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Dune» Forums » Rules

Subject: Need for a Revised Edition? rss

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Claudio Hornblower
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kissgg wrote:
slashing wrote:
kissgg wrote:
Why should there only be one definitive set of rules?
So that when you play with a new group, you can agree to play Dune and know what you're getting into. No, "But that's not how we play" conversations.
But that's not how we play!
That IS how we play!!
 
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Bill Grant
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gszaszko wrote:
But I also shouldn't be having to guess at something as fundamental as 'what can/can't a Karama card do?'.
This is the crux of it for me. Rules are hard to get right 100% of the time, but it seems reasonable to expect that something like "When can I use this karama card?" would not be a reach could be addressed.

I'd also say veterans have a leg to stand on, they can just say "I've played this game 50 times; this is the rule" and even if they are just speculating they will be given the benefit of the doubt.

I would be saying "We are all learning together, I've just watched a few videos on this and read the rulebook, and I think the rule is X" and I will be eaten alive by the rules lawyers. Especially if that ruling is in my favor.
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Zerth
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This thread encapsulates why Dune is my #1 game of all time. The rules discussions are part of its enjoyment.

I can compare it only to Cosmic Encounter (by the same designers) in this regard, there is no other game in the market that is such an organic entity by itself.
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Bill Grant
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kissgg wrote:
This thread encapsulates why Dune is my #1 game of all time. The rules discussions are part of its enjoyment.

I can compare it only to Cosmic Encounter (by the same designers) in this regard, there is no other game in the market that is such an organic entity by itself.
I love Cosmic Encounter, but I don’t feel like the rules are ambiguous there. There is debate about balance, and like the designers I am completely fine to excuse these.

Here I read the rules and I have fundamental confusion in how to conduct parts of the game. It’s not remotely the same.

And just to be clear I’m not begrudging anyone for liking the game as is. I’m just saying there is a game here I would love to dive into, but am hesitant to until some basic things are presented more clearly. I’m fine to wait, build myself, or ultimately pass on. There are plenty of games out there. This one just happens to be up my ally despite one personal issue.
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Andrew Smith
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Xaqery wrote:
I would love something that is not in your poll.

I want a deluxe version of the game that is only one set of rules. No basic, no advanced. All the rules, as Joy suggested, written knowing that there is only one version of the game. Definitive. With lots of examples.

I really love some of what GF9 has done. But my god, they had a chance to take a beloved game with lots of rules and do it right. They just didnt. You can tell they wanted to. They have a rule book, a guide, a FAQ and videos. They paid to have them illustrated and the layout is good. At first blush you think they did a good job. But when you dig in and read it its rubbish.

So first and foremost I want someone that is GREAT at writing rules and creating examples to take on this even newer deluxe version.
Can please get a deluxe edition of this game? I would love an option for the original retro art shields, they look pretty cool. It would be a dream come true if we got all official expansions and the widely accepted fan expansions would be amazing as well. WE NEED THE DUEL EXPANSION, WE FIGHT TO THE DEATH! There no board game in history that can compare in terms of thematic setting like the Duel expansion + base game together! Thank you... Bill Eberle, Jack Kittredge, and Peter Olotka for making the best board game to ever exist!
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Etienne Roussel
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Billgrant wrote:
kissgg wrote:
This thread encapsulates why Dune is my #1 game of all time. The rules discussions are part of its enjoyment.

I can compare it only to Cosmic Encounter (by the same designers) in this regard, there is no other game in the market that is such an organic entity by itself.
I love Cosmic Encounter, but I don’t feel like the rules are ambiguous there. There is debate about balance, and like the designers I am completely fine to excuse these.

Here I read the rules and I have fundamental confusion in how to conduct parts of the game. It’s not remotely the same.

And just to be clear I’m not begrudging anyone for liking the game as is. I’m just saying there is a game here I would love to dive into, but am hesitant to until some basic things are presented more clearly. I’m fine to wait, build myself, or ultimately pass on. There are plenty of games out there. This one just happens to be up my ally despite one personal issue.
One question you want to ask yourself before buying a game is: do I need a good rulebook to enjoy a game or does this game need clear rules to be enjoyed?

A lot of games nowadays have great designers/publisher teams behind them to ensure balance using 1000+ computer simulated games as well as clear writing of the rules. Most of the time though, it is necessary because these swiss chronograph precision machines could be broken with one minor rule change or number change on a card or mistake on the knowledge of the iconography or for whatever reason…

Wanna hear some veteran on this new edition? It fails to eradicate a lot of ambiguities in the rules that have been pointed out for 40 years. Still, the game remains one the best. Why? Because no rule interpretation can actually break the game in what it has to offer in terms of strategy, theme and fun!

Bottomline is: if you need a good rulebook to enjoy a game then Dune is not for you BUT if you’re happy with a few rules details that might need some interpretation (mostly fun-driven) without actually breaking the game in any way then this beast is one of the most rewarding ever.
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Paul Kitchin
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Mighito wrote:
This Game of critical acclaim is one I would love to add to my collection. But I can't imagine teaching it to new players and dealing with all the fuzzy rules and numerous caveats. (The amount of rule clarifications needed on this game and the overly specific nature of those clarifications is galling)
“Galling” perfectly describes my reaction to this ruleset too. The rules writing is incredibly poorly done in a technical sense. They even added new ambiguities to issues that had been clear in the 1979 rules! 🤬 I have no faith that the ambiguities will ever be satisfactorily officially fixed. Even the FAQ only half answers some issues, forcing us to try to infer many rules answers.

However, the game is fun and engaging and you should buy it. You’ll just need to accept that as the owner you’ll need to do your best to fill in the gaps and contradictions in the rules. The WBC tournament rules for the old game are a useful set of suggestions.

I just ran a first game and teaching the basic rules and an overview of each faction’s special rules (to avoid unfun surprises) took an hour despite me practicing the teach in advanced. It was still worth it, and the game was long but fun and exciting from start to finish.

If the state of the rules is a deal-breaker and if you are not attached to the Frank Herbert theme, then Rex is a cleaner but less inspired implementation of the same game.
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Jay M
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One thing you need to do to play Dune is to quickly resolve a rules question with something that makes sense, make a ruling, and press on. It helps if there is a senior player that's willing to just make the call.

Say as many of them out loud in advance as you can, just make a ruling.

It's a bit like rule-making in real life, about how laws evolved.

(Not suitable for someone who wants to win their first game, or fully exploit a corner case for advantage. But is suitable for someone that just wants to conduct a smooth game, keep it moving, get done in a reasonable time, and have a good time).



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Craig Robinson
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Creator of the thread here! (Thanks to everyone for their answers and the good discussion)

I think GF9 needs to be applauded for bringing this game back and for what they have produced.

In general, I have people who would be keen on a game like this but they have little boardgame experience. The issue is accessibility. I REALLY want to add this game to my collection but I am happy to wait for GF9 to release a 2nd Edition.

THIS IS MY HOPE:
The movie is coming out end of 2020. More people will then have the reference for this game to "intuitively click". It would be great if the rules are clarified/slightly-improved by then and that they use art from the movie itself. I think this would make the game EXTREMELY accessible.
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Rob McArthur
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Mighito wrote:

THIS IS MY HOPE:
The movie is coming out end of 2020. More people will then have the reference for this game to "intuitively click". It would be great if the rules are clarified/slightly-improved by then and that they use art from the movie itself. I think this would make the game EXTREMELY accessible.
Some of us are still scarred from the Dune Sting Edition.
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Samy
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Sphere wrote:
Dune has been played for decades in tournament settings by serious players. God only knows how that could happen, right?
Those tournament settings have had to iron out all the timing and rule ambiguities into an actual solid set of house rules (WBC). GF9 just casually ignored all that progress and reset the rules nearly to its original, problematic form.

40 years of epic rules discussions on Dune are actually being recreated here with the new edition, since the rules barely cleared any of it up. If anything this shows to me that the generations are exactly the same.
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Jay M
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robmcarthur2001 wrote:
Mighito wrote:

THIS IS MY HOPE:
The movie is coming out end of 2020. More people will then have the reference for this game to "intuitively click". It would be great if the rules are clarified/slightly-improved by then and that they use art from the movie itself. I think this would make the game EXTREMELY accessible.
Some of us are still scarred from the Dune Sting Edition.
Hey! That's the one I have (and originally bought back in 1984). Sting Dune Rules!
 
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Andrew Smith
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Sting Rules!
 
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Bill the Pill
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I’d buy the nine player version, either complete or as an expansion.
 
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