroic/legendary difficulty)
3. Carefully read the quest description and modify Agenda and Peril deck accordingly.
4. Play the quest with 4 heroes and see what works and what does not. Modify Peril deck and Agenda.
5. Adjust Peril deck for other difficulties.

All Quest perils have been designed by Erik. No idea how he did it

From my experience it is not possible to design good Agenda cards and estimate the length of a typical game without actually playing the scenario. There are just too many small details that can mess things up.

Hey, quick question. What program do you use to create/edit agenda cards?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guido Hansen
Germany
flag msg tools
Descent 2nd Edition Community Rules Reference Guide
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I started with Photoshop as there are good templates available for most offical card types. The design of Agenda cards and Monster Activation was done in InDesign which is much better for creating decks of cards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   |