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Falsche FuFFziger» Forums » General

Subject: Unclear Auction Mechanic rss

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Gil Hova
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The first time I played Falsche Fuffziger, it was with incorrect rules for the gem auctions. We tried the correct ruleset today, and we immediately ran into a problem. The rulebook is quite unclear about the process of a rare coin auction.

According to the English translation of the rules on the 'geek, the player with the start die selects a denomination of counterfeit money, or an amount of real money. The player to his left must match the amount exactly, or drop out. We keep going around until everyone has had a chance. Then the start die moves one player to the left, and the new start player picks a new denomination. The auction process continues until all players but one have dropped out. The winning player pays all the money he bid (multiple denominations) to the bank, and takes the coins.

Two big problems here. First, when the start die passes, does it go to someone who's not in the auction anymore? That doesn't make sense.

Secondly, if everyone has the same amount of money in the same denominations, each player could match everyone's bid. This is quite likely in the first auction, when no one has any real money yet. Multiple players will be tied for the rare coin, and no one will have any extra money to break the tie. The rulebook makes absolutely no mention of this occurence.

Fortunately, we had a German-speaker playing the game. She looked at the original rules and found an error in our translation. In the German rules, players are allowed to EXCEED the gem bid, but they must stay in the same denomination.

This still didn't solve our tiebreaker problem, so we spent a few minutes and came up with this ruleset...

1) Start the auction by moving the staring die one player to the left. The player with the start die begins the auction by putting down at least one counterfeit bill of a single denomination, or a certain amount of real money.

2) The player to his left has the option to pass, call (match the bid), or raise (exceed the bid). If he calls or raises, he must use the same denomination as the first player.

3) Keep going around the table until everyone has had a chance to bid or pass. Once the die gets back to the first player, check to see if the bids on the table are of equal value (i.e. everyone has called).

4) If the bids are not of equal value, then the starting player (or if the starting player is no longer in the auction, the first player to his left who is in the auction) gets to call his bid to the new highest amount, or raise his bid past the highest amount. In this case, any player adding to his bid amount must stay in the same denomination. Keep going around the table. Of course, only players who have not passed remain in the auction.

5) If there is more than one bid on the table and all the bids are equal, move the start die to the nearest player on the left who is still in the auction. That player now selects a new denomination. Any money that was previously out on the table stays out on the table.

6) Keep going around as before, until all players have passed or called, or there is only one bid left on the table. At that point, that player pays his money to the bank and takes the rare coins. All other players get to keep the money they bid.

7) If players are out of money to bid with and there is more than one high bid, then the player with the starting die will win the tie. If none of the players in the auction have the starting die, then the player closest to the left of the player with the starting die will win the tie.

8) If there will be another coin auction, remember to start at step 1 above, moving the die one player to the left. Otherwise, the die stays with the same player.

Once we got these rules down, the game was quite fun!
 
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Phil Alberg
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Re:Unclear Auction Mechanic
IngredientX wrote:

Two big problems here. First, when the start die passes, does it go to someone who's not in the auction anymore? That doesn't make sense.


Yes, that's the way we play too. The die is only passed to someone who has remained in the auction.

Secondly, if everyone has the same amount of money in the same denominations, each player could match everyone's bid. This is quite likely in the first auction, when no one has any real money yet. Multiple players will be tied for the rare coin, and no one will have any extra money to break the tie. The rulebook makes absolutely no mention of this occurence.

Hmmm... I don't agree with your assertion that players will not have any extra money to break the ties in the first auction. Remember, the rules state that the first three coin cards do not trigger auctions. This is probably done to ensure that players have different quantitities of counterfeit money and a small stash of real money by the time the first auction commences. Admittedly, it's been a while since I last played, but I don't recall there being any problems with the auctions locking up.

Fortunately, we had a German-speaker playing the game. She looked at the original rules and found an error in our translation. In the German rules, players are allowed to EXCEED the gem bid, but they must stay in the same denomination.

This certainly adds a new twist to the auctions! So, if Player A starts with a bid of 3 fake 50's, Player B could then offer 4 fake 50's, potentially winning the auction if Players C & D have fewer than 4 50's (as there's no chance for Player A to increase his bid)? Something doesn't seem right about this...

- Phil
 
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Gil Hova
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Re:Unclear Auction Mechanic
Spielfreak (#45805),

First off, you're correct, we got a rule wrong. I missed the rule that says that the first three flipped coin cards do not trigger auctions. That will certainly help.

I think I was so proud to remember the rule that says only one inspector card is flipped in the first round, that I completely missed the rule about the first three flipped coin cards. Sadly, I even looked for this rule twice during the game, and couldn't find it. Perhaps I was blinded by the word EXCEPTION in big capital letters. :0

As far as the "meet or exceed," that is what our German friend assured us the original rulebook said. Perhaps the online translation reflects a new rules change.

I think our tweak that allows raising works okay as long as players who remain in the auction are given a chance to call to the new amount, or raise past it. It certainly gives weight to the decision at the end of a round to launder counterfeit bills for the standard price, or to hang onto them to try for a rare coin.

In any event, I'll try to Babelfish that section of the original rules tonight. It may not answer my question, but it might shed some light on the situation.

I hope to get this out onto the table again soon.
 
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Gil Hova
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Re:Unclear Auction Mechanic
All right, I just ran the German rules past a German-speaking co-worker of mine. He looked at the English translation on the 'Geek, and here's what we found...

First, the English translation is correct. If you wish to stay in the auction, you must match the bid in the SAME DEMONINATION. You can't exceed it.

However, according to my co-worker, if a player chooses to drop out of the auction, then the next available player must EXCEED the bid, or drop out!

Unfortunately, this sentence is omitted in the English rules.

This is a strange rule, but it seems to be the case.

A reminder to anyone reading this thread who will be playing this game for the first time:

- On the first turn, only one Inspector card during the Inspector phase. For the rest of the game, two are flipped during the Inspector phase, and an additional Inspector card is flipped if any machines go kaput while they're being upgraded.

- The first three coin auction cards DO NOT trigger auctions. We missed this rule in the above-mentioned game, and the coin auction rules fail miserably without it.

Enjoy!
 
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Christian Frank
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Re:Unclear Auction Mechanic
IngredientX wrote:
However, according to my co-worker, if a player chooses to drop out of the auction, then the next available player must EXCEED the bid, or drop out!

Unfortunately, this sentence is omitted in the English rules.


Hi,

just got the chance to play Falsche Fuffziger two weeks ago. I had two versions of the rule in my edition (both in German). Being a native speaker of German, I cannot agree with your co-workers interpretation (or there is a third set of rules ;-) ). In both of my rulesets, I couldn't find a sentence that says "you have to EXCEED the bid if a player droped out before you"!

We played the auctions the following way (and hopefully obeying the rules ;-) ):

The first player bids any amount of Falschgeld (BUT ONLY ONE DENOMINATION) or any amount of real money (BUT AT LEAST 5). To stay in the auction, every player has to put down the same amount of money in that denomination. After that, the starting player changes to the next player STILL PARTICIPATING in that auction. This player bids again any amount of Falschgeld (BUT ONLY ONE DENOMINATION) - she can bid the same denomination as in the round before - or any amount of real money. I think, if you bid real money AND real money was bid the round before, you have to start with at least 5 more than the last round (I am not quite sure, since my game is at home and I am at work...).

The game played very well but does not forgive mistakes you make...

Christian
 
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Gil Hova
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Re:Unclear Auction Mechanic
dschises (#49215),

It seemed like a weird rule to me. I just played it tonight, and we didn't play with the exceed rule. It worked just fine. Everything else, we played the way you described.

I agree with you; it is a fun game, but very unforgiving!
 
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