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Paths of Glory» Forums » Strategy

Subject: What about the Mannheim, Frankfurt, Essen line? rss

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paolo f anderson
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I played PoG a couple of times, and I've noticed that this line is the
only place where the Germans (provided 2 step trenches and sufficient armies are in place) can really block the Western Allies.

All three squares have only one approach, so the attrition strategy doesn't work well for the Allies.

Of course, the Germans lose 2 VP, but one front is secure and the CP plaYER can unleash His armies elsewhere.

Did you try this strategy already?
 
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Steve
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It's a very popular strategy with the sharks, the people who are really really good at this game, as I understand it.

 
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It's the standard defence in the west, so nothing new here unfortunately. I usually you try to get those trenches set earlier on and then fall back to that line when the allies get too numerous. As you said, you need to regain those VPs elsewhere but that's what Russia is for.
 
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Philip Thomas
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It is a popular strategy with my regular opponent, George Brandreth. More often he does the slight variant of Strasbourg, Frankfurt, Essen.

Against an opponent who fails to dig in in Aachen, Koblenz and Strasboug it can be quite effective as you can emerge from the line late in the game and retake a VP location or two. But it suffers from two main flaws
1) The conceding of the 2 VP locations.
2) The Allies can relax on the Western Front and so have more resources to spend elsewhere.

There is also of course the minor flaw that in the unlikely event the Allies suceed in breaching the line you really are up the creek without a paddle...
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paolo f anderson
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Geographically the line doesn't make any sense, so maybe the designer put it intentionally as a gamey last ditch defense for the germans ?!
 
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Riku Riekkinen
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Quote:
Geographically the line doesn't make any sense


I think it tries to simulate definsive strength of Rhine (Rhein). It's sometimes called "Rhine line" by PoGoers.
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Philip Thomas
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Also geopolitically the line makes no sense, especially if adopted by the Germans early in the war. With Alsace-Lorraine recovered and Allied armies threatening the German heartland peace would have followed swiftly, I think.
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M@tthijs
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It's indeed the Rhine, so the 1 approach makes a lot of sense.

But in my opinion, it's indeed an impossibility. It's gamey to dig in there and fight in the East: I can't see how the German emperor would tell his people "hey, it's OK we lose all southern Germany; everything below the Rhine. Aachen, Koln, Mainz. It doesn't matter that your brothers, sisters and parents live there, because... we're making great progress in the East! Look!"
Germany would HAVE to extract armies from the Eastfront and fight in the West, to save the old borders.
But although there are a ton of exeptions to force you in a historical corset in this game, there is none for this.

Maybe a houserule that the 2 German cities on the other side of the Rhine are both worth 2-3 VPs?...

my5cts.
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Riku Riekkinen
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Forcing germans to west usually gets them away from east. Berlin-Breslau-Budapest defence is just as non-historical, but people rarely complain about that. I like normal tournament scenario, because it keeps both options (and others) reasonable. Historical scenarios I have seen just force you to do one or other. Also to note is that there is no rules for french to keep line as close as possible (so no leaving C-T or any other space in front of germans empty). I assume that FR also had no intentions of giving huge areas free to germans. And of course in other fronts also very much non historicality....

In conclusion you would have to make a lot more complicated and scripted (major strategies are forced) game, if you wanted it to closely resemble WW1. I doubt that the result would be a good game.

Also note that PoG can be played resembling more to actual WW1. It just requires both sides to do as their historical counterparts.
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Andrea Olivieri
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What an ally player can do vs this strategy? Seem to me that CP give a big advantage from this tactics...
SR army in italy is a good idea but Trent, and Trieste are also really difficult to take. In the time... Russia go out of the game quicly and so the CP player can SR is army back to the West and South front... some idea?
 
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M@tthijs
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I think keep pounding the West Wall (Rhine). Don't try to break it. Inflict losses. You limit Germany's options by causing losses there.

It doesn't matter that you take more damage than the German. Suppose you attack with the French and English and eat 7 LPs each. You will at least do 2 steps in total (2x3 LPs) to the German.
If you play a replacement card for 2F, 2GB, 3RU, you almost rebuild your losses, while you can 'afford to lose' 3 steps with the Russians. The Germans have to match those two step losses, anything they loose on the East Front (in trying to inflicts more than 3 steps to the Russians) comes on top of that.

It's really all about attrition:
It's not important if you inflict more losses than you take, it's important to inflict more than he can rebuild, while being able to rebuild yourself.
And it's about spending OPS: try to make your opponent spent more OPS while needing less yourself.
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