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Subject: What's the deal with Unbroken? rss

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Theo Peters
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I haven't Kickstarted too many games, but when I do I'm usually a "Kick it and forget it" kind of person. I don't jump in the forums and read or post comments very much, just too busy for that. But in perusing BGG, I've noticed there seems to be a lot of drama? Something about Golden Bell? I know they asked for more money for shipping because of miscalculations or something, but I haven't received mine in Canada yet so I was waiting for that before I gave that more thought. Can someone give me the Coles Notes of what's going on with the game and the issues?
 
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Daniel Wilmer
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threepointthed wrote:
I haven't Kickstarted too many games, but when I do I'm usually a "Kick it and forget it" kind of person. I don't jump in the forums and read or post comments very much, just too busy for that. But in perusing BGG, I've noticed there seems to be a lot of drama? Something about Golden Bell? I know they asked for more money for shipping because of miscalculations or something, but I haven't received mine in Canada yet so I was waiting for that before I gave that more thought. Can someone give me the Coles Notes of what's going on with the game and the issues?

Quick search in the updates:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1227872561/unbroken-a-s...
 
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Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
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Mostly, Golden Bell's CEO has a very inappropriate way to interact with backers, and will simply not accept to change it.
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Reiji Kobayashi
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To the best of my knowledge (which, admittedly, is spotty at best) this is what happened:

1. The original KS creator made miscalculations about shipping costs.

2. Golden Bell stepped in to handle shipping.

3. GB asked backers to increase their pledges to cover the extra fee.

4. Some of the backers made nasty comments in the KS. GB made equally nasty comments.

6. GB started using media mail to ship the game in direct violation of USPS rules.

7. Somebody alerted USPS of this violation.

8. GB started emailing certain backers, telling them to accept a refund or suffer legal consequences.

9. All hell broke loose.



As I understand it, the issues are that:

1. GB's comments are far from professional.

2. GB committed fraud by using media mail.

3. GB's use of email addresses obtained through Backer Kit and the emails themselves are deeply disturbing.


EDIT - corrected UPS to USPS. Darn acronyms.
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Donny Behne
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Pretty accurate rundown.

Laissez K wrote:


6. GB started using media mail to ship the game in direct violation of UPS rules.

7. Somebody alerted UPS of this violation.

For clarity, it's USPS (United States Postal Service), not UPS (United Parcel Service). The names are far too similar!
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Jay Jasper
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surprise surprise surprise
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Dave B
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More like Broken.
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Bryan
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Board gamers are a tight knit community. It's probably a bad idea to insult a customer base such as our own. Even if the customer is in the wrong, there's a still a professional level that a company should maintain.

I feel bad for the designer here.
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Laissez K wrote:
To the best of my knowledge (which, admittedly, is spotty at best) this is what happened:

1. The original KS creator made miscalculations about shipping costs.

2. Golden Bell stepped in to handle shipping.
Maybe, maybe not.

Someone pointed out that GB offered it elsewhere for the same low shipping.

GB stated that they've had an option on the game for several years, so it's anybody's guess when they actually "stepped in." It's been claimed that some of the art shown early in the campaign was done by GB.

According to the plaintiff in a lawsuit over a different campaign, GB's MO is to offer to help finish a project, but then own future games by that designer.
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Kevin Eastwood
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Laissez K wrote:
To the best of my knowledge (which, admittedly, is spotty at best) this is what happened:

1. The original KS creator made miscalculations about shipping costs.

2. Golden Bell stepped in to handle shipping.

3. GB asked backers to increase their pledges to cover the extra fee.

4. Some of the backers made nasty comments in the KS. GB made equally nasty comments.

6. GB started using media mail to ship the game in direct violation of USPS rules.

7. Somebody alerted USPS of this violation.

8. GB started emailing certain backers, telling them to accept a refund or suffer legal consequences.

9. All hell broke loose.



As I understand it, the issues are that:

1. GB's comments are far from professional.

2. GB committed fraud by using media mail.

3. GB's use of email addresses obtained through Backer Kit and the emails themselves are deeply disturbing.


EDIT - corrected UPS to USPS. Darn acronyms.

Don't forget the duplicate shipments to backers which impacts their inventory (no idea if this impacts the designer due to lost potential sales on extra copies.

Also, the nastiness is real. Asking legitimate questions and inquiring, results in a defensive attitude. A mild example:

Does the mis-shipment of inventory mean that the designer will take a hit on future sales?

Answer(paraphrased): Stop spreading lies about us running out of inventory. Dude, not sure what you mean by "hit". Yo, designer, you wanna take a hit of somethin?

Another example from the FB forums was a discussion about feeling bad for the designer because of the "hot mess" surrounding this. Another person replies with a similar sentiment and hopes the rights are with the designer.

Answer: "We hold the rights, don't worry you can feel bad." Followed by a "burn" GIF and Mr. Burns plotting.
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Byron Campbell
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That reminds me, I still haven’t received mine (US). The last update said end of July, but I know a ton of people already got theirs.
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Royce Reiss
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kittenhoarder wrote:
That reminds me, I still haven’t received mine (US). The last update said end of July, but I know a ton of people already got theirs.

You should consider contacting Golden Bell and inquire on the status. My was shipped shortly after I asked about shipping status in mid June just after the prior expected delivery date.
 
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Laissez K wrote:
To the best of my knowledge (which, admittedly, is spotty at best) this is what happened:

1. The original KS creator made miscalculations about shipping costs.

2. Golden Bell stepped in to handle shipping.

3. GB asked backers to increase their pledges to cover the extra fee.

4. Some of the backers made nasty comments in the KS. GB made equally nasty comments.

6. GB started using media mail to ship the game in direct violation of USPS rules.

7. Somebody alerted USPS of this violation.

8. GB started emailing certain backers, telling them to accept a refund or suffer legal consequences.

9. All hell broke loose.



As I understand it, the issues are that:

1. GB's comments are far from professional.

2. GB committed fraud by using media mail.

3. GB's use of email addresses obtained through Backer Kit and the emails themselves are deeply disturbing.


EDIT - corrected UPS to USPS. Darn acronyms.

I believe this description gives the mistaken impression that the backers were nasty and then Golden Bell was nasty in return just as much. I don't know how the nastiness started, but since then Golden Bell have abused backers consistently and harshly and completely out of proportion to backers' behavior. They have also lied, threatened folks with lawsuits for no reason, threatened to contact certain people's employers, and used backerkit address data inappropriately. It's been the biggest such meltdown I've ever seen.
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Rick Mann
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Laissez K wrote:

...
2. Golden Bell stepped in to handle shipping.
...

Their level of interest couldn't have had anything to do with the success of the project? (4,273% funded)
 
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Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
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usfbrown wrote:
Board gamers are a tight knit community. It's probably a bad idea to insult a customer base such as our own. Even if the customer is in the wrong, there's a still a professional level that a company should maintain.

I feel bad for the designer here.

It is 100% always wrong to insult your customer no matter what the situation.
Especially in written and public form.
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Theo Peters
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Razoupaf wrote:
usfbrown wrote:
Board gamers are a tight knit community. It's probably a bad idea to insult a customer base such as our own. Even if the customer is in the wrong, there's a still a professional level that a company should maintain.

I feel bad for the designer here.

It is 100% always wrong to insult your customer no matter what the situation.
Especially in written and public form.

Is this on BGG? Or the Kickstarter page?
 
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A M
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threepointthed wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:
usfbrown wrote:
Board gamers are a tight knit community. It's probably a bad idea to insult a customer base such as our own. Even if the customer is in the wrong, there's a still a professional level that a company should maintain.

I feel bad for the designer here.

It is 100% always wrong to insult your customer no matter what the situation.
Especially in written and public form.

Is this on BGG? Or the Kickstarter page?

The KS page. Apparently GB was at it on BGG as well, and it got them banned.

When you're a games publisher and you get banned from this site, you know something has gone horribly, horribly wrong.
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threepointthed wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:
usfbrown wrote:
Board gamers are a tight knit community. It's probably a bad idea to insult a customer base such as our own. Even if the customer is in the wrong, there's a still a professional level that a company should maintain.

I feel bad for the designer here.

It is 100% always wrong to insult your customer no matter what the situation.
Especially in written and public form.

Is this on BGG? Or the Kickstarter page?

They've deleted some things from the KS page, but there might be still stuff there. The Unbroken Forums page on BGG has plenty. Look for the threads with lots of replies.
 
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Denis P
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I got the game in a math trade. I think it's an excellent game. It's very well done. A bit more "fluff" than it needs - I believe many of the stretch goals would have been better as additional content. Hopefully, you receive the game with no issues.
 
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Laura Creighton
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And nobody in Europe has it yet, correct?
 
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Jason Moore
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lacreighton wrote:
And nobody in Europe has it yet, correct?

Nor any word on how, when or if we might.
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honeyralmond wrote:

I believe this description gives the mistaken impression that the backers were nasty and then Golden Bell was nasty in return just as much. I don't know how the nastiness started, but since then Golden Bell have abused backers consistently and harshly and completely out of proportion to backers' behavior. They have also lied, threatened folks with lawsuits for no reason, threatened to contact certain people's employers, and used backerkit address data inappropriately. It's been the biggest such meltdown I've ever seen.

It very much started with backers who went ballistic over the idea that they may have to pay more in shipping due to the miscalculation by the creator.

Doesn't excuse the complete lack of professionalism on the part of GB.
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Aaron Hall
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eliard wrote:
honeyralmond wrote:

I believe this description gives the mistaken impression that the backers were nasty and then Golden Bell was nasty in return just as much. I don't know how the nastiness started, but since then Golden Bell have abused backers consistently and harshly and completely out of proportion to backers' behavior. They have also lied, threatened folks with lawsuits for no reason, threatened to contact certain people's employers, and used backerkit address data inappropriately. It's been the biggest such meltdown I've ever seen.

It very much started with backers who went ballistic over the idea that they may have to pay more in shipping due to the miscalculation by the creator.

Doesn't excuse the complete lack of professionalism on the part of GB.

Trying to find the original thread/quotes but I cannot. The issues started with the original request for backers to send more money to help cover shipping. GB did claim that it was optional, but people were very questionable about the personal looking email address for Paypal.

May users were questioning the email address, which is where the first discussions came about. Then, there was a email set to GB that wasn't attacking, but was more very direct. Paraphrasing - "I am not going to send more money, send the game that I paid for".

The GB response stated that (paraphrasing again) "if you are fine getting a free game then just ignore the email". This part was what set the person off and rightfully so, its not a free game as they have paid for the game and shipping accordingly. This then continued for one or two more emails, each getting more and more negative. Then, things just continued spiraling out of control to where we are now.
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Theo Peters
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dragon7507 wrote:
eliard wrote:
honeyralmond wrote:

I believe this description gives the mistaken impression that the backers were nasty and then Golden Bell was nasty in return just as much. I don't know how the nastiness started, but since then Golden Bell have abused backers consistently and harshly and completely out of proportion to backers' behavior. They have also lied, threatened folks with lawsuits for no reason, threatened to contact certain people's employers, and used backerkit address data inappropriately. It's been the biggest such meltdown I've ever seen.

It very much started with backers who went ballistic over the idea that they may have to pay more in shipping due to the miscalculation by the creator.

Doesn't excuse the complete lack of professionalism on the part of GB.

Trying to find the original thread/quotes but I cannot. The issues started with the original request for backers to send more money to help cover shipping. GB did claim that it was optional, but people were very questionable about the personal looking email address for Paypal.

May users were questioning the email address, which is where the first discussions came about. Then, there was a email set to GB that wasn't attacking, but was more very direct. Paraphrasing - "I am not going to send more money, send the game that I paid for".

The GB response stated that (paraphrasing again) "if you are fine getting a free game then just ignore the email". This part was what set the person off and rightfully so, its not a free game as they have paid for the game and shipping accordingly. This then continued for one or two more emails, each getting more and more negative. Then, things just continued spiraling out of control to where we are now.

People be cray...
 
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Theo Peters
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repairmanjack wrote:
lacreighton wrote:
And nobody in Europe has it yet, correct?

Nor any word on how, when or if we might.

Is there anyone else not necessarily getting their games? Like Canada?
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