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Board Game: Time of Legends: Joan of Arc
Time of Legends: Joan of Arc» Forums » Crowdfunding

Subject: Pascal Bernard’s IP dispute- hopefully we can hear his side of this. rss

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Ken
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I would hope that Mr. Pascal Bernard, would respond to this, as I am always one that likes to hear both sides. Possibly he would comment on this post regarding this update. I love the game and I hope for an agreement that both sides find fair and amicable.

Mythic Games wrote:

Joan of Arc 1.5 Update 57 1/3/20

Dear backers,

As you may have noticed, our Kickstarter page for Time of Legends: Joan of Arc 1.5 has been “frozen” since December 16, 2019. We did everything we could to try and resolve this problem amicably before it went public, but unfortunately, we couldn’t do it despite all our efforts.

Before going any further, it should be noted that we are very confident in the upcoming resolution of this issue, since we are advised by a very good lawyer, who is specializing in this field and has worked with the biggest game publishers. We have also discussed with fellow publishers, who have given us good advice and also share the same confidence with us.

A summary of the problem

Pascal Bernard is suing Mythic Games for non-payment of part of his royalties, and therefore requests the cancellation of the contract which binds us to him. Mythic Games, from their part, are simply asking Pascal Bernard to establish an invoice of the right amount to pay him the balance of what they owe him.

According to the contract, it was agreed that Pascal Bernard would receive the balance of his remuneration after the final delivery of the game. The contract specifies that Pascal Bernard will receive a percentage of the Net Turnover Excluding Tax. When the game was delivered at the end of the summer, Pascal Bernard sent us an incorrect invoice based on the amount displayed by Game on Tabletop to which he applied this percentage directly. We dispute the basis of his calculation since the percentage was not applied to the Net Turnover Excluding Tax.

To give you a simple example, the shipping costs paid by the backers shouldn’t be part of a turnover on which Pascal Bernard can ask for royalties, it is the same for taxes or customs fees, etc.

How should we calculate the remuneration base?

One of Pascal Bernard's challenges concerns the remuneration base.

The contract mentions that this remuneration relates to the net turnover excluding taxes (cf. article 10 of the contract) for “the work”. Let’s go back to the definition of Net Turnover Excluding Tax:

- Net: means that fees and royalties must be withdrawn. These as an example are the amounts collected by Kickstarter and Game On Tabletop.

- Turnover: this is the amount of total sales made and actually collected by Mythic Games. This amount is lower than the amount displayed on Kickstarter because some transactions are not successful (expired credit cards, unfunded bank accounts, refund requests ...).

- Excluding Tax: means taxes must be excluded. Therefore, VAT and other comparable taxes must be withdrawn.

Other elements to take into account:

- The card sleeves are not branded « Time of Legends: Joan of Arc », these are generic game accessories that we sold as intermediaries during the Pledge Manager, they therefore do not have to be included in the calculation of net sales.

- Mythic Games sold the Time of Legends: Joan of Arc role-playing game during the same Kickstarter as the board game but on behalf of another publisher. According to the agreement with the role playing game publisher, Mythic Games' remuneration for the role-playing game is a percentage of the margin achieved on this game. Mythic Games therefore collected a certain amount for the role-playing publisher during the Kickstarter of the board game, but the final sum that Mythic Games actually cashed for this role-playing game, the one that counts for the base calculation on which the royalty percentage should apply, is much lower.

The position of Mythic Games

We work with many authors who are all happy to work with us. We have always paid them, on the games that we published and delivered, on those being delivered and even on the games in preparation for this year. We have always paid the agreed amounts and had good relations with all our service providers and partners.

In this case, we are sticking to the contract which binds us, contract whose drafting was proposed by Pascal Bernard himself and which should be the sole point of reference. We do not ask Pascal Bernard for lateness penalties. We are ready to pay him the balance immediately. We provided him with all the supporting documents. We agree to pay him on the reprint 1.5 version upon delivery under the same conditions, the same percentage of the Net Turnover Excluding Tax. We therefore request that Pascal Bernard abandons his prosecution once he has been paid. We are open to discussion and possibly to a mediation.

How does this affect you

Please note that you are not affected in any way. It is important to know that Kickstarter will not ask us for a refund and will not prevent us from delivering the game. In the meantime, we continue to work on Time of Legends: Joan of Arc, just as initially planned. We will continue to send you revised scenarios and details on the progress of the project. Overall we will deliver our current games as planned, the next on the list being Reichbusters, which will be on the boat before the Chinese New Year, January 21. The Joan of Arc reprint is well on track and we aim to deliver it as planned in October.

We would like to thank you all for your trust and the love that you have shown for this project. We are truly blessed to have supportive backers like you to our journey in this industry. From our part we commit ourselves to providing you with the best games made that will give you a mythic experience.
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databoy01 wrote:
I would hope that Mr. Pascal Bernard, would respond to this, as I am always one that likes to hear both sides. Possibly he would comment on this post regarding this update. I love the game and I hope for an agreement that both sides find fair and amicable.

Mythic Games wrote:

Joan of Arc 1.5 Update 57 1/3/20

Dear backers,

As you may have noticed, our Kickstarter page for Time of Legends: Joan of Arc 1.5 has been “frozen” since December 16, 2019. We did everything we could to try and resolve this problem amicably before it went public, but unfortunately, we couldn’t do it despite all our efforts.

Before going any further, it should be noted that we are very confident in the upcoming resolution of this issue, since we are advised by a very good lawyer, who is specializing in this field and has worked with the biggest game publishers. We have also discussed with fellow publishers, who have given us good advice and also share the same confidence with us.

A summary of the problem

Pascal Bernard is suing Mythic Games for non-payment of part of his royalties, and therefore requests the cancellation of the contract which binds us to him. Mythic Games, from their part, are simply asking Pascal Bernard to establish an invoice of the right amount to pay him the balance of what they owe him.

According to the contract, it was agreed that Pascal Bernard would receive the balance of his remuneration after the final delivery of the game. The contract specifies that Pascal Bernard will receive a percentage of the Net Turnover Excluding Tax. When the game was delivered at the end of the summer, Pascal Bernard sent us an incorrect invoice based on the amount displayed by Game on Tabletop to which he applied this percentage directly. We dispute the basis of his calculation since the percentage was not applied to the Net Turnover Excluding Tax.

To give you a simple example, the shipping costs paid by the backers shouldn’t be part of a turnover on which Pascal Bernard can ask for royalties, it is the same for taxes or customs fees, etc.

How should we calculate the remuneration base?

One of Pascal Bernard's challenges concerns the remuneration base.

The contract mentions that this remuneration relates to the net turnover excluding taxes (cf. article 10 of the contract) for “the work”. Let’s go back to the definition of Net Turnover Excluding Tax:

- Net: means that fees and royalties must be withdrawn. These as an example are the amounts collected by Kickstarter and Game On Tabletop.

- Turnover: this is the amount of total sales made and actually collected by Mythic Games. This amount is lower than the amount displayed on Kickstarter because some transactions are not successful (expired credit cards, unfunded bank accounts, refund requests ...).

- Excluding Tax: means taxes must be excluded. Therefore, VAT and other comparable taxes must be withdrawn.

Other elements to take into account:

- The card sleeves are not branded « Time of Legends: Joan of Arc », these are generic game accessories that we sold as intermediaries during the Pledge Manager, they therefore do not have to be included in the calculation of net sales.

- Mythic Games sold the Time of Legends: Joan of Arc role-playing game during the same Kickstarter as the board game but on behalf of another publisher. According to the agreement with the role playing game publisher, Mythic Games' remuneration for the role-playing game is a percentage of the margin achieved on this game. Mythic Games therefore collected a certain amount for the role-playing publisher during the Kickstarter of the board game, but the final sum that Mythic Games actually cashed for this role-playing game, the one that counts for the base calculation on which the royalty percentage should apply, is much lower.

The position of Mythic Games

We work with many authors who are all happy to work with us. We have always paid them, on the games that we published and delivered, on those being delivered and even on the games in preparation for this year. We have always paid the agreed amounts and had good relations with all our service providers and partners.

In this case, we are sticking to the contract which binds us, contract whose drafting was proposed by Pascal Bernard himself and which should be the sole point of reference. We do not ask Pascal Bernard for lateness penalties. We are ready to pay him the balance immediately. We provided him with all the supporting documents. We agree to pay him on the reprint 1.5 version upon delivery under the same conditions, the same percentage of the Net Turnover Excluding Tax. We therefore request that Pascal Bernard abandons his prosecution once he has been paid. We are open to discussion and possibly to a mediation.

How does this affect you

Please note that you are not affected in any way. It is important to know that Kickstarter will not ask us for a refund and will not prevent us from delivering the game. In the meantime, we continue to work on Time of Legends: Joan of Arc, just as initially planned. We will continue to send you revised scenarios and details on the progress of the project. Overall we will deliver our current games as planned, the next on the list being Reichbusters, which will be on the boat before the Chinese New Year, January 21. The Joan of Arc reprint is well on track and we aim to deliver it as planned in October.

We would like to thank you all for your trust and the love that you have shown for this project. We are truly blessed to have supportive backers like you to our journey in this industry. From our part we commit ourselves to providing you with the best games made that will give you a mythic experience.

Honestly, this seems to be very straight forward if you ask me. They spelled it all out in pretty much bare basic language.
While I would agree that its always good to hear both sides... I fail to see how his side will change the narrative.

He is being greedy, and instead of working with the company he decided to get flashy and put pressure on mythic. Which has back fired, in my opinion, because now everyone knows what is going on and unless he can really find some way of proving and backing up some other narrative... then it will be his reputation and career on the line going forward.

Because I guarantee everything Mythic said is completely truthful and backed with evidence, lawyers are great at prepping stuff like this for public consumption.
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SlayerofWorlds wrote:


Honestly, this seems to be very straight forward if you ask me. They spelled it all out in pretty much bare basic language.
While I would agree that its always good to hear both sides... I fail to see how his side will change the narrative.

He is being greedy, and instead of working with the company he decided to get flashy and put pressure on mythic. Which has back fired, in my opinion, because now everyone knows what is going on and unless he can really find some way of proving and backing up some other narrative... then it will be his reputation and career on the line going forward.

Because I guarantee everything Mythic said is completely truthful and backed with evidence, lawyers are great at prepping stuff like this for public consumption.
So because you are ok with only hearing one side of the story, everyone also should be ok with that? I’m glad you trust Mythic, me I like information, good, bad or indifferent. It’s real easy to throw someone else under the bus with a nicely worded status update. I like facts. Facts from both sides before I make a decision.
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SlayerofWorlds wrote:
databoy01 wrote:
I would hope that Mr. Pascal Bernard, would respond to this, as I am always one that likes to hear both sides. Possibly he would comment on this post regarding this update. I love the game and I hope for an agreement that both sides find fair and amicable.

Mythic Games wrote:

Joan of Arc 1.5 Update 57 1/3/20

Dear backers,

As you may have noticed, our Kickstarter page for Time of Legends: Joan of Arc 1.5 has been “frozen” since December 16, 2019. We did everything we could to try and resolve this problem amicably before it went public, but unfortunately, we couldn’t do it despite all our efforts.

Before going any further, it should be noted that we are very confident in the upcoming resolution of this issue, since we are advised by a very good lawyer, who is specializing in this field and has worked with the biggest game publishers. We have also discussed with fellow publishers, who have given us good advice and also share the same confidence with us.

A summary of the problem

Pascal Bernard is suing Mythic Games for non-payment of part of his royalties, and therefore requests the cancellation of the contract which binds us to him. Mythic Games, from their part, are simply asking Pascal Bernard to establish an invoice of the right amount to pay him the balance of what they owe him.

According to the contract, it was agreed that Pascal Bernard would receive the balance of his remuneration after the final delivery of the game. The contract specifies that Pascal Bernard will receive a percentage of the Net Turnover Excluding Tax. When the game was delivered at the end of the summer, Pascal Bernard sent us an incorrect invoice based on the amount displayed by Game on Tabletop to which he applied this percentage directly. We dispute the basis of his calculation since the percentage was not applied to the Net Turnover Excluding Tax.

To give you a simple example, the shipping costs paid by the backers shouldn’t be part of a turnover on which Pascal Bernard can ask for royalties, it is the same for taxes or customs fees, etc.

How should we calculate the remuneration base?

One of Pascal Bernard's challenges concerns the remuneration base.

The contract mentions that this remuneration relates to the net turnover excluding taxes (cf. article 10 of the contract) for “the work”. Let’s go back to the definition of Net Turnover Excluding Tax:

- Net: means that fees and royalties must be withdrawn. These as an example are the amounts collected by Kickstarter and Game On Tabletop.

- Turnover: this is the amount of total sales made and actually collected by Mythic Games. This amount is lower than the amount displayed on Kickstarter because some transactions are not successful (expired credit cards, unfunded bank accounts, refund requests ...).

- Excluding Tax: means taxes must be excluded. Therefore, VAT and other comparable taxes must be withdrawn.

Other elements to take into account:

- The card sleeves are not branded « Time of Legends: Joan of Arc », these are generic game accessories that we sold as intermediaries during the Pledge Manager, they therefore do not have to be included in the calculation of net sales.

- Mythic Games sold the Time of Legends: Joan of Arc role-playing game during the same Kickstarter as the board game but on behalf of another publisher. According to the agreement with the role playing game publisher, Mythic Games' remuneration for the role-playing game is a percentage of the margin achieved on this game. Mythic Games therefore collected a certain amount for the role-playing publisher during the Kickstarter of the board game, but the final sum that Mythic Games actually cashed for this role-playing game, the one that counts for the base calculation on which the royalty percentage should apply, is much lower.

The position of Mythic Games

We work with many authors who are all happy to work with us. We have always paid them, on the games that we published and delivered, on those being delivered and even on the games in preparation for this year. We have always paid the agreed amounts and had good relations with all our service providers and partners.

In this case, we are sticking to the contract which binds us, contract whose drafting was proposed by Pascal Bernard himself and which should be the sole point of reference. We do not ask Pascal Bernard for lateness penalties. We are ready to pay him the balance immediately. We provided him with all the supporting documents. We agree to pay him on the reprint 1.5 version upon delivery under the same conditions, the same percentage of the Net Turnover Excluding Tax. We therefore request that Pascal Bernard abandons his prosecution once he has been paid. We are open to discussion and possibly to a mediation.

How does this affect you

Please note that you are not affected in any way. It is important to know that Kickstarter will not ask us for a refund and will not prevent us from delivering the game. In the meantime, we continue to work on Time of Legends: Joan of Arc, just as initially planned. We will continue to send you revised scenarios and details on the progress of the project. Overall we will deliver our current games as planned, the next on the list being Reichbusters, which will be on the boat before the Chinese New Year, January 21. The Joan of Arc reprint is well on track and we aim to deliver it as planned in October.

We would like to thank you all for your trust and the love that you have shown for this project. We are truly blessed to have supportive backers like you to our journey in this industry. From our part we commit ourselves to providing you with the best games made that will give you a mythic experience.

Honestly, this seems to be very straight forward if you ask me. They spelled it all out in pretty much bare basic language.
While I would agree that its always good to hear both sides... I fail to see how his side will change the narrative.

He is being greedy, and instead of working with the company he decided to get flashy and put pressure on mythic. Which has back fired, in my opinion, because now everyone knows what is going on and unless he can really find some way of proving and backing up some other narrative... then it will be his reputation and career on the line going forward.

Because I guarantee everything Mythic said is completely truthful and backed with evidence, lawyers are great at prepping stuff like this for public consumption.
I think it's more likely that he's looking at a large disparity between to numbers showing on kickstarter and the pledge manager and the adjusted numbers Mythic is giving him and is questioning how accurate Mythic's numbers are.


For example, in the current kickstarter Mythic is claiming that their fulfilment company is charging them $15 to ship a 2oz package within the US. I very much question the truth of that claim. If the designer is seeing similar numbers to that I don't think him questioning Mythic's claims is necessarily out of greed.
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Roland Bruno
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Facts, schmacts. We go on the feels nowadays.
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Wolvercote wrote:
Facts, schmacts. We go on the feels nowadays.
Exactly. As noted here and on the Kickstarter. A guess hoping something isn’t true makes it a fact for some...
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databoy01 wrote:

SlayerofWorlds wrote:


Honestly, this seems to be very straight forward if you ask me. They spelled it all out in pretty much bare basic language.
While I would agree that its always good to hear both sides... I fail to see how his side will change the narrative.

He is being greedy, and instead of working with the company he decided to get flashy and put pressure on mythic. Which has back fired, in my opinion, because now everyone knows what is going on and unless he can really find some way of proving and backing up some other narrative... then it will be his reputation and career on the line going forward.

Because I guarantee everything Mythic said is completely truthful and backed with evidence, lawyers are great at prepping stuff like this for public consumption.
So because you are ok with only hearing one side of the story, everyone also should be ok with that? I’m glad you trust Mythic, me I like information, good, bad or indifferent. It’s real easy to throw someone else under the bus with a nicely worded status update. I like facts. Facts from both sides before I make a decision.

So you think he should get royalties from shipping costs?
So you think he should get royalties from card sleeves?

Really, Mythic wouldn't use those examples unless he was trying to get money from those sales. Which is stupid in my opinion, and I don't see any argument from him changing my mind.

I would understand the RPG book. That might be a little point of contention because of unique nature of that product. But again, its hardly going to be hard for mythic to prove that they only received X amount of money for "license".
Seems like a lot of trouble to go through, unless it sold way better then I thought it did.

But IP dispute with KS, that was just stupid move.
 
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If he has officially brought a suit against them, outside of Kickstarter, I doubt his side would make any sort of statement bearing details until legal action is decided.
 
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cormor321 wrote:


I think it's more likely that he's looking at a large disparity between to numbers showing on kickstarter and the pledge manager and the adjusted numbers Mythic is giving him and is questioning how accurate Mythic's numbers are.


For example, in the current kickstarter Mythic is claiming that their fulfilment company is charging them $15 to ship a 2oz package within the US. I very much question the truth of that claim. If the designer is seeing similar numbers to that I don't think him questioning Mythic's claims is necessarily out of greed.

Valid thought, but from a law point it would pointless. You can not receive royalties from shipping costs. Which, even if high, are clearly what these costs are. So it would be nearly impossible to justify in court.
 
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SlayerofWorlds wrote:
databoy01 wrote:

SlayerofWorlds wrote:


Honestly, this seems to be very straight forward if you ask me. They spelled it all out in pretty much bare basic language.
While I would agree that its always good to hear both sides... I fail to see how his side will change the narrative.

He is being greedy, and instead of working with the company he decided to get flashy and put pressure on mythic. Which has back fired, in my opinion, because now everyone knows what is going on and unless he can really find some way of proving and backing up some other narrative... then it will be his reputation and career on the line going forward.

Because I guarantee everything Mythic said is completely truthful and backed with evidence, lawyers are great at prepping stuff like this for public consumption.
So because you are ok with only hearing one side of the story, everyone also should be ok with that? I’m glad you trust Mythic, me I like information, good, bad or indifferent. It’s real easy to throw someone else under the bus with a nicely worded status update. I like facts. Facts from both sides before I make a decision.

So you think he should get royalties from shipping costs?
So you think he should get royalties from card sleeves?

Really, Mythic wouldn't use those examples unless he was trying to get money from those sales. Which is stupid in my opinion, and I don't see any argument from him changing my mind.

I would understand the RPG book. That might be a little point of contention because of unique nature of that product. But again, its hardly going to be hard for mythic to prove that they only received X amount of money for "license".
Seems like a lot of trouble to go through, unless it sold way better then I thought it did.

But IP dispute with KS, that was just stupid move.
Did Pascal tell you that was his issue??

No Mythic did. See there, that is the issue. Only half the argument is present. Maybe it is the case. Maybe that was their guess on what he is basing his net proceeds from. We don’t freaking know. But you’ve made up your mind because you like Mythic. Well guess what I like them too. Doesn’t mean I still don’t want to hear all the facts though like you have settled with some facts.
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Of course he shouldn’t get royalties for shipping. But the dispute might very well be - how much money did MG collect for shipping and sleeves and such, and does he trust these numbers.

And he won’t explain this stuff to us, why should he, this will be discussed between the parties, their lawyers and possibly a court.
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SlayerofWorlds wrote:
cormor321 wrote:


I think it's more likely that he's looking at a large disparity between to numbers showing on kickstarter and the pledge manager and the adjusted numbers Mythic is giving him and is questioning how accurate Mythic's numbers are.


For example, in the current kickstarter Mythic is claiming that their fulfilment company is charging them $15 to ship a 2oz package within the US. I very much question the truth of that claim. If the designer is seeing similar numbers to that I don't think him questioning Mythic's claims is necessarily out of greed.

Valid thought, but from a law point it would pointless. You can not receive royalties from shipping costs. Which, even if high, are clearly what these costs are. So it would be nearly impossible to justify in court.
Unless his contention is in regards to what his net is. If they are profiting on the shipping (which most companies do), and they have a contract that says 12% of all profits. Guess what he is due that whether you and I agree on It or not.

The problem with this whole issue is that fact we only know Mythic’s side. Everyone is willing to just discount Mr. Bernard saying he is being greedy because of what Mythic is saying in their update.
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I heard that this issue between the author and Mythic games dates back to july.
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I think it's probably something more like he wants to be paid minus actual shipping costs vs. what they charged in the pledge manager (or vice-versa).
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It’s kind of interesting because it’s been obvious this year that companies have been hiding costs in shipping. This seems little different then movie companies charging themselves rent and marketing when we’re dealing with contracting. I don’t why they announced that they’re going to win hands down and have the very best lawyers and the very smartest friends. It sounds like that a judge wouldn’t throw this out without looking at it.



One thing to mention is how cmon removes branded content into its own fully contained thing for their kickstarters to avoid the legal issue of selling off brand addons to people during a campaign. Imagine if you had a license to sell lakers jerseys at the arena, and you brought your own purple and yellow blank hats to sell next to them.

Cmon kept night of the living dead out of zombicide 2s campaign to not run into this issue.
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SlayerofWorlds wrote:
cormor321 wrote:


I think it's more likely that he's looking at a large disparity between to numbers showing on kickstarter and the pledge manager and the adjusted numbers Mythic is giving him and is questioning how accurate Mythic's numbers are.


For example, in the current kickstarter Mythic is claiming that their fulfilment company is charging them $15 to ship a 2oz package within the US. I very much question the truth of that claim. If the designer is seeing similar numbers to that I don't think him questioning Mythic's claims is necessarily out of greed.

Valid thought, but from a law point it would pointless. You can not receive royalties from shipping costs. Which, even if high, are clearly what these costs are. So it would be nearly impossible to justify in court.
.

I can see two way it could work in court. The fist would be an easy one to solve one way or the other. Is Mythic deducting their actual shipping costs as billed to them or the amount they are charging as billed to backers? If they are deducting what they billed to backers rather than what they were billed the designer might have a case. The second would be if they actually are paying their shipping company $15 to ship a 2oz package he could argue it's a misappropriation of funds and that Mythic is overpaying on shipping diverting profits that should have royalties applied to them. That's not to say either of those argument would definitely win in court, but they aren't things a judge would throw out without going through the process. They would also be valid reason to challenge Mythic that don't actually contradict anything in Mythic's statement.
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databoy01 wrote:


Did Pascal tell you that was his issue??

No Mythic did. See there, that is the issue. Only half the argument is present. Maybe it is the case. Maybe that was their guess on what he is basing his net proceeds from. We don’t freaking know. But you’ve made up your mind because you like Mythic. Well guess what I like them too. Doesn’t mean I still don’t want to hear all the facts though like you have settled with some facts.
What Mythic posted is now a matter of public knowledge and because of that it is useable in court against them. They can not unring the bell.
They would not post it if it was not true, because it could be used against them in court. They would not say it unless it was part of the dispute, because again it could be used against them in court.

Pascal started all of this with the useless IP dispute on KS. He was trying to cause problems for Mythic, hoping to generate backer back lash and force an out of court settlement more to his liking.

It doesn't take any one hugely versed in law to put two and two together.
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SlayerofWorlds wrote:
databoy01 wrote:


Did Pascal tell you that was his issue??

No Mythic did. See there, that is the issue. Only half the argument is present. Maybe it is the case. Maybe that was their guess on what he is basing his net proceeds from. We don’t freaking know. But you’ve made up your mind because you like Mythic. Well guess what I like them too. Doesn’t mean I still don’t want to hear all the facts though like you have settled with some facts.
What Mythic posted is now a matter of public knowledge and because of that it is useable in court against them. They can not unring the bell.
They would not post it if it was not true, because it could be used against them in court. They would not say it unless it was part of the dispute, because again it could be used against them in court.

Pascal started all of this with the useless IP dispute on KS. He was trying to cause problems for Mythic, hoping to generate backer back lash and force an out of court settlement more to his liking.

It doesn't take any one hugely versed in law to put two and two together.
What is truth?
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That update has more holes than my pound of Swiss cheese in the fridge.
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SlayerofWorlds wrote:
databoy01 wrote:


Did Pascal tell you that was his issue??

No Mythic did. See there, that is the issue. Only half the argument is present. Maybe it is the case. Maybe that was their guess on what he is basing his net proceeds from. We don’t freaking know. But you’ve made up your mind because you like Mythic. Well guess what I like them too. Doesn’t mean I still don’t want to hear all the facts though like you have settled with some facts.
What Mythic posted is now a matter of public knowledge and because of that it is useable in court against them. They can not unring the bell.
They would not post it if it was not true, because it could be used against them in court. They would not say it unless it was part of the dispute, because again it could be used against them in court.

Pascal started all of this with the useless IP dispute on KS. He was trying to cause problems for Mythic, hoping to generate backer back lash and force an out of court settlement more to his liking.

It doesn't take any one hugely versed in law to put two and two together.
I agree that what you're saying most probably is true. Still, I would like the other side's statement.
 
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databoy01 wrote:


Unless his contention is in regards to what his net is. If they are profiting on the shipping (which most companies do), and they have a contract that says 12% of all profits. Guess what he is due that whether you and I agree on It or not.

The problem with this whole issue is that fact we only know Mythic’s side. Everyone is willing to just discount Mr. Bernard saying he is being greedy because of what Mythic is saying in their update.
Actually, no he would never be allowed to collect that money at all.

Shipping costs are billed as shipping costs, whether they profit off of them or not has no baring. Mythic clearly charged them as shipping costs, and backers paid clearly for shipping costs.

You can not collect royalties on shipping costs. Even if the profit on them. In this case, "shipping" would be like its own product that Mythic charged for, a separate product that has nothing to do with the boardgame. It is exactly like the sleeves, a product they sold during the kickstarter but was not part of the IP in question.

Again, this update is now part of the public domain. Everything they say in it could be used against them in court. So they would not put anything in it that they could not prove.
 
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Your two issues sleeves and shipping.

Mythic said he isn’t due royalties on those

We don’t know what his contract states. Although if he is suing for that I would presume that he has a contract for all net profits. Which then a judge might or might not agree with his suit. All according to the language of the contract and if it’s for all net profit of the project.

What mythic said in the update is how they perceive the contract. How Pascal and his lawyers read it could be 180 degrees in the opposite direction.

Who is right is why it has to go to court. Ever sit in the local county courthouse? It’s packed with these type cases. How would I know? Small business owner for over 18 years. What is considered profit is very vague to say the least.
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SlayerofWorlds wrote:
databoy01 wrote:


Unless his contention is in regards to what his net is. If they are profiting on the shipping (which most companies do), and they have a contract that says 12% of all profits. Guess what he is due that whether you and I agree on It or not.

The problem with this whole issue is that fact we only know Mythic’s side. Everyone is willing to just discount Mr. Bernard saying he is being greedy because of what Mythic is saying in their update.
Actually, no he would never be allowed to collect that money at all.

Shipping costs are billed as shipping costs, whether they profit off of them or not has no baring. Mythic clearly charged them as shipping costs, and backers paid clearly for shipping costs.

You can not collect royalties on shipping costs. Even if the profit on them. In this case, "shipping" would be like its own product that Mythic charged for, a separate product that has nothing to do with the boardgame. It is exactly like the sleeves, a product they sold during the kickstarter but was not part of the IP in question.

Again, this update is now part of the public domain. Everything they say in it could be used against them in court. So they would not put anything in it that they could not prove.
This is laughable. Have you seen their contract? Who is to say it’s not part of it? You assume way too much.
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Who friggen cares who is owed what? Seriously. This has no impact on us what-so-ever. Its great that there is transparency. Better than any corporate company. Move on.
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Worst case scenario: Mythic's funds get tied up in court proceeding. Mr. Bernard has a valid claim regarding shipping/sleeves/whatever, and collects money that would have gone towards production. Other designers of Mythic games take note, and also sue.

Potential Up Front situation, if you ask me. I think you're foolish if you give them more money in the pledge manager before this is resolved.
 
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