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Subject: Any 4 Player Scenarios out there? rss

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elite six
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I'm sure EE is customizable enough to create one, but I was wondering if someone already had made a hypothetical scenario that allows for 4 players...

I'm thinking any four player scenario would revolve around Germany, USSR, UK, and then either US or Italy as the fourth player.

Not sure, with Italy there are problems that it has a wee bit low production, and the fact that it's force pool is a bit small. I was thinking about maybe allowing for some "conscription" rules for any nation's force pool where they could get units from countries they conquered but have to pay 1 additional step per unit. (Thus Italy could conquer Greece and start producing "neutral" units under her control).

The problem with the US is that it might be a bit boring since you have to wait and plan an amphibious assault (much like what UK needs to do) and after all that planning you may well get ejected from the beaches all having to sit there and do it over again.

Of course any such 4 player scenario would hugely require a laxing of many political considerations such as allowing US to enter early, allowing Italy to start with wartime production, etc, to keep thumb twidling down to a minimum.

Any thoughts? I know EE works great with 3 players but our group has about 4 so 4 is really the sweet spot and we all love the core mechanics so
 
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John Richert
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Re:Any 4 Player Scenarios out there?
elitesix (#42736),

I would use what Third Reich used, separate the USSR and French players, have France play the USA when they come in.
 
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Jesse Evans
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Re:Any 4 Player Scenarios out there?
elitesix (#42736),

I've heard that someone out there has split the Axis by dividing up Germany East/West with Italy going to the Western player.

You need to come to some agreement on who gets what production, unit transfers, and special action use but it's workable and can speed up play (Germany generally has more work to do)

Longer term - when I finish Asia Engulfed the combined game will easily accomidate from 2 to 5 players.

laugh
 
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Jon M
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Re:Any 4 Player Scenarios out there?
elitesix (#42736),

I would start the game with the 1942 scenario in the play book but play it out till the end. One player is axis then split the others to UK, USA and Soviets. This way no one has downtime when they are not at war, no complicated house rules are required and everyone gets to be involved. Since the British player has fewer WERPS to spend I would give them control of all fleet assets so the USA player needs maximum co-operation from the UK. This set up would then lend itself to some good disagreements on strategy between the allies. Perhaps give the allies a maximum of five minutes to discuss strategy at the beginning of each turn. This will lengthen the game but since it starts in 1942 this shouldn't be a problem.
 
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Chris Farrell
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Re:Any 4 Player Scenarios out there?
Jon_1066 (#42866),

There really is not enough for the players to do to separate the Western Allies into US and UK players. In the 1942 scenario, there is really only just barely enough work for the US/UK to keep just one player engaged, never mind two. A lot of what you are doing is buying SW assets, which is important but not as time consuming or involving as pushing around huge armies.

The best 4-player split is to have two German players, but that has some significant difficulties also and can slow the game to a crawl if the two players end up discussing every tiny detail, as will tend to happen. Dividing the Germans into East and West/Mediterranean/Overall is weak too because the Western player will have little to do unless an anti-Western powers strategy is attempted (which will almost certainly happen if the West/Med player is also the overall commander ).

Bottom line, I think the game works best with 2 or 3. 4 players is going to be a real stretch under any circumstances.
 
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elite six
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Re:Any 4 Player Scenarios out there?
cfarrell (#42948),

Yeah, I think the only perfect solution would to do a hypothetical scenario, so you could make it in such a way that 4 players playing different countries could stay engaged.

I really think that there is a possibility of having this by just relaxing most of the political consideration (Except the big four, Vichy France Declaration but not "Axis respect for Vichy territory" (would limit Italien player too much), USSR-Germany Non-Aggression Pact, Italien Morale Collapse, US entry into the war in '42) and just going with the stock 1939. So basically, anyone can declare war on anyone except USSR on Germany (But corresponding USSR can be busy taking over neutrals). Maybe add the fourth player as Italy, and maybe give her home resource areas 6 production instead of 5 each and have her force pool increased to 21 or 22 (+1 3 step armor and +1 3 step infantry, I had 2 spare blocks). To counter the fact that Italy can go crazy in through France and Vichy territory and declare war early, give Britian lend lease from US of 3d6 instead of d6.

Of course, it needs playtesting, but sadly I am heading to law school soon and won't have time (probably) or people (definitely) to playtest this out .
 
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Chris Farrell
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Re:Any 4 Player Scenarios out there?
You know, I love EE as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure about this desire to shoehorn a 4th player in.

Why don't you just buy a 2nd copy of the game and play two boards of the game with 2 players?

I mean, there are 3 great powers here: Germany, US/UK, and Russia. Given the abstractness of SW, US/UK make no sense to split. Who else is the fourth going to play? France? Italy? Poland? These are all bit players. France is dead meat, and Germany's economy is over five times the size of Italy in '42.

I wouldn't try to force the game to be somthing it isn't.
 
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elite six
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Re:Any 4 Player Scenarios out there?
cfarrell (#42990),

Imho, if not for the rule preventing Italy from starting at Wartime production and going into France (and thereby Spain), she could easily handle Spain, Yugoslavia, Greece, and Turkey (after war with the Soviets start) one after another with a little bit of defense in the Desert (If she goes Spain/Gib, she doesn't need to hold out long before the British supply line goes to hell, if she goes Turkey->Mid East, she has to wait for Germany to have begun Barbarossa but usually she is on Turkey's doorstep in 41' anyway).

I think the rule saying any resources Italy conquers become German (even if she conquers by herself) only adds to the 5x times Italy's production effect. If you meant historically, however, I did say earlier a hypothetical scenario
 
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Chris Farrell
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Re:Any 4 Player Scenarios out there?
elitesix (#43021),

Sorry, if you think the Italians can handle the Turks or Spanish *and* the British in the desert on their own, I'm afraid you are mistaken. It would depend entirely on Germany deciding to go after Britain instead of Russia. Look at the terrain in Turkey. Even if the Italians had unrestricted production, and they were given an adequate supply of armor units in their force pool, and the Germans are cooperative, they still wouldn't have nearly enough force to both have an adequate defense against the Brits in the Desert and on the homeland, and take out the Turks or Spaniards.

Being an interesting country to play means you have to be able to drive events to some degree at some point. Italy has minimal, if not zero, capacity to do this (remember thaat historically, they couldn't even take out the Greeks without humiliating themselves, never mind the Turks). What they will be able to accomplish is virtually dictated by German strategy and actions.

In all this, I should say that there are some wargamers who don't mind playing a position in which they do very little and don't have to worry about much and mainly just get to watch, in which case Italy would be OK. But it would even be a lousy learning position, since it has so little capability.

So I'm still going with my two boards of two-player games solution Much more fun for everyone concerned.
 
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