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Subject: 3rd edition highlights rss

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Jeff Hiatt
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This updated from July 7th on FFG website.

I am going to save the juicy details of the system for a future rant. As I am actually writing the rules for TI3 right now, perhaps I will actually post the new rules in their entirety within the next 4 weeks or so. Until then, here are some (shocking I hope) spoilers:

TI3 has no ‘progression chart’
TI3 has no Lazax Gold Credits
TI3 has only 3 Phases, the “Title Phase”, the “Action Phase”, and the ‘Status Phase’
TI3 eliminates about 90% of the down-time between players.
TI3 introduces a new resource/game dynamic called ‘Command Points’ which sets your tactical flexibility against your individual fleet sizes.
TI3 has a ‘built in time-limit’ (handled in a unique way) for a maximum of 10 rounds.
TI3 uses two other major new terms: “Titles” and “Actions Counters”

Veteran TI players may be shocked by the above revelations. I am very, very excited about these changes, however, which I feel bring the TI3 design up to the best of today’s design standards. I look forward to the discussion after the game hits the thermal layer.

Now i have not played TI previously but became intrigued and nearly bought a TI2 until i saw TI3 was coming out soon. Despite my lack of TI experience, the changes seem extreme enough, one might consider it a new game. I imagine the dynamics of the will bear little resemblance to the previous versions. What I hope is that some TI and TI2 experience players will coment on these changes and how they will affect the game.

thanks, Jeff
 
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Nelson Lamoureux
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Re:3rd edition highlights
valthalion (#44624),

Reading this, it does sound very interesting. But until we can read the rules, it's only marketing propaganda to my eyes. Let me explain.

It's interesting and certainly very appealing to write that "90% of the down-time between players" has been eliminated. How was it done? That's the real question. Also, we still have to read the rules to verify it on our own!

So, as a TI2 player, and I will admit that I'm extremely interested in TI3, I will reserve my judgement until I have read the new rules.
 
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Dane Peacock
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Re:3rd edition highlights
valthalion (#44624),

No progression chart? I liked the progression chart.
 
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Nicholas Jost
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Re:3rd edition highlights
It actually sounds like they may be trying to work in some of the good (put poorly implemented) ideas from Thunder's Edge.
 
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David Coutts
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Re:3rd edition highlights
valthalion (#44624),

Having spent a lot of money of the original, plus most of the expansions, what am I supposed to do with all the old stuff? Effectively I will own a game that nobody will want to buy, and nobody will want to play - is that right?

At least when Avalon Hill went from Squad Leader to ASL some of the components (boards, some markers) were re-usable between versions...

Will FFG offer an upgrade kit, or is that not feasible? What about a discount for those like me that invested so heavily in the earlier (now useless) versions of TI?

To sum up, I'm feeling a bit miffed. At the same time, the new version looks great, I love space empire games, and I'll probably have to buy it...

Regards,

David
 
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Andy B
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Re:3rd edition highlights
dacoutts (#79720),

I don't understand what the problem is. Is your first edition now unplayable?
 
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David Coutts
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Re:3rd edition highlights
UncleBuck (#80199),

In a way the old version did become unplayable, much like when Cross Of Iron, Crescendo Of Doom etc expanded the original Squad Leader. It became tortuous figuring out which rules were still valid, and which had been updated by the later modules. I stopped playing Twilight Imperium and played Throneworld instead - a much cleaner game design.

So, really, I do welcome the new version if it removes that problem with the old version and expansions. I just regret having shelled out all the money for the old version knowing now just how imperfect it is. I wish I'd never bought the old one. The old version simply represents a game being developed at public expense...

The new version, from what I gather so far, is a totally revamped game...so revamped it's considered a new game. It sounds much more playable than the old version, and hopefully will require a smaller FAQ, and fewer game patches (called by FFG "Expansions") like the old one did.

Like I said, I'll probably eventually buy the new one anyway...and the old imperfect copy will gather dust. I had hoped I could salvage something from the old version to use with the new version, or use the new rulebook with the old version, but neither possibility seems likely.

Regards,

David

 
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Ben Newell
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Re:3rd edition highlights
dacoutts (#80331),
Isn't that a little harsh? The whole, The old version simply represents a game being developed at public expense... thing? I mean, I understand your frustration, but that's just the nature of being a consumer. Seems like you could accuse any game of being a development version of a later game that is more polished and refined. Was Modern Art a public beta, because Knizia made a different auction game called Ra later? I know that's stretching a bit, but I still am uncomfortable with that sentence. Maybe because I work in the PC Game industry, which frequently has the same accusations thrown at it (unfairly, IMHO).

Seems to me that they made an ambitious game. Lots of people liked it. People kept asking for it. Years later, designers looked at their finished game, and realized that there were a lot of things that could have been better. Demographics showed that people would buy an updated version. They made it.

Bad games get made all the time. This one may have originally been a bad game, (don't know, never played it), but it's being remade. Would it be better if they called it something else, slightly rethemed? I see this happen with many games, but mostly abstract or loosely themed games. People make refinements to game engines, get new ideas. A complex world like the one TI uses couldn't have a new coat of paint slapped on so easily.

I have quite a few games that I really liked, but got frustrated with due to problems I perceived with the game. I would love to see new versions of those (finished) games, that address them.
 
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David Coutts
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Re:3rd edition highlights
eosapien (#80349),

Yeah, you're right, it's probably a bit harsh. I'll get over it.

cry

I agree with your other comments.

David
 
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Paul Ollenberger
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Re:3rd edition highlights
dacoutts (#80441),
Hey, I'd come over for an old-fashioned 1st edition play! 1st edition in my opinion is still the most "in debth" version, especially with all the expansions!
 
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Lewis Goldberg
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dacoutts wrote:
... I wish I'd never bought the old one. The old version simply represents a game being developed at public expense...


Captain Necro has arrived! And on the 10th anniversary of this post, no less.

All a coincidence I assure you. I was just doing some reading up on TI3 and ran across this. Couldn't help remarking that this is a bit like saying that every model year of vehicle is a car developed at public expense, from them buying last year's model. whistle
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David Damerell
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lgoldberg wrote:
dacoutts wrote:
... I wish I'd never bought the old one. The old version simply represents a game being developed at public expense...

All a coincidence I assure you. I was just doing some reading up on TI3 and ran across this. Couldn't help remarking that this is a bit like saying that every model year of vehicle is a car developed at public expense, from them buying last year's model. whistle


Bit unfair to tick someone off for a comment they made and retracted ten years ago... but also I think your analogy is invalid. There isn't an alternative of having improvements backported into your existing motorcar, but (before the release of TI3) it may have seemed that the alternative was another TI2 expansion.

Personally, I was more miffed by TI2, which was basically TI1 in a funny hat, with the rule that influence lets you determine the order of individual turns removed.
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