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Commands & Colors: Medieval» Forums » Sessions

Subject: Battle on the Green Fork rss

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Mark McG
Australia
Penshurst
NSW
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So I have considered many times how BattleLore could be incorporated into C&C Medieval, and by coincidence I came across my copy of Battles of Westeros, and realised that as a leader focused game, that could work better.

So first a nod to Pete Belli for his alt-history themed games, though this might be alt-fantasy I suppose. The premise of the battle is that Robb Stark doesn’t send Roose Bolton with a sacrificial force down the Green Fork, but instead he confronts Tywin Lannister for a decisive battle of Lancaster vs York… err Stark vs Lannister . Ducking this battle pretty much was the beginning of the end for him, despite his apparent success.

So I pretty much loaded every BoW figure I had onto the BoW map (15 x 11 hexes) and used the CCM rules, dice and cards. Short version, everything worked fine, but it was impossible to fit 4 cavalry into 1 hex, so I used just 3 all round (just like BattleLore). In many ways I think that was better.

The Unit conversion was pretty easy, with most being standard CCM units
House Unit Name CCM Special
Lannister Westerlands Archers LB
Lannister Lannisport Guard MI
Lannister Lannister Heavy Infantry HI
Lannister Casterly Rock Cavaliers HC
Stark Northmen Archers LB
Stark War Host of the North MI Stature rule NA. All Swords hit cavalry
Stark Stark Kennelmaster AUX 3 figures strength, in battle roll 2d per figure
Stark Winterfell Riders MC
Vale Burned Men AUX in battle, roll 1d per figure
Vale Stone Crows W
Vale Black Ears LC

Also required a few special rules
1. Foot leaders can only attach to Foot units, and can move 0-2 alone.

The setup, with Stark on the Left and Lannister on the Right

The North

The West

So I drew on the setp from the Westeros wiki
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_on_the_Green_Fo...
pretty good on the Lannisters, and the Starks are the alt-history part anyway.

Battle opens up according to Tywins plan, to draw the Starks along the river and then encircle them For this he has deployed the rabble from the Vale, and Gregor sends them off to fight.

Robb Stark however also has a plan (based on a Leadership Centre card) that involves pushing up the Centre. Accordingly he brings up his cavalry behind the War Host.

Trying to keep to plan, Kevan Lannister leads his Guardsmen into the Left flank of the Stark center, and the Stark respond with a charge which strikes them down. Kevan flees to the rear.

In turn, Tywin leads two units of Casterly Rock Cavaliers plus one unit of Black Ears in a charge on the Stark riders, overturning them, the Stark cavalry nearly destroyed and Robb Stark racing to the rear.

Tywin dominates the centre, but in a series of bloody clashes with the War Host lead by Maege Mormont, the Lannister and Stark centers are decimated, leave Tywin and 1 Cavalier dominating the map center alone.

Lannister now seems well ahead, and a last push will win the battle. A fortuitous Mounted Charge sends the Lannister Cavaliers up the Right flank under Adam Marbrand, and into the Center with Tywin. Tywin risks it all for swift victory. Smashing down some Kennelmasters, he rides into an Ambush, and the trap closes around him as Rickard Karstark launches an inspired foot onslaught to cut off his escape. Rickard leads well, finishing off the Cavaliers and then Tywin Lannister himself. Stark have bounced!

However on the Stark left, the cavaliers are sweeping the field, though taking loses. Here also the cavaliers push too hard, are cut off, and destroyed, with Adam Marbrand falling as well.

The Lannisters regroup and push on, claiming the final banner to win 10-7, the Starks flee the field. All the Stark cavalry lies dead on the field, and 3 units of cavaliers as well. Been a very hard day for the Lannister leadership, with Tywin killed and Marbrand captured. A tactical Lannister win, but with Tywin dead, and Robb Stark still alive, strategically a win for the King of the North unless a ruthless Lannister enforcer can be found to hold the Western allies in thrall.
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Marc Puig
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Thanks for the battle, text and pictures.

A couple of things:

1) Isn t it a bit confussing to mix several C&C related systems?

2) Where is Pete Belli? I love his battles, minis and rules but it seems as if he ans his work has disappeared?

Thanks.

By the way, there are two pictures about others games.
 
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my eye
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Quote:
2) Where is Pete Belli? I love his battles, minis and rules but it seems as if he ans his work has disappeared?

Pete pulled the plug.

Edit: Fixed code.
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Mark McG
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mapiu2001 wrote:
Thanks for the battle, text and pictures.

A couple of things:

1) Isn t it a bit confussing to mix several C&C related systems?

2) Where is Pete Belli? I love his battles, minis and rules but it seems as if he ans his work has disappeared?

Thanks.

By the way, there are two pictures about others games.

Fixed the pictures, what happens when I hit Submit instead of Preview.. sorry.

This doesn't really mix 2 system, it is the C&C Medieval game, those rules, dice and cards. It does replace the blocks with BoW miniatures, and there are some special rules for some of the units and leaders. I do borrow somewhat from BattleLore in making those special rules, because I know they work.

Essentially an experiment looking at how CCM goes in different periods, in this instance a War of the (Weste)Roses era. I didn't get a great deal of use out of BoW, so nice to repurpose the pieces.

Didn't know Pete had "pulled the plug". Pity.
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Michal K
Poland
Warsaw
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Very interesting concept. I really like what you did!
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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Minedog3 wrote:
and there are some special rules for some of the units and leaders. I do borrow somewhat from BattleLore in making those special rules, because I know they work.

What are the special unit and/or leader rules from BattleLore? I've played, but not too much or too recently. I liked the "Lore" system (I think it's called), and I only remember the leaders letting you use lore for playing tactics cards (which I'm assuming you didn't use).

I never thought Battles of Westeros looked dynamic/clean enough compared to Ancients (too many tokens, I remember thinking, but I've never played it), and BattleLore had too much going on (I liked the Lore cards as an idea, but in practice it distracted from the beautiful simplicity of Ancients).

Big shame about Pete, too. I didn't realize all his stuff was gone. Has he reposted it anywhere else? Does he have a personal webpage, for instance?
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giuseppe armagno
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Beautiful report! And a magnificent game!


When I read that you would use BoW,i thought:
wow! - finally the deck of cards is determined by the leaders in the battle!

How they really fought in the Middle Ages,
every single commander had "his own" army.
 
Form the battle deck with cards
belonging to the families involved in the conflict
(as in BoW)
it would have been a nice (and historical) medieval game experience.


Still a pleasant read;
and still a beautiful game (CCM)!
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Mark McG
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no Lore rules from BattleLore, though the Inspired Actions are somewhat like BattleLore, Foot Onslaught for example.

The main draw from BattleLore are the weapon cards.
So the basic BL units are identical to the CCM units (except cavalry are 4 strength)

Where it gets varied is around the weaponry
So a Medium Infantry (MI) battles with 3d
Give the MI a spear, and they get an extra +1d on battleback
Give the MI a halberd and they ignore stature, and +1d on battleback
Give the MI a Long Sword and they ignore staure

it gives a lot of unit variety


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Mark McG
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aringarosa wrote:

When I read that you would use BoW,i thought:
wow! - finally the deck of cards is determined by the leaders in the battle!

How they really fought in the Middle Ages,
every single commander had "his own" army.
 
Form the battle deck with cards
belonging to the families involved in the conflict
(as in BoW)
it would have been a nice (and historical) medieval game experience.

BoW does use a Command deck builder based on leaders present (and a common deck). It was a decent idea, but the BoW implementation had some oddities in this regard.

Firstly, the "leader" Command card could be used by any leader, which seemed to me to defeat the concept.

Secondly, the turn structure of BoW, where units normally activate just once per turn meant you rarely got a sequence of cards going as you do in C&C games.

For my money, the Leadership cards in CCM and the Inspired Actions do as good (if not better) job of representing medieval leadership in a easy set of rules.

I don't really want to get into BoW rules discussion, this was a CCM game using BoW bits as substitutes.
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giuseppe armagno
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I agree on everything.

It was just my survey!

And on the other hand, the best medieval historical game sequences to which I refer include a medieval games series of a publisher that I did not want to mention before and I will not quote now

this is chez-CCM, of course
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Jon Snow
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cool Nice work from one of my favorite and historically most knowledgeable BGG posting pals. Have a Foster's, mate!
 
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