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Subject: About the BGG rank. rss

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paolo f anderson
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Why chess is ranked only 193 ?

I mean ... Be serious.

What question does the rank answer?

"I personally like this game?" or "The design of the game is good/bad
per se?"







 
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Peter Mosbacher
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You might want to check out this thread for a similar discussion: CHESS IS NOT NUMBER ONE!
 
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Seth Owen
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The short answer is that it's because this is not a chess-player's site, but a boardgamer's site.
While it's true that chess IS a boardgame, it's a very special one that has its own devoted hobbyists who tend to congregate on their own Web sites, have their own conventions, magazines, etc. As such those sort of folks will be under-represented here, where people tend to have more eclectic tastes.
The same effect is seen with other games such as backgammon, go, Scrabble, Monopoly and, to a lesser extent Magic:The Gathering and wargames.
For general-interest gamers chess has a number of drawbacks, not the least of which is if you can't devote a lot of time and effort to it, you're going to be a poor player.
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Mikko Saari
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panderson wrote:
Why chess is ranked only 193 ?


Well, I could probably come up with 192 games I'd prefer to play instead of Chess.
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Ray
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panderson wrote:

What question does the rank answer?

"I personally like this game?" or "The design of the game is good/bad
per se?"

The ratings are not supposed to be about the design, but about how much the rater wants to play the game.
 
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Arthur
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msaari wrote:
panderson wrote:
Why chess is ranked only 193 ?


Well, I could probably come up with 192 games I'd prefer to play instead of Chess.

Do it, then.
 
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brian
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OldestManOnMySpace wrote:
msaari wrote:
panderson wrote:
Why chess is ranked only 193 ?


Well, I could probably come up with 192 games I'd prefer to play instead of Chess.

Do it, then.

The 156 games listed under his collection would be a good place to start. Then he only needs to come up with about 40 more.
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paolo f anderson
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msaari wrote:
panderson wrote:
Why chess is ranked only 193 ?


Well, I could probably come up with 192 games I'd prefer to play instead of Chess.


I personally own Twilight Struggle, War of the Ring, Age of Napoleon,
paths of Glory and Time Agent.

I strongly like these games, but I never considered them on the same
class of Chess: chess (or similar games) is much deeper.

It would be interesting to introduce a rank for "flawed game designs" ...



 
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Herb Petro
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panderson wrote:
chess (or similar games) is much deeper.


For purposes of discussion, what do you mean by "deeper"?

What do you consider similar games? Do you mean abstract games? Games with no dice/cards/randomness?

Thanks....
 
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Mikko Saari
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OldestManOnMySpace wrote:

msaari wrote:

Well, I could probably come up with 192 games I'd prefer to play instead of Chess.

Do it, then.


Sure, I can even double that number! I've rated Chess as 4. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewcollection.php3?username=ms... lists 384 games I've rated higher than that. Indeed, most of the time I would prefer most of those games over Chess, which I find rather uninteresting and unpleasant.

Sure, it's a great game, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or rate it high...
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Walt
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panderson wrote:
What question does the rank answer?

"I personally like this game?" or "The design of the game is good/bad
per se?"

The former, as you'll see if you look at the ratings help:
Rating from wiki wrote:
* 10 - Outstanding. Always want to play and expect this will never change.
* 9 - Excellent game. Always want to play it.
* 8 - Very good game. I like to play. Probably I'll suggest it and will never turn down a game.
* 7 - Good game, usually willing to play.
* 6 - Ok game, some fun or challenge at least, will play sporadically if in the right mood.
* 5 - Average game, slightly boring, take it or leave it.
* 4 - Not so good, it doesn't get me but could be talked into it on occasion.
* 3 - Likely won't play this again although could be convinced. Bad.
* 2 - Extremely annoying game, won't play this ever again.
* 1 - Defies description of a game. You won't catch me dead playing this. Clearly broken.

BoardGameGeek is a site for people who play many games. Lifestyle games, which can only be played seriously if played almost exclusively, tend to rate very low. Other examples are bridge, go, and shogi.
 
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Brendan
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There is a huge misconception that a game like Chess is a "lifestyle game" that can only be played seriously/exclusively.

Certainly it can be played as such. So can MtG. Really, so could Puerto Rico if it gained a large enough following. So what?

As far as the difficulty of learning to play Chess well -- yes, it is more difficult than Carcassonne or other similar games. It's also more difficult to learn to play well (but not to learn to play) than Puerto Rico. But is it really that hard?

The computer game Chessmaster 10 comes with an animated*, voice-over academy section done by Josh Waitzkin (the subject of the film Searching for Bobby Fischer). You could go through this course in anywhere from a week to a month in the evenings and have a very solid understanding of Chess principles. Enough to be a master? Certainly not. Enough to counter traps laid by experienced players who want to trap newbies? Probably not. But enough to understand the game well enough to enjoy it? Certainly. I am by no means a strong Chess player, but I can thoroughly enjoy a good game with the understanding that I have so far.

*By animated, I mean that the pieces move on the screen as he says what happens. It's far more approachable and understandable than the long pure text move lists found in books or online.

Anyway, other people have made good comments about the ratings, but I just wanted to respond to that point.
 
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Ben Foy
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Lol, I like chess but I got too good to enjoy it...

Its fun to breach someone's defenses and mate them. But beyond a certain point you had to go to chess clubs to find good opponents. They either wanted to play 5 minute chess or play tournament chess. I didn't like 5 minute chess. I didn't like being rushed so 30 minute tournament chess was out. And though the tournament games were fun, there was alot of downtime between games, usually over 1 hour.

There also wasn't the comraderie what exists with other games and I got bored of playing the same game over and over. That was 20 years ago, now I don't have the patience to play.
 
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Walt
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Biarien wrote:
There is a huge misconception that a game like Chess is a "lifestyle game" that can only be played seriously/exclusively.

You're reversing what I said (not that what you're saying isn't true): if you want to play chess with regular chess players and have a chance in hell, you need to study opening moves and mid- and end-game tactics extensively. If you want to play most of the game of the BGG top 100, no such commitment is needed for most games, though it may help for a heavier (slipperier?) game like PR.
 
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Daniel Karp
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panderson wrote:
I strongly like these games, but I never considered them on the same
class of Chess: chess (or similar games) is much deeper.

And if "deep" is what is important to you, you should rate Chess accordingly. Personally, I care about fun, and for me, that makes chess a "5".
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Brendan
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Tall_Walt wrote:
You're reversing what I said (not that what you're saying isn't true)


My apologies -- I think I did misread your post a bit. I think it was partly due to seeing that sentiment (the one I thought I read) espoused in the other thread, so I just read yours as saying the same thing. It still sounds like you're calling Chess a "lifestyle game" no matter how it is played though. Oh well.
 
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Walt
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Biarien wrote:
It still sounds like you're calling Chess a "lifestyle game" no matter how it is played though. Oh well.

Well, it is one of those few games regularly played in a lifestyle manner (a somewhat odd term "lifestyle" but common on BGG). I have played five minute chess slightly competitively against unrated players, but I doubt I could have succeeded with a rated player, even if I did get out of his opening book.

In any case, the average player of any game isn't likely to rate chess highly simply because chess is so difficult to play at the level of even a beginning-but-dedicated chess player. I suppose part of that is the large range of play level in chess (and go is more so), but I think part is because of the level of abstraction in chess tactics, I won't even have an understanding of how I lost or how to improve. If a backgammon beginner plays an expert, he at least has clues about what's going on: there isn't some series of captures, forced moves, and checks that mysteriously (to a novice) results in a loss--the start of the sequence being forgotten by the novice and maybe not understandable anyway.

Also, noting that chess is rated 7.1 and go is 7.9, rule elegance probably comes into play.
 
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Ed Sherman
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The reason chess is ranked so low? Because no one has solved the mystery of four-player chess.
 
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Malachi Brown
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edosan wrote:
The reason chess is ranked so low? Because no one has solved the mystery of four-player chess.

That's really odd,I could have sworn someone had.Oh well.
 
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