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Subject: Dice Throne Season One Remastered will be part of the Dice Throne Adventures kickstarter campaign! rss

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Rachael Corns
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Information Source: Facebook post by Manny Trembly on 6/25/19 (couldn't figure out how to share the post link, so here is the copy/paste below)

"We are 3 weeks away from the Dice Throne Adventures kickstarter! We wanted to announce something coming with this kickstarter that will make many of you very excited, and others, not so much:
Dice Throne Season One Remastered will be part of the campaign!
Our goal is to be upfront and honest while we walk you through questions you might have.

Q: I thought you said you weren’t remastering in 2019!?
A: There still will not be a remastered edition available to play in 2019 (the product won’t ship until Spring 2020). But a number of things happened that caused us to begin the remastering process now. Primarily, *you* all happened. We had what we believed was enough copies to last most of 2019 and we planned to launch a remaster campaign January 2020. But DT sales actually increased from holiday season 2018 to January, then again in February, then again in March, and then again in April. This is *very* abnormal for board games. We ended up selling ALL copies of S1 (and S2 actually) from our fulfillment service by the end of April (6-8 months earlier than expected). Distribution channels might still have stock, but it’s only a matter of time until it’s gone from there too and the current form of S1 is gone forever. We are now 3 weeks away from launching a brand new co-op expansion. We expect there to be a large number of new players who will join our amazing community and will want to play the S1 heroes, but they will have no way to do so. We could have reprinted S1 as is, but the request for us to remaster has been extremely loud and clear. Well, we heard you. It’s time. Let’s do this!!

Q: I just bought S1. Why didn’t you tell us sooner?
A: We have been trying to figure out the remaster plan for a while and only recently decided to include it in the DTA campaign. We are working on the product as we speak. The S1R heroes will not be available until Spring 2020 when we ship the DTA campaign. So players won’t receive these heroes for 9-11 months. Additionally, the cost of these heroes will definitely be higher than the non-remastered edition. So, if you already purchased it, then you have the S1 heroes earlier and cheaper. If you choose to upgrade, since S1 is in very short supply globally, you could consider selling it if desired. Or better yet, gift it to a friend who will be forever grateful

Q: I already own S1. Should I buy S1R?
A: Only you can answer that. We are changing the visuals to match S2 (tri-fold boards, full art on cards and abilities, color-coded dice, and fancy trays). But we can honestly say that people who already bought S1 and just enjoy playing with their friends and family at home don’t NEED to purchase the remaster. In-fact, if you are already having fun and don’t mind the visual difference, then we suggest that you do not buy the remaster. The only real downfall is that S1 doesn’t have common card backs like S2 has and like S1R will also have. Since Loot upgrades get added to your deck in DTA, you will either need to sleeve your S1 cards or else be okay with knowing you have loot cards coming up in your draw pile.

Q: Are you changing anything about the hero abilities?
A: Yes, Not fundamentally, but we ARE refining them. We’ve had 18 months of player interaction, feedback, two Dice Throne cons, and many tournaments. We’re listening, growing, and evolving. Is DT a perfectly balanced game? No. Do we strive to make it as balanced as possible? ABSOLUTELY. The changes we’re considering will not only help with hero balance, but will also help remove a few interactions that can make DT less fun. For example, you might notice some minor tweaks in the image of the Shadow Thief above. They are an example of some of the things we are exploring and will be rigorously testing (but note that these are not final!).

Q: If you’re changing abilities, then I need to update, right?
A: No. The way the heroes play right now is great for the vast majority of you. If your goal is to play DT at a competitive level, then yes, you will want to update your heroes. Tournament play is very different than casual play. The only reason the casual players might want to update is for the updated look or the unified card backs (which are more friendly with DTA if you don’t sleeve your cards).

Q: Will you be making changes to S2?
A: We have no current plans to do so, but it could happen in the future. We certainly don’t desire to make frequent changes. But if Magic the Gathering, Pokémon, X-wing, League of Legends, Starcraft, etc, all improve the gameplay over time, who are we to say we can do it better? We will continue to learn and we will strive to make Dice Throne the best it can be with every future iteration, while also keeping these changes to a minimum.

Q: What form factors will S1R come in?
A: We’re creating two versions:
The first will be a retail edition called “Dice Throne Starter Box”. This will be a less expensive product and it will contain 4 heroes (Barbarian, Moon Elf, Shadow Thief, and Pyromancer). We hope this product will be the one that all new DT players will be directed to as the best place to learn DT. We want this box to be as inexpensive as we can make it. The Paladin and Monk will be a separate 2 hero battle box.
The second product offering will be the Season One Remastered Battle Chest. This will be available during the DTA campaign and will be similar to the epic product design you know and love from S2.

Q: How much will the remaster cost?
A: We don’t fully know yet, but it will be similar to the per-hero cost of S2.
To all of you that have been begging for a remaster, thanks for pushing us. We’re thrilled it’s finally becoming a reality! Please help us celebrate below.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. The kickstarter campaign is 3 weeks away and we couldn’t be more excited!"

-Manny, Nate, and Gavan
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Brett M
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Overall very good news and I am glad they are doing this.

I am only frustrated by this specifically because of question 2 and that this was repeatedly pointed out as the reason the season one remaster should have happened with season 2. You have a whole bunch of people now with a dated version (esp considering the balance changes in question 4) and it was obvious season two was going to cause a whole bunch more people to enter this community.

Hopefully I am overselling this/wrong about this ... but I see this frustrating a lot of supporters.

EDIT... also DT guys should do KS updates announcing this ASAP. Get this news out there across all front (which they are aware of do to question #4 about letting people know sooner)
 
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Kevin Young
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Most people will have S1 heroes for more than a year before the remastered ones are released. You can get a lot of play in a year.

Better than buying Gizmos 2 weeks ago and having the 2nd edition release next month.
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eflin wrote:
Overall very good news and I am glad they are doing this.

I am only frustrated by this specifically because of question 2 and that this was repeatedly pointed out as the reason the season one remaster should have happened with season 2. You have a whole bunch of people now with a dated version (esp considering the balance changes in question 4) and it was obvious season two was going to cause a whole bunch more people to enter this community.

Hopefully I am overselling this/wrong about this ... but I see this frustrating a lot of supporters.

EDIT... also DT guys should do KS updates announcing this ASSP. Get this news out there across all front (which they are aware of do to question #4 about letting people know sooner)

It's hard because there's no perfect time. There's always going to be people who've just bought it. "We sold out, guess now is the time." seems better than doing a reprint of S1 before doing a remaster.
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aron craig
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Rakor wrote:
"We sold out, guess now is the time." seems better than doing a reprint of S1 before doing a remaster.

Absolutely agree there. Their choices are really:

Wait an extra 6-12 months without Season 1 in print at all to launch another kickstarter (any sooner would certainly lead to a lot of complaints about why it wasn't done with Adventures to bundle shipping)

Reprint as is with S1 looking really out of place next to the S2 stuff

Reprint without doing a kick.. which leads to the same problem of "why not with the Adv project so we could bundle"

Revamp now and have everything uniform going forward.


Last option clearly makes the most sense to me.. and I say that as someone who bought the S1 box about 2 months ago.
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Agreed there is never a good time but that was the argument for doing it with the season 2 Kickstarter. Even if it had to be done in a second wave after season 2 due to timing/leads times for the revamp... people would have known it was coming over a year ago.... many would have already bought it with the KS and had season 2 heroes while they waited... and it would have gotten ahead of it as quickly as they could

Again I think it is awesome they are doing it and fully support the season 2 upgrades and remaster now. Just wish it had been done even earlier is all.

Sorry if my initial post was too negative sounding.

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aron craig
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eflin wrote:
Even if it had to be done in a second wave after season 2 due to timing/leads times for the revamp...

It wasn't planned that way because going into this year they had significant stock of the existing S1 games. Enough that following the average purchasing trends a reprint wouldn't be on the table until 2020. But things didn't follow normal trends and the game ended up gaining momentum rather than slowing down. That resulted in S1 selling out 6-8 months earlier than expected. At least, that's what I got out of the post there.
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Phillip Houk
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The only part that confuses me about this is that this means the game will be out of print until next year.

Are the banking on S2 being available?
 
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Also they did not say. Will they have an upgrade kit as part of the KS?

New boards and cards? I guess at that point you are not saving much money
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cotj73 wrote:
Also they did not say. Will they have an upgrade kit as part of the KS?

New boards and cards? I guess at that point you are not saving much money

In the spirit of remastering, I'm 99% sure it will definitely be new boards and new cards. Not with new abilities, but updated artwork and the foresaid mentioned "tweaks" in the Q&A.
 
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cotj73 wrote:
The only part that confuses me about this is that this means the game will be out of print until next year.

Are the banking on S2 being available?

Unlikely. They have to have another print run in the works if its selling this well. Now there easily could be a gap of a few months where its hard to find... as it takes time to do a reprint... but hopefully they saw this coming and reprinted season 2 so it's not a large gap. These type of things happen all the time though with popular newer games.

It does mean season 1 is likely to go out of print though. Doing another reprint at this point would be bad I think if the remaster has been announced. People can just play season 2... which should not be out of print at all.

aroncraig wrote:
eflin wrote:
Even if it had to be done in a second wave after season 2 due to timing/leads times for the revamp...

It wasn't planned that way because going into this year they had significant stock of the existing S1 games. Enough that following the average purchasing trends a reprint wouldn't be on the table until 2020. But things didn't follow normal trends and the game ended up gaining momentum rather than slowing down. That resulted in S1 selling out 6-8 months earlier than expected. At least, that's what I got out of the post there.

I want to preface my entire response with I am a huge supporter of Dice Throne (I mean I run the FAQs here). They have a truly great product and the design team and Roxley are all great people. I hope people aren't thinking otherwise.

I just don't like this one decision they made (and was plenty vocal about this back in the season 2 kickstarter two). Doens't mean I'm right either even if this does lend some credence to my original opinions on this back in the day.

On to my reply now... (sorry)...

aroncraig wrote:
It wasn't planned that way because going into this year they had significant stock of the existing S1 games.

Back during the KS for season 2 that wasn't the case. That’s when they did this printing they are now selling out of faster than expected. So they had a real oppurtunity at that point to remaster season 1 and get ahead of this. They even could have used the KS2 to offer an upgrade kit for existing backers (that KS was a great way to get something like that out which would never work at retail).

The concern (as described by them at the time) was simply the time and money it would take to do all the new art/layout was better used to plan season 3/DT adventures and that they didn't want to delay season 2 at all. At the time I suggested they still do it now but simply break the remaster out into a second wave so as not to delay Season 2. They still decided against the remaster though and moved right onto season 3 which is now split into two seperate KS/projects.

I respect that choice but even back then I was advocating against it. It was clear from all the feedback (and how well season 1 was being received) that DT was primed to take off with season 2 (especially with the big component/style upgrades). So to me spending the time to remaster season 1 and get ahead of this was the right call in the long run (even if short term more new things is better).

Put another way... Remastering season 1 was mainly art. The heroes themselves would only need minor tweaks as they were already balanced and designed. So it did not require nearly as much time as Season 3 would have. You don't need all the playtesting and rules edits etc. Now art takes time for sure... especially all the layout issues etc... but my point is remastering season 1 would have taken substantially less time than designing season 3 and Dice Throne Adventures. So doing the remaster first would have been a small delay to season 3 (relative to S3/DT adventures design time).

EDIT: I say small delay... because while the design side of things was going on Season 3/DT they could have the art side of thing doing the remaster... and by the time they finished Season 3/DT would be further in the development/design and art likely woudln't have lost too much time /EDIT

Doing it the way they did here caused the remaster to be delayed over a year... maybe more... during which the game predictably surged in popularity and they now have tons more customers who have the old season 1 and are facing an outdated product in a relatively short time to when they purchased it. Not my words but many have said Season 1 almost feels like a prototype/beta you paid for. Again not my words but I can see where they are coming from. I know they are saying you don’t need to upgrade but this isn’t purely aesthetic upgrades. They are changing design too.

I myself am okay with it. I loved the game and it was worth every penny. And I've been enjoying it all this time. I just know others won’t be. I hope/expect most wont mind enough to have this leave a bad taste... but I just think they should have doubled down and remastered season 1 with the season 2 KS knowing they had something special.

I realize there is no perfect answer though and timing print runs/distribution and allocating resources is a giant puzzle that is impossible to get perfect. No matter what you do it will dissapoint some and you can't predict how demand and supply will go (just look to the whole debacle with Wingspan most recently). Furter there are other issues we aren't even privy to. Maybe funds were an issue too (although I would hope the additional money from remaster preorders on KS and doing it in two waves could have dealt with this). That whole part of the process is part of why I love KS projects though. It’s very interesting seeing what goes in behind the curtain and the intricate decisions and challenges that go into these questions

So that's all. I think this was an easy to see problem that they didn't meet head on... and that many people pointed out repeatedly. They likely had good reasons for their choices though (they've done an amazing job overall so I don't doubt they had good logic for their choices) and I am glad they are doing the remaster now!

EDIT: added a small part which I flagged with edit tags
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Brett M
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cotj73 wrote:
Also they did not say. Will they have an upgrade kit as part of the KS?

New boards and cards? I guess at that point you are not saving much money

I certainly hope they do! That would go a long way to smoothing this over for people who already bought season 1. KS is the only way this would work too.

an upgrade kits makes no viable sense at retail. With KS they can print one time to demand and really help smooth the transition. I hope they consider this... but it comes with lots of challenges too so it might not make sense.

For example the new components are different form factors (and the game trayz etc) so you'd have to do a new box anyway which is a large part of the cost for shipping etc. It might not be that much of a savings over just making us buy the new version. I likely wouldn't do an upgrade kit and would just give my season one copy to my local gaming store or library. Only question for me will be the dice. I might have to keep my old champion edition dice and give them the new versions dice :- )
 
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eflin wrote:
cotj73 wrote:
Also they did not say. Will they have an upgrade kit as part of the KS?

New boards and cards? I guess at that point you are not saving much money

I certainly hope they do! That would go a long way to smoothing this over for people who already bought season 1. KS is the only way this would work too.

an upgrade kits makes no viable sense at retail. With KS they can print one time to demand and really help smooth the transition. I hope they consider this... but it comes with lots of challenges too so it might not make sense.

For example the new components are different form factors (and the game trayz etc) so you'd have to do a new box anyway which is a large part of the cost for shipping etc. It might not be that much of a savings over just making us buy the new version. I likely wouldn't do an upgrade kit and would just give my season one copy to my local gaming store or library. Only question for me will be the dice. I might have to keep my old champion edition dice and give them the new versions dice :- )

practically all you can reuse from the current S1 printing is the tokens and the counters. the tokens are (by far) the cheapest parts of the game. An upgrade kit for a hero would consist of:
board, leaflet, cards, dice and a tray.
I doubt the extra handling of offering those separately will be beneficial.
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Agreed Pieter. That's what I was trying to get to at the end of my post. Not sure it makes sense but I'm hoping they offer something in the KS for returning supporters to smooth over the issue.

For example... what if they make it so you can get all the new cards and boards/leaflets only? But make it so you can still somehow fit it in the original box? This upgrade kit could likely be shipped easily in a much smaller plain cardboard box.

So cards slide into the old season one trays... you can reuse old dice, tokens, and health dials... and then the new trifold boards lay flat on top (likely with a small ammount of box lift)?

Again I am guessing it just makes sense to NOT do an upgrade kit... but it's not out of the question... so hopefully they'll do what they can and have tried out some options/ideas. In fact I'm sure they have so I guess we'll just wait and see.
 
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Honestly a simple upgrade kit would include new decks for all characters.

Every other aspect of the characters will basically remain the same. As for the new board, I really do not care. I actually would prefer them to provide "Base" cards also that you could just set on top of the current abilities.
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Yeah even just an errata kit for S1 cards only (and still in the old style) would be much appreciated as a freebie in the Dice Throne Adventures Kickstarter. Then it will truly be an aesthetic upgrade only and people will feel better about sticking with season 1 as is and not getting the remaster.

That's a good compromise Phillip Houk.
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eflin wrote:
Overall very good news and I am glad they are doing this.

I am only frustrated by this specifically because of question 2 and that this was repeatedly pointed out as the reason the season one remaster should have happened with season 2. You have a whole bunch of people now with a dated version (esp considering the balance changes in question 4) and it was obvious season two was going to cause a whole bunch more people to enter this community.

Hopefully I am overselling this/wrong about this ... but I see this frustrating a lot of supporters.

EDIT... also DT guys should do KS updates announcing this ASAP. Get this news out there across all front (which they are aware of do to question #4 about letting people know sooner)
They couldn't do it with the S2 KS because they still had a lot of the original stock left to sell (they even included pledges in the S2 KS of S1 KS versions they need to get rid of). I think it was pretty clear from the start that this was inevitable, but they would have taken a big hit if they had announced this back then. Instead they had to keep quite, say maybe we will think about it, and wait for people to buy up what was left.
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ras2124 wrote:
They couldn't do it with the S2 KS because they still had a lot of the original stock left to sell (they even included pledges in the S2 KS of S1 KS versions they need to get rid of). I think it was pretty clear from the start that this was inevitable, but they would have taken a big hit if they had announced this back then. Instead they had to keep quite, say maybe we will think about it, and wait for people to buy up what was left.

How sure are you of this? We know they only had very limited champion edition copies left at the time (which they put up on the KS)... but the question would be how many regular editions they had left on top of that. That was likely a big part of the decision for sure but given the popularity I've seen I'd be surprised if there has been no reprints in the interim. Could be true but it would surprise me is all.

If they had announced it back then with the 2nd KS I still think they could have sold a good portion of the old stock at full price... as people would have still been purchasing the game to play immediately.... and then as the remaster street date approached it could be discounted but still not sold at a loss. This happens all the time with new printings/remasters.

I do agree it was inevitable a remaster had to happen... but they went out of there way to make it equally clear they had no immediate plans for it and it would be 2020 at the earliest (implying it could be longer). That is why this news now is so surprising because it goes against what they said before (even if I'm glad its happening sooner)
 
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eflin wrote:
ras2124 wrote:
They couldn't do it with the S2 KS because they still had a lot of the original stock left to sell (they even included pledges in the S2 KS of S1 KS versions they need to get rid of). I think it was pretty clear from the start that this was inevitable, but they would have taken a big hit if they had announced this back then. Instead they had to keep quite, say maybe we will think about it, and wait for people to buy up what was left.

How sure are you of this? We know they only had very limited champion edition copies left at the time (which they put up on the KS)... but the question would be how many regular editions they had left on top of that. That was likely a big part of the decision for sure but given the popularity I've seen I'd be surprised if there has been no reprints in the interim. Could be true but it would surprise me is all.

If they had announced it back then with the 2nd KS I still think they could have sold a good portion of the old stock at full price... as people would have still been purchasing the game to play immediately.... and then as the remaster street date approached it could be discounted but still not sold at a loss. This happens all the time with new printings/remasters.

I do agree it was inevitable a remaster had to happen... but they went out of there way to make it equally clear they had no immediate plans for it and it would be 2020 at the earliest (implying it could be longer). That is why this news now is so surprising because it goes against what they said before (even if I'm glad its happening sooner)
They might have done some small reprints in there too to ride the wave of demand, but I think the decision during the KS itself was mostly based on moving the on hand copies first.

As for if people would have bought them, it is kind of complicated. There are people who would buy some for sure, but I think most with wait. On top of that it would be a bad idea for gaming stores, where stock doesn't always move that fast, to buy them at the risk of them being out of date before they sell so there would be ripples in the entire supply chain. I personally have never seen an earlier edition not go on sale after an official new edition announcement for any game, and assuming they would still move at regular price would be a major risk.
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UPDATE: Manny mentioned yesterday that they are looking at a sticker/card upgrade kit option. This would allow you to update your existing S1 boards with any changes to abilities that are made with the upgrade as well as giving you artwork on both the boards and cards. It also would make sure you have standard card backs for S1 which, if you don't own the custom sleeves, will make playing Dice Throne Adventures more practical when it comes to adding loot cards to your deck.
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How will the “loot” cards work with the character specific sleeves?
 
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MrNanaba wrote:
How will the “loot” cards work with the character specific sleeves?
put them in a sleeve and shuffle them in the deck?
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Rachael Corns
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They had an update you check check out at Dice Throne Adventures - Prototype Preview [Facebook Video]
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pieterschutz wrote:
MrNanaba wrote:
How will the “loot” cards work with the character specific sleeves?
put them in a sleeve and shuffle them in the deck?

To tack onto Pieter's answer, if you ordered the character sleeves, you should have enough spare ones to sleeve extra loot cards. The video Rachael referenced mentions this too - and that you can't ever have more than....I think 50?....cards in your deck. In whatever case, you'll have enough sleeves to cover the max deck size if you kept your extras.
 
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Or if you do not tear a sleeve, or get 1 defective one.
 
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