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Subject: Is Helsinki port considered part of Finnish border? rss

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Patrick B
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9.17d "Axis units may not cross the Finnish border until the turn after
Novgorod becomes Axis-controlled, at which point the Finnish border
may be crossed by Axis units to and from the Onega Swamps
(only)."

Is there anything preventing a Finnish unit from using sea transport to move to a friendly-controlled Lithuania, if the Axis haven't yet made it to Novgorod?

I assume that this would be forbidden because the port would be considered the Finnish 'frontier', and no travel is allowed past it until Novgorod and Leningrad are 'freed' by the Germans.
 
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Rick Young
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Sea movement is allowed. The border intended is the Soviet-Finnish border.

If you exclude sea-movement, then the Germans couldn't sea-move in either, as that too would be crossing the border.
 
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François Brassard Lahey
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So you could send finns to Mainland europe then use them agaisnt the Soviets ?
 
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Rick Young
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Not until after Leningrad falls - See their operational limits in the Political rules.
 
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Patrick B
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Rick Young wrote:
Not until after Leningrad falls - See their operational limits in the Political rules.


9.17(d): Finnish units may only operate in Finland and/or the Onega Swamps until the game-turn after Leningrad becomes Axis-controlled, at which point the Karelia/Novgorod border can also be crossed and Finnish units become free to operate anywhere within Finland and the Soviet Union."

This would seem to imply that until Leningrad becomes Axis-controlled, the FINNS can't enter the rest of the Soviet Union.

It would also seem to imply that the while German units attacking from Finland have to wait for Novgorod to be taken before they can enter the Onega Swamps, they can immediately head into the rest of Russia.

My reasoning is that it doesn't say "Axis forces attacking from Finland become free to operate anywhere..." It says "Finnish units become free to operate anywhere..." To my mind, that means that any German units can travel past the Onega Swamps, assuming Novgorod has been taken.

Correct?
 
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Rick Young
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It would also seem to imply that the while German units attacking from Finland have to wait for Novgorod to be taken before they can enter the Onega Swamps, they can immediately head into the rest of Russia.

My reasoning is that it doesn't say "Axis forces attacking from Finland become free to operate anywhere..." It says "Finnish units become free to operate anywhere..." To my mind, that means that any German units can travel past the Onega Swamps, assuming Novgorod has been taken.

Correct?


Incorrect - The Finns cannot operate outside of Finland until Novgorod falls. After that they can only operate in Finland and the Onega Swamps until Leningrad falls.

After that they can operate anywhere in Finland and/or Russia.
 
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Patrick B
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Rick Young wrote:
It would also seem to imply that the while German units attacking from Finland have to wait for Novgorod to be taken before they can enter the Onega Swamps, they can immediately head into the rest of Russia.

My reasoning is that it doesn't say "Axis forces attacking from Finland become free to operate anywhere..." It says "Finnish units become free to operate anywhere..." To my mind, that means that any German units can travel past the Onega Swamps, assuming Novgorod has been taken.

Correct?


Incorrect - The Finns cannot operate outside of Finland until Novgorod falls. After that they can only operate in Finland and the Onega Swamps until Leningrad falls.

After that they can operate anywhere in Finland and/or Russia.


But I said the GERMANS (from Finland), not the Finns, could operate outside of the Onega Swamps once Leningrad is captured. Is THAT correct?

Remember, the rules says that the FINNS can't enter the rest of the Soviet Union until Leningrad falls; it doesn't say anything about GERMANS coming from Finland (after Leningrad falls)
 
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Rick Young
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Ah, sorry.

In that case, your statement is correct.
 
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Patrick B
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Nuts. I worded my statement incorrectly in my haste. And then edited something else twice.

Alright. The Axis can't cross the Finnish border until Novgorod has been taken. Once that happens, it says that the FINNS can enter the Onega Swamps, but can't proceed farther into Russia until Leningrad is taken.

However, it doesn't say anything about the GERMAN units coming from Finland being stopped from anything after Novgorod has been taken. So: my reading is that once Novgorod is taken, German units from Finland are free to operate ANYWHERE in the Soviet Union. Correct?

Example: Axis takes Novgorod, and then Finns and some German infantry from Finland enter the Onega Swamps. Then, the Germans in the Onega Swamps head into the area east of the Ladoga Swamps, while the Finns have to wait for Leningrad to be taken.
 
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Rick Young
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Correct
 
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Patrick B
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Thanks, Rick. That has important implications for the NW part of Russia that I hadn't considered before.
 
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